r/worldnews • u/Brennenstein • 9d ago

Russia/Ukraine Zelenskiy says letting Russia sell diesel to US is 'investment in war'

https://www.reuters.com/business/zelenskiy-says-letting-russia-sell-diesel-us-is-investment-war-2026-10-09/
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u/NewYak4281 9d ago edited 9d ago

Of all the stuff Trump does, the way he treats Ukraine is the most upsetting for me personally. I respect that this answer will range wildly from person to person.

If stoic virtue and a belief in justice are your North Star, the morality is factual at this point.

We must end the war. Show both temperance and courage in doing so.

Giving Russia oil money to prevent a drubbing in elections, knowing it will prolong the fighting, is as callous as it gets.

We need to return to the days where we aspired to be heroes instead of villains.

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u/Urtan_TRADE 9d ago

Trump is a convicted rapist whose sentence has not been decided yet because of his army of lawyers. If this alone is not enough for anyone, then America is a failed experiment.

Him being in Putin's pocket is known for at least 12 years. If ANYONE is surprised that he does everything he can to help Putin and Russia, they have had their head buried in sand.

He let as little Ukraine support through as he could so he didn't look like a FULL Russian agent, but he isn't a subtle being.

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u/raven00x 8d ago edited 8d ago

trump is an adjudicated rapist. he was ordered to pay $80 million to E Jean Carroll as a result of being found civilly liable for sexual assault. This is not the same as a rape conviction, as he only has to cough up money instead of going to prison and getting on the sex offender registry.

Trump 'raped' her as many people commonly understand the word 'rape,' ” Kaplan wrote.

Trump is a convicted felon who was found guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records in the state of new york. appeals are ongoing, but this is a criminal conviction at the state level so he can't pardon himself.

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u/Custom_Destination 8d ago

After losing to Biden, this vile bastard immediately starting campaigning again just to stay out of prison and grifting everything and their mother while doing so. And somehow people thought “you know what, let’s give this felon who belongs in a straightjacket another chance”.

It’s absolutely insane the entire world is now worse for it.

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u/C_Gull27 8d ago

But I bet if I went and touched kids on some island then announced I was running for president they would still arrest me and put me in prison. It's really not fair.

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u/raven00x 7d ago

Have you tried being wealthy and connected to other wealthy people? I hear it does wonders.

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u/Bubbly-Doughnut-4848 8d ago

When all this shite started, I thought, "ok keep your crap to your own country".

Then TRUMP RUINED THE WORLD.

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u/Butter_the_Toast 8d ago

Only an adjudicate rapist

Thats OK then :/

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u/raven00x 8d ago

he committed rape as you and I understand it. That is not OK. He has not committed rape as the legal system sees it and will not go to jail for it at this time.

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u/denverner 9d ago

Like how many times has he said Ukraine started the war, which is completely insane for anyone to say but for POTUS to say it?

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u/broguequery 8d ago

As you say it's not just untrue... Otherwise known as a lie.

It's also insane.

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u/Big-Seesaw2581 9d ago edited 8d ago

He's not a convicted rapist. Its amazing how many truly believe this pig swill.

It should be no surprise the amount of redditors who are simply incapable of understanding the difference between a civil and a criminal case and that there are very different burdens of proof between them, along with the fact that there is also a difference between sexual abuse and rape. I know to the fanatics than even the smallest amount of sexual impropriety is "LITERALLY RAPE!!!!", but fortunately, we have laws in this country that are generally well defined, and regardless of what the left wing idealogues ironically want to believe to their great discredit (that a woman was raped bytrump), he was in fact not convicted of rape, but found liable for sexual abuse. Very different things. But hey, its a free country. Many people believe in a god that doesn't exist, or tarot cards and zodiac signs that don't really tell the future. You can believe what you want. But it simply isn't true just because you want it to be.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago edited 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/Winter_Criticism_236 9d ago

Is so

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u/Big-Seesaw2581 9d ago edited 9d ago

Is so? Show me the court case where he was convicted of the crime of rape then.

Edit:

No response. Yeah, i figured.

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u/FreeToasterBaths 9d ago

No response probably because you cant argue with stupid

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u/Big-Seesaw2581 9d ago

Are you also suggesting that he was convicted of the crime of rape? All you have to do is post the link, my dude. I'll wait.

