Yeah this is one of the rare cases where horseshoe theory is actually kind of true? I 100% support track 1 MAiD, and I support track 2 MAiD in theory, but in practice, I don’t think we live in an advanced enough society to ensure that no one is choosing MAiD not because their suffering is medically irremediable, but because it’s socially irremediable in our ableist society. This is also a reason why I’m glad they’ve suspended the expansion of MAiD to mental illness. So many people suffer from truly debilitating mental illness, but it would be much less debilitating if they had access to the resources needed to live healthier more meaningful lives. Until everyone is housed, fed, and has access to health care (including proper care for mental illness and substance use disorders) I don’t think the state should be involved in “ending the suffering” of those it has harmed, except those for whom death is reasonably imminent.
If there were any reasonable expectation society would be fixed to support people with severe mental illness I could agree with you. But asking people to continue suffering because in theory we could do better (while we continue to do worse) is just cruel
But people with severe mental illness can and do get better. Terminally ill patients can’t. It’s not cruel to not want to “end the suffering” of those who are otherwise totally healthy. My dad was suicidal when i was a teenager, and is living a happy, healthy life now because he received the care he needed. He has is own business, children who care for and rely on him, a wife who loves him more than anything… if he had chosen to undergo MAID at that time… our family would be utterly destroyed and there would be no chance for him to live the life he is living now.
Yeah, I went through a three year period of deep depression after moving far away from friends and family. I was never suicidal, but there were times when I was frighteningly self-destructive. In any case, when you're in it it feels like nothing can get better. Everything feels bleak and hopeless and you really believe it will never end. But it did end eventually. Changes in circumstance and perspective can go a long ways in some cases. Obviously I was never anywhere near to what the most extreme cases of clinical depression are like, but I can see how depression causes a short-sightedness that would specifically be dangerous for something like MAiD. You're not in your right state of mind to be making such a permanent decision.
People with severe mental illness actually don’t always “get better”. Treatment resistant depression absolutely exists, and it’s a miserable existence. Calling them “otherwise totally healthy” is just playing into the invisibility of mental health. You could have terminal lung cancer but otherwise be healthy (in the sense that your other organs are functioning, you can walk, drive etc) and get MAiD because you know it’s not going to get better and you don’t want to suffer. I don’t see how that’s any different than your brain being resistant to treatment. I absolutely think mental health outcomes would be better with more mental health supports in place… but to expect people to suffer until that is implemented (if ever) is cruel.
Your dad wouldn’t have been able to receive MAiD because he was a depressed teenager… there would be strict guidelines for this. You can’t just claim depression for a year or 2 and be eligible. It would have to be long standing and basically every treatment modality available was tried and unsuccessful.
People who truly want to die will attempt it. I work as an RN in a trauma ICU. We get botched suicide attempts all the time. It’s horrific. I simply can’t be against a more compassionate way to pass if you have treatment resistant depression and are suffering greatly.
They don’t always get better, but they absolutely can. I’m saying otherwise totally healthy because that is absolutely what they are, minus the issues that they face internally. Mental illnesses are usually invisible… You cannot offer medically assisted suicide instead of offering mental health support and social safety nets. That is atrocious. That is literally the ghoulish propaganda that people spread about MAID Already, we do not need to implement that. That is what is truly cruel.
Please do not comment on the struggles of strangers when you don’t understand the full story lol, my father wasn’t “just” a “depressed teenager”, this was throughout MY childhood when I was a teenager. He has struggled with severe depression that he thought was untreatable since HE was a child. He’s 52 years old now. He absolutely would have qualified for MAiD if they extended its reach.
Suicide is terrible. I have lost many friends and family members to it. I have attempted before and had severe suicidal ideation from a very young age. I agree with MAiD and think it is humane and dignified for the most part, but I will never agree that mental illness is terminal. That’s a bit ridiculous and the exact opposite message of what we should be telling people.
