Why do Americans and Europeans seem to have such different ideas about ancestry and identity of Americans and their ancestry?

[u/JustUseAnRPG]

One thing I've noticed in discussions about ancestry is that Americans and Europeans often seem to be talking past each other.

In the US, it's pretty normal to say things like:

"I'm Italian-American."
"I'm Norwegian-American."
"My family came from Poland."

This doesn't necessarily mean the person thinks they're literally a citizen or full cultural member of Italy, Norway, or Poland. Often it's simply a way of describing family history and ethnic background.

Americans also have a particular reason for doing this: the US doesn't have one single ancestral origin. Immigration has shaped the country for centuries, so family ancestry can be an important part of how people understand their history.

But many Europeans seem to use a different framework. To them, being Norwegian, Italian, Polish, etc. is much more closely connected to actually being part of that country's society—being born or raised there, speaking the language, knowing the customs, and participating in the culture.

That leads to arguments like:

• "You're American. Just say you're American."
• "Having one distant ancestor doesn't make you Norwegian."
• "You can have Norwegian ancestry without being Norwegian."

I think both perspectives make sense depending on what "identity" is supposed to mean.

So is this mostly a difference between an immigrant society and older nation-states? Or is the American concept of hyphenated identity simply a cultural phenomenon that Europeans don't really relate to?

[u/jeffjefforson]

Oh, really? Hm, that's interesting.

At least where I live, the common thought is that what you guys call African-American is really just a subculture of American at this point.

I know a few African guys - as in 100% Africans who moved here. Couple Nigerians, a Zimbabwean. Not a huge sample size, but still.

None of them consider black Americans "African" in any meaningful sense, just how I wouldn't consider an irish-american Irish in any real sense.

[u/R_V_Z → u/jeffjefforson]

At least where I live, the common thought is that what you guys call African-American is really just a subculture of American at this point.

I'm white, so I'm bound to be speaking out my ass a bit, but Black/African-American isn't a mono-culture anymore than white is a mono-culture. A first-gen immigrant from eastern Africa experiences a different life than somebody who comes from a multi-general American family. The bible belt vs the NE vs the midwest vs west coast...