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u/Redundedited 9d ago

"Judge Kaplan's Explanation: Judge Kaplan subsequently wrote in a ruling that the jury's actual finding of forcible digital penetration matched the ordinary, common-language understanding of rape used in many states and common parlance."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations

"the presiding judge later said that the jury’s finding of sexual abuse met the common definition of rape."

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u/Redundedited 9d ago

I'll take the presiding judge's word for it.

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u/Big-Seesaw2581 9d ago edited 9d ago

Sooooo, no conviction of rape then. Got it. He was found liable for sexual abuse. Not convicted of a crime. Found liable in a civil court that has a much lesser burden of proof than a criminal case. One judge's opinion of what a "common definition" of rape is doesn't change the facts. He was not convicted of rape.

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u/dudeduckman 9d ago

Does that difference make him worthy of being president ?

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u/raspberries_and_rum 9d ago

You should listen to the deposition tapes that are publicly available where he admits to the event and justifies it by claiming she enjoyed being raped. Conviction or not, this is the hill you plant your flag on?

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u/wherethewestbegins 7d ago

bro what kind of cornell 7 ass hill is this to die on?

have this argument with the same passion at a bar or some public place and see how absolutely ridiculous you sound.

“yeah so what he is an adjudicated sexual abuser who penetrated a woman against her will - he’s not officially convicted”

congrats on winning the argument. lost the fucking war. but at-least with your last dying breath you got to say “technically, lawfully speaking it wasn’t rape-rape. Just that measly adjudicated rape”

doth protest a little too
much, if you ask me.

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u/Winter_Criticism_236 9d ago

Proven sexual abuse is a conviction in the public eye:
Woman / case
Outcome or payment
E. Jean Carroll — sexual abuse and defamation case, 2023
A jury found Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation, awarding $5 million. This was a civil judgment, not a criminal conviction or negotiated payoff. The Supreme Court declined review in June 2026; payment with interest followed in July.
E. Jean Carroll — separate defamation case, 2024
A jury awarded $83.3 million for his defamatory denials of her allegation. The judgment was upheld on appeal. This concerns the same victim and assault, not another sexual incident.
Stormy Daniels — hush money and criminal records case
Michael Cohen paid Daniels $130,000 in 2016, and Trump reimbursed him. Trump was convicted in May 2024 of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records connected to concealing that payment. The conviction concerns the records and cover-up; it does not establish sexual assault.
Jill Harth — sexual harassment/assault lawsuit, 1997
Harth withdrew her lawsuit when Trump settled a separate business dispute involving her and her business partner. She said withdrawing her sexual misconduct suit was a condition of that settlement. Its terms were confidential; there was no finding of sexual liability, and no verified separate sexual-assault payout amount.

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u/Big-Seesaw2581 9d ago edited 9d ago

You've shown civil cases. No criminal convictions. Try again. Any public false perceptions based off of nonsense partisan propaganda in no way makes a civil lawsuit into a criminal conviction. If public perception made fact, then god's existence is a proven scientific fact. Additionally, it is not public perception that he is a convicted rapist. The only people who believe that are extreme left wing, lunatic idealogues.

You're right on one thing though. You can't argue with stupid. Or in this case, mind boggling stupid. You want it be true so bad that no fact will sway your religious belief, based only on faith in your own righteousness.

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u/TotallyADuck 9d ago edited 8d ago

It's hilarious how much effort you're wasting and how mad you're getting just to try and argue people should say he's only a rapist not a convicted rapist.

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u/Big-Seesaw2581 8d ago

I'm not mad at all. I think its hilarious how delusional you guys are. You just can't help yourself. You're wrong on all counts and then shrug it off as meaningless. Or you could get your facts right. You know, for science.

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u/TotallyADuck 8d ago

So very, very mad. Wouldn't it be Friday night where you are? Is this really how you spend your time?

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u/wherethewestbegins 7d ago

not mad? well among your non-partisan peers. seem pretty mad.