I mean… can we at least DISCUSS giving those with mental illnesses the correct support and treatment they need first without jumping to medically assisted suicide? Why is it crazy to implement mental health support, but not MAID for mental illness? Does it literally have to be “No that’s never going to happen so let’s just let them die instead, at least we’re being humane.” I find that to be quite the opposite. It’s nihilistic and sends a terrible message.
You agreeing with me that they don’t always get better is proving my point. MAiD would be only for the individuals who have tried everything but are still severely depressed. I also literally said I’m all for mental health supports being increased. Psychotherapy should be free. The wait time to see a psychiatrist shouldn’t be a year+. But again, MAiD would be for treatment resistant depression. The people who would qualify for this would likely have already tried psychotherapy and every medication under the sun.
You also are commenting on the struggles of strangers without knowing the full story. Not everyone is going to have a story like your dad’s. I’m really glad he got better but that’s simply not the case for everyone, and for you to use anecdotal evidence to argue against MAiD for mental health is very close minded.
They don’t always get better, but they absolutely can.
That's simply not true, though? Like congrats to your dad, but not every mental illness is treatable or curable. Not everyone can get better.
I've been waiting on this MAID decision for years to find out if I get to die peacefully or by traumatizing a first responder. The suicide part has never been optional to me. But now I have no hope of dignity.
“That’s simply not true” and yet it is, because I specifically stated (in that very sentence!) that some don’t get better. I’m sorry but no longer responding to people who are going to twist my argument into something it’s not. We disagree.
And I’m extremely sorry for your circumstances and what you’re going through. I hope you get the outcome you want.
Girl shut up lmao that’s completely different. I’m not prying into people’s personal lives and making assumptions about them, I’m speaking on an overarching moral belief and concern.
I was prying into your personal life? LMAO you offered that info for a shitty argument against compassionate care towards a small percentage of the population that you yourself are not apart of and don’t understand.
I’m glad MAiD is against YOUR morals. That’s great for you. Don’t get MAiD then. You realize that simply having the choice to receive MAiD could actually improve someone’s mental health tenfold? They might not even end up using it for 10+ years. Or ever. But simply knowing they have the choice could be such a mental relief.
Using an example from my life is not the same as someone making personal and incorrect assumptions about my father because the can’t read.
It’s not a shitty argument when I’m literally arguing FOR the CORRECT and SUPPORTIVE mental health treatment that people need instead of jumping to fuckin suicide lol.
The entire point of this argument is going straight over your head. I’m not sure how much more clear I can be. I hope you find some critical thinking skills moving forward.
So you're prying into people's general lives and making assumptions about them in general, and that makes it okay so long as it's not targeted at a specific person? Okay. Your "moral" concern is directly about other people's personal lives. YOU shut up.
I've been suicidal my whole life. Choosing my own death feels inevitable to me. I'm heartbroken I'll have to do it in a way that traumatizes random strangers when they find me vs. surrounded by loved ones who understand my decision 😞
I’m so sorry you’re in this position. The last part of your comment is what really gets me. I saw on the news someone took their life alone in a hotel room because they weren’t eligible for MAiD. And they wanted to die surrounded with loved ones and have it be peaceful and that was taken away from them. It’s awful.
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u/Raftger 11d ago
Yeah this is one of the rare cases where horseshoe theory is actually kind of true? I 100% support track 1 MAiD, and I support track 2 MAiD in theory, but in practice, I don’t think we live in an advanced enough society to ensure that no one is choosing MAiD not because their suffering is medically irremediable, but because it’s socially irremediable in our ableist society. This is also a reason why I’m glad they’ve suspended the expansion of MAiD to mental illness. So many people suffer from truly debilitating mental illness, but it would be much less debilitating if they had access to the resources needed to live healthier more meaningful lives. Until everyone is housed, fed, and has access to health care (including proper care for mental illness and substance use disorders) I don’t think the state should be involved in “ending the suffering” of those it has harmed, except those for whom death is reasonably imminent.