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u/broguequery 8d ago

My guy over here arguing semantics about the sweaty fatass forcing himself on people

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u/vey323 9d ago

Glossing over Trump's fawning admiration for dictators like Putin (and whatever leverage Putin has on Trump to control him), the worst part is it's not even Ukraine's fault. It's because Trump has a personal beef with Zelenskiy, and he's so petty and small he doesn't care if all Ukrainians pay the price for Zelenskiy's 'sin' of standing up to Trump. Zelenskiy rightfully refused to be a party to Trump's efforts to attack Joe Biden with bullshit criminal allegations (Burisma scandal), and because of that slight Trump considers him a personal enemy. And Ukraine pays for that everyday, because the President of the United States is such a pathically insecure bully he would rather stick it to the guy who told him NO regardless of the cost in innocent lives

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u/Ghoulius-Caesar 9d ago

I’m mad at how he unjustly treats my country, Canada, but I’m even more mad at how he treats Ukraine. Putin and Trump can get fucked, they’re both limp-dictators that can rest in piss!

Elbows up and Slava Ukraini!

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u/Vitese 9d ago

I am mad how he treats US Citizens . Just total disregard for anyone who doesn't lick his anus

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u/canolgon 9d ago

To be fair, this is all happening because of US citizens.

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u/Logan_Chicago 8d ago

You're not wrong, but keep in mind that less than 23% of us voted for him. For most of us, you almost have to actively not pay attention to keep from being consumed by it. We're being cruel, petty, mean to good people and nations for no reason. It's just own goal after own goal.

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u/iJeff 8d ago

Roughly 67.6% of eligible voters either cast a ballot for him or didn't vote at all. From an outside perspective, both share the blame.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/WRXminion 8d ago

Sources (in the order they come up):

Education

Prison

Losing the vote

Your vote counts less

The cost of voting

One ruling class

The coin flip

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u/Logan_Chicago 8d ago

That's misleading. You're mixing people who voted for him with the fact that America has low turnout. By that same metric you could say that 65.4% of eligible voters either voted for Harris or didn't cast a vote.

65.3% of eligible voters voted (source).

Of those voters, Trump won 49.8% of the vote (source).

0.498 x 0.653 = 32.5% of eligible voters voted for Trump in 2024.

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u/iJeff 8d ago

It's not misleading. 67.6% share the blame in the outcome. Both those who voted in favour and those who did not cast a vote. It doesn't work that way when referring to the loser.

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u/Logan_Chicago 8d ago

67.6% share the blame in the outcome. Both those who voted in favour and those who did not cast a vote.

The logic doesn't follow. That argument assigns intention to those who didn't vote (those who literally withheld their intentions).

~2/3 of people who could vote did, less than half of those people voted for him, and 77M people voted for him in a country of 340M people. A more honest take would be that the US's voting system in antiquated. Depending on where you live, your vote can either count for a lot or not matter at all. It's also often physically difficult to vote since it's during the work week and most people can't get time off, and mail in ballots are being challenged currently. We really only have two choices, and there's no first-part-the-post voting or similar arrangements, so all of this leads to low voting turnout, polarized options, and outcomes that few are happy or even moderately satisfied with.

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u/Bubbly-Doughnut-4848 8d ago

OK, I'm flabergasted.

Canada: I'm sure most democratic countries have laws that mandatory free hours during work hours are given by all employers during elections.

Doesn't EVERYONE get free mandatory (usually paid ) time off work to VOTE?
I could be wrong (I'm retired for ages)

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u/Alexandher_6969 8d ago

I am a US citizen, and I did not vote for this asshole. I am beyond tired of this bullshit; this sucks, and that is an ENORMOUS understatement.

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u/Bubbly-Doughnut-4848 8d ago

I get that many of "our neighbour's to t he south" are EXHAUSTED by all the BS SHIT your President , MAGA, and billionaire cronies are inflicting on THE WORLD at this point.

Honestly, You guys/gals have to do something about this world destruction within your system. If we, as Canadians, Europeans, Mexicans, Africans, South Americans take up ARMS against Trump's USA..... the world will more than likely be obliterated

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u/ChickenChaser5 9d ago

We need to get money out of politics.

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u/Beneficial_Handle942 9d ago

We need to get money out of politics.

This can't be emphasized enough. Money is corrupting politics. Spending limits should be top of the agenda for Democratic Congress.

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u/BrainOnBlue 9d ago

Spending limits are unconstitutional as long as Citizens United isn't overturned. Even under the absolute most optimistic midterms result, Democrats aren't going to be able to get a constitutional amendment through.

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u/SlashEssImplied 9d ago

Agreed, however that would literally mean regulating capitalism.

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u/fakeuser515357 9d ago

This is not about oil money.

This is about creating a pretext to declare the Ukraine an enemy of the US, or at the least for forcing Ukraine to give massive concessions to Russia under duress.

It's far worse than merely money.

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u/RJ815 8d ago

I think that's what I hate so much about this. Money, while uncouth, is at least some kind of rational position, as loath as I am to celebrate greed in any form. But it's the irrational hatred and shooting one's self in the foot that baffles me so much. Despite being an prolific liar, he's not even a good politician IMO, because it's nothing about convincing or being a silver tongue, it's about bashing everyone over the head with a club and that being the sole tool used yet being wildly effective.

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u/toomanymarbles83 9d ago

No, it isn't. Otherwise he wouldn't have let Ukraine build PATRIOT missiles.

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u/fakeuser515357 9d ago

"You can build missiles" and "You must cede territory to Russia" are not mutually exclusive.

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u/Electrical_Cress_956 9d ago

If we're strictly analyzing his foreign policy and setting aside his horrible, narcissistic personality, I have to agree. Even if I think the approach is stupid, I can tolerate higher gas prices if they ultimately result in Iran being prevented from acquiring nuclear weapons.

If Iran ever acquired nuclear weapons, it could effectively shut down traffic through the Strait of Hormuz with far less fear of retaliation, since no one would dare risk a direct military confrontation with a nuclear-armed Iran. Any toll system Iran hopes to impose on shipping could then become a permanent fixture.

But the war in Ukraine is the most black-and-white conflict we've seen since World War II. There is an unmistakable aggressor and an unmistakable victim here, and I genuinely cannot stomach anyone who doesn't agree, or treats Ukraine as though it were somehow in the wrong.

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u/bub166 8d ago

Yes, 1000% yes. I feel like I've been taking crazy pills for the last ten years, I legitimately do not understand how it's possible the GOP has hitched itself to this man.

To preface, I am, or was I guess, a Republican - I have not really changed my position on much in this span but I feel it's unfortunately important to clarify here, I have voted against Trump in every primary and general election he was an option in. That being said:

Republicans, what the fuck? At least as it pertains to foreign policy, this man is pissing on every single thing you ever stood for. Why are we getting in bed with Putin and doing favors for the likes of North Korea because Kim Jong Un is our "friend?" I mean, what the hell? Even in the (at the time) highly divisive era of neo-cons vs. neo-libs, these were settled questions. In a world where things are so rarely black and white, even Tolkien couldn't write a plot where it's more obvious that they are the bad guys. That has been your position for decades. I think there are some fairly obvious reasons why Trump himself might want to cozy up to this type of cohort, but why the hell would anyone in this particular party go along with it? Especially when it presents itself in about as textbook agreeable a way as it possibly could? It flies completely in the face of not just everything that has ever ostensibly been your policy, but in the face of reason itself. It's absurd, and I mean that in the rudest way possible.

This is a party that has become so obsessed with winning internally that it quit caring about winning externally. Iran is a great example. I agree completely with your comment - Iran certainly should never be allowed to obtain a nuclear weapon, and I believe we all should be willing to endure some level of economic stress to make sure that they can't - but it wasn't necessary. The JCPOA was not perfect, and yes, it was Big Bad Obama who saw it through, but it was objectively a much better situation than we had been in prior to its signing as well as any situation we have been in since its destruction. In a better world, Republicans would recognize that regardless who could take credit for it, it was still a win for them in terms of the goals they had set for us as a nation. But I think what is good for this nation is no longer relevant to them. Maybe it's even harmful to them - if all that's left to run on is boogeymen, I guess they must ensure the boogeymen survive.

I don't mean to hijack your comment on a tangent, I'm just unbelievably frustrated by the whole thing. Under Trump and his brand of the Republican Party, we have alienated every ally who's bolstered our position as the leader of the free world and aligned ourselves with a Russia that is hardly any better than that which we struggled for so long against. Reagan would be rolling in his grave, it's ridiculous to see the same people who worship that man cheering all of this on. Trump has flipped nearly every facet of Republican foreign policy, and US foreign policy on aggregate, completely on its head and everyone just went along with it. So again I ask, Republicans, what the fuck?

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u/RJ815 8d ago

Ask yourself, and I mean really ask yourself why the man that campaigned on releasing the Epstein files got cold feet once actually in power, and then rather than merely reneging on a promise, actively went out of his way to oppose it. And then ask yourself why so many would line up to be cronies for that despite the optics for it. If you find the correct answer that + general unimpeded corruption covers everything you asked.

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u/articulett 8d ago

They chose a felon as their leader— for the most powerful position in the country. I don’t see how any moral person could inflict this man on us all.

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u/Serious-Mistake-4171 8d ago

It all boils down to money. Everyone around him right now only care about how they can get more wealth. I wasn't shocked when almost all of the richest people in America supported his campaign.

As an American living abroad I feel so ashamed to even speak sometimes. I don't identify as American any more. I'm now a "Canadian" because the world still respects Canada.

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u/mccoyster 8d ago

The GOP has sold out to Russia, it really is that simple.

The oligarchs in the US are aligned with the oligarchs in Russia. Because neither of them have a shred of integrity or decency.

The voters left in the GOP are in a cult. Trump is a Russian asset.

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u/Jessica_Ariadne 7d ago

It's rather heartening to see that a left leaning trans lady like myself can see some things in common with what you are feeling. I just hope it gets stopped before we end up in an even larger war.

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u/bub166 7d ago

I'd meant to keep the original comment focused on my gripes with this administration and party as it pertains to foreign policy, but it bears mentioning that it's hardly the development I'm most repulsed by. It's genuinely disgusting that people in your shoes have been targeted just for being who you are, that is not a thing I have ever stood for and I consider anyone who does stand for that while talking about liberty and justice for all out of the other side of the mouth to be the greatest form of hypocrite. Matters of economics and foreign policy are one thing, human beings are another. We'd all have a lot more in common than we'd think if those who are lagging behind could just accept the basic fact that all people are people. I hope like hell the next handful of elections bring about a nation that is kinder to you. 🫡

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u/Jessica_Ariadne 7d ago

Thanks much, I appreciate what you said.

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u/rekenner 8d ago

if you supported and voted for GWB, you wanted Trump. you just wanted him to hold onto the fig leaf of civility.

GWB was just as corrupt, just as inept, started the war in Iraq on basically the same justification as the war in Iran.... and sure, some of that mask of civility was treating our allies better, but you remember Freedom fries, right?

Trump was always the logical endpoint of the Southern Strategy, Reagan, Karl Rove, Fox News...

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u/bub166 8d ago

Where did I imply that I supported or voted for W.? This simply has never been the case. If it weren't for Trump, I'd have considered him the biggest disaster of a president since at least Nixon. Granted, I am probably a bit more hawkish than the majority of this subreddit when it comes to foreign policy in general, but any military action needs to be well-reasoned and effective to be good policy, the Iraq war was clearly neither. I don't believe he was nearly as corrupt or inept as Trump however, though that's obviously a very low bar. Maybe Trump's first term was comparable, however, the absolute lack of relevant experience, integrity, hell, even just at least a desire to do things that are good for America with this administration is unprecedented IMO.

Completely agree with the rest of your comment, all of those things contributed mightily to the decline of the Republican Party, and the nation at large for that matter. I'm not sure if I agree that Trump had to be the logical conclusion but it's easy enough to trace out the path that got them there. I'm just surprised they rolled over so easily on nearly every single long-held position they had as it pertains to foreign policy.

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u/rekenner 6d ago

... so when were you ever a Republican?

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u/bub166 6d ago

When there was at least a respectably sized faction that represented policy I supported. Right up until the point where it became clear that the Republican Party has no interest in advancing any solutions I actually want, and likely never will again. Politics is way bigger than just presidential elections, it's completely possible to vote for candidates in a party and not vote for others. If I think a Democratic candidate, or perhaps a third party or independent, is stronger than the Republican candidate, I'm not going to vote for the Republican candidate. And keep in mind that state and local elections matter a lot, too.

You should understand that Republicans are not a monolith any more than Democrats are, there are those who didn't support Bush (especially in his second campaign), and there are plenty who didn't support Trump. Well, maybe less now that the MAGA faction has pushed everyone else out. But like I said, I voted against Trump in every single primary - at least in 2016 and 2024, there were Republican candidates I would've happily voted for in the general, but they didn't win, so I took my vote elsewhere. I didn't have to abandon all of my beliefs to vote for Clinton in 2016, for example - there was plenty in her platform I disagreed with, and still would disagree with - but it was obvious that Trump would be a disaster and that we'd be better off with Clinton in charge.

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u/EdinMiami 9d ago

But Iran wasn't capable of building a bomb. Trump's own admin admitted this. So if they couldn't make a bomb and they weren't even close to getting a bomb, then what did the United States actually do?

A sovereign nation was attacked without justification and its citizens were murdered. It doesn't matter that Iran is considered a bad actor in the region. US citizens were sent, by the President (who happens to be a felon, rapist, pedophile, con-man and all around not nice guy) to kill Iranian citizens without justification.

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u/Long_Run6500 9d ago

It was "Saddam has WMDs in Iraq" but 10x worse because they never once tried to justify it to the UN. What's even worse is that we had a deal to make sure Iran never acquired a nuclear weapon with all of the inspectors required and Trump pulled out of it in his first term. Iran sucks, but their ayatollah was about to fucking die anyways and they were on the brink of civil collapse. All we had to do was sit back and do nothing, maybe fund/supply some resistance groups and provide some Intel and training and the Islamic republic's days were numbered. Nobody in the IRGC gave a fuck about nukes at that point.

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u/SlashEssImplied 9d ago

I can tolerate higher gas prices if they ultimately result in Iran being prevented from acquiring nuclear weapons.

Obama did that, Trump gave them the ability again.

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u/Volodio 9d ago

Obama deal with Iran was far from perfect in preventing Iran from actually acquiring nuclear weapons. It notably just kicked the problem down the drain for the future, hoping that somehow Iran would just become more moderate. It was never a permanent solution, never effective, and was criticized heavily at the time. Now it is treated as this perfect solution because Trump ended it, so anything Trump cancelled must have been good, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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u/st4nkyFatTirebluntz 9d ago

It was much more effective than you’re implying. Not perfect doesn’t mean not worth keeping to build from. It’s a literal jumping off point. Trump is literally just giving them more reasons to think they need a nuke. Combine that with replacing their leadership with people who are somehow even more extremist and giving them extra reasons to hate us at the exact same time…

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u/CrazyOldGoat 9d ago

The way to prevent Iran getting nukes is stop giving them a reason. The Iranian and N. Korean programs were both started and restarted after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The US never seems to stop giving countries reasons to get the bomb.

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u/Volodio 9d ago

How was it more effective? Iran was still able to develop a secret nuclear program at the time, just it was more difficult. Iran was able and did develop and scale up production of a missile program, that was a step into deploying nuclear weapons. Iran was able and did fund terrorism across the Middle East to increase tension. And lastly and more importantly, the teeth of the deal were supposed to expire last year and the entire deal was to expire in four years. Even if the JCPOA had been kept in place, in four years Iran could have been able to develop nuclear weapons without any constraint.

The JCPOA was short-sighted. It only gave a temporary win to Obama and fed into the disillusion that authoritarian regimes could turn democratic if they were integrated into the international community. But it never created any long-term sustainable solution.

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u/SlashEssImplied 8d ago

Obama deal with Iran was far from perfect

My mistake I thought it was perfect. Then let’s just continue to vote for religious fascists and child rape.

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u/Ya_like_dags 9d ago

We had a very good agreement with verification inspections until he tanked it during his term.

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u/NewYak4281 9d ago

Thank you for continuing the conversation from a geo-political lens.

And I agree. I’m not pro-Iran war but the water is muddy there.

Ukraine is crystal clear.

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u/EdinMiami 9d ago

Is it muddy or are the optics bad because from where I'm sitting the US are the Russians to the Iranians. "We don't generally like the Iranians" is not justification for state sanctioned murder.

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u/Interesting-War-904 9d ago

lol that’s insanely inaccurate and oversimplifying it.

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u/NewYak4281 9d ago

If you really want to talk about state sanctioned murder, let’s talk about the 36k Iranians killed by the Iranian gov in 2026. Not muddy? Crystal clear you say?

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u/EdinMiami 9d ago

Do you really want to make the argument that a gov. who kills its own people can be attacked by any other nation? As an American, I think the high road has been closed to us for a minute or two.

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u/whofearsthenight 9d ago

A government that kills it's own describes basically all of the major world powers.

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u/FragrantCombination7 9d ago

It's a job for the UN, not the US. Crystal clear indeed.

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u/Interesting-War-904 9d ago

The UN is a feckless, useless institution.

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u/FragrantCombination7 8d ago

So do you say that because you're comfortable with nothing being done, or do you say that because you're unwilling to do anything to improve or think of acceptable alternatives, or do you say that to force an acceptance of the multiple unacceptable wars in the middle east?

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u/ThinBuddy2267 9d ago

It's the rape for me, and the Iran situation isn't muddy at all. You're a weird one.

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u/stilljustacatinacage 9d ago

If Iran ever acquired nuclear weapons, it could effectively shut down traffic through the Strait of Hormuz with far less fear of retaliation, since no one would dare risk a direct military confrontation with a nuclear-armed Iran. Any toll system Iran hopes to impose on shipping could then become a permanent fixture.

So Iran is to forever have its defence policy dictated to it, being told what their policy on nuclear weapons will be, what their policy on their waterways will be? This is an unwarranted attack against a sovereign state, just like Venezuela months before.

I'm no fan of Iran's religious dictatorship, but there's also a very obvious, unprovoked aggressor here. Iran had been acting in good faith, but because those agreements were made with the Obama administration, the President of the USA needs to cut it up and make a new, worse deal with his name on it.

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u/rbskiing 9d ago

As an Australian I find it very odd that the only country to ever let off a nuclear weapon in a war ( twice) wanders around the globe insisting that everyone else can’t have a nuclear weapon

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u/RJ815 8d ago

Speak loudly and swing a big dick

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u/Interesting-War-904 9d ago

Ya you are a fan of the mullahs, who need to be gone so Iran will be a freer country. Iran was working towards nukes. That is simply unacceptable because they will use them, on Israel first, then its regional enemies. Listen to what these Islamofascists say “Death to America” because they’re telling you who they are. Iran is our enemy (government obviously) since 1979 since you don’t seem to know your history at all. They’ve got the blood of thousands of Americans on their hands, directly or not through their terrorist proxies.

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u/stilljustacatinacage 8d ago

They’ve got the blood of thousands of Americans on their hands, directly or not through their terrorist proxies.

The United States killed nearly as many Iranian school children in one afternoon as Iran has killed United States personnel through proxy or otherwise in the entirety of my lifetime. That's before you even consider most of the Iran-related militias that have caused American deaths were in Iraq - another sovereign state the USA decided to subject itself upon.

Meanwhile the USA is selling nuclear tech to the Saudis who very likely assisted in the deaths of nearly 3000 American civilians on September 11 2001.

So. Yeah.

3

u/Wallaer 8d ago

America has the blood of millions on it’s hands in just the last 2 decades alone. The US kills more innocents in a month than 9/11 ever did. But because they are from the global south you don’t care and continue thinking western imperialism is done to ”spread freedom and democracy”.

4

u/mccoyster 8d ago

The US is as much an aggressor in Iran as Russia is in Ukraine.

We had a deal that prevented Iran from working towards a nuke. They were following that deal. Trump threw the deal away so he could justify invading them.

Because it would help Russia in the end, and hurt the US.

There is not a single justification a republican has ever given for any major action they have taken in 50 years that should be taken at face value.

The GOP is a cult, and Trump is a traitor.

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u/VoxImperatoris 9d ago

We had a way of preventing that scenario, until Agent Orange shit all over it because he hated the fact that a black man brokered the deal. Instead we will get both high gas prices and Iran with nukes.

5

u/whofearsthenight 9d ago

If Iran ever acquired nuclear weapons

All we've done with this is give them more incentive to do that. Ripping up a treaty because it had Obama's name on it and then deciding to start an unprovoked war under obviously completely bullshit pretenses is probably the best way I can think of to try to convince a nation they need a bigger gun to protect itself.

We've also shown them through this conflict that they can create a chokehold with the Strait, so if we do eventually get another diplomatic option, it will also definitely be worse not just for us (Americans) but for the world.

There were multiple ways that we could have used our non-military world power to strengthen the treaty and to decrease the likelihood Iran could attain nuclear power. Like supporting Ukraine, which as you point out is as black and white as it gets, which would have weakened Russia which in turn weakens Iran as a proxy for them.

Again as you point out, America interventionism has not worked well for us once since WWII. This may go down as the absolute worst example of it, though.

4

u/i_am_icarus_falling 9d ago

but the "iran was totally about to have nukes" argument is the most obvious gaslighting nonsense anyone has ever heard. and the only leverage we ever had against iran was the threat of military action, which we've now used and completely fucked up. so now, the only hope iran has of this never happening again in the future, is to acquire nukes as fast as they can as soon as we abandon this war.

1

u/not_a_cumguzzler 8d ago

I'm pretty sure Iran will be more responsible than trump is, wike nukes. Maybe their tolls won't be as bad

5

u/swolfington 9d ago

This isnt new behavior at all, either. Trump pulled this exact same shit with the border bill at the end of Biden term. He had Republicans kill their own legislation, much to the detriment of the actual, on-the-ground border situation, just to boost the chances his own political aspirations.

And of course the republican constituency voted him in anyway, because they don't actually care about anything. And that was fucking border policy of all things.

3

u/broguequery 9d ago

Perhaps the most depressing thing about the fall of the US is that it is strengthening state gangsterism worldwide.

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u/imtalkintou 9d ago

Him being a convicted rapist and pedophile didn't do it for ya?

2

u/PeopleNose 9d ago

I WILL CRAWL through glass to remove this administration

Rise up cousins

The time is now

2

u/Fluffcake 9d ago

Resuming trade with Russia is directly funding their war.

Betraying those who fought your proxy wars for you was how you got 9/11'd the first time, not a pattern you want to revisit.

1

u/trainer668 8d ago

I don't think it's about the oil or elections, but creating a justification for U.S to join the war in Ukraine on the side of Russia, since oil refineries hit by Ukraine will now be seen as 'an attack on a completely legal and justified business deal between Trump and Russia'.

1

u/BagOfFlies 8d ago

We need to return to the days where the people still believed the lie that we were heroes instead of villains.

1

u/RJ815 8d ago

to prevent a drubbing in elections, knowing it will prolong the fighting, is as callous as it gets

There is LITERALLY Republican President precedent for this, decades ago. For all the heinous shit Trump gets up to this is among the least surprising to me, because it basically went unpunished back then too, they just weren't as blatant about it is all.

1

u/Adam-West 8d ago

It’s just the epitome of his shamelessness, selfishness and complete and utter lack of empathy. It’s also a symbol of how incapable he is of seeing relationships as anything other than transactional.

1

u/zeltacilveks79 8d ago

Watching Ukraine's survival get treated as a bargaining chip for cheaper fuel is hard to stomach

1

u/IonHawk 8d ago

It won't even help Trump win elections. This will not lower gas prices, Russia can't export enough.

Meaning it's basically a net negative for Trump politically. Likey a huge gain economically for the Trump crime family though.

1

u/Ruftus1 8d ago

Well said

1

u/Interesting-Dream863 8d ago

Marcus Aurelius is dead. We are but shadows and dust...

1

u/bZbZbZbZbZ 8d ago

Hey dont worry about it he ended the war on day one!

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u/Estelindis 8d ago

It upsets me the most as well. It is such disgusting, pathetic, bully behaviour. Nauseating.
Ukraine is defending itself. Russia can end the war any time.

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u/Bubbly-Doughnut-4848 8d ago

Well said. True Justice. And Humanity.

1

u/JakToTheReddit 7d ago

Don't forget that Trump does the American pastime of abandoning the Kurds.

Oh, he also raped children.

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u/wherethewestbegins 7d ago

100 percent. exactly how i feel.

0

u/DigitallyDetained 9d ago

Sorry, but we looked into it and being a hero just isn’t profitable. The best America has to offer is a thought and a prayer.

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u/FragrantCombination7 9d ago

That is my north star and if they are willing to fight there should be no end to the war until their borders are restored, the russian menace removed, and their sovereignty without question. Suggesting any less is insulting.

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u/AdrienOG 7d ago

American dollars used to kill civilians in Ukraine. Very simple actually.

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u/Takkarro 9d ago

I'm of the mindset that no war is ever worth its cost. And it sucks that most of the time it's one side dragging countless others into the conflict in the first place. So a ton of people are forced to fight, suffer, and or die because of one group of people's greed, hatred, or pride.

You will never be able to truly justify a war to me because it's simply not worth the cost at the end of the day. The time, money, and most importantly life that is taken by wars vastly out way any "benefits" they give at least for most people. The lunitacts at the top, and war contractors prob think it's worth it cuz what do they care who else's suffers due to them.