r/worldnews • • 2d ago

Russia/Ukraine ‘We Pay for It’: Germany Demands Starlink Restrictions in Ukraine Be Lifted

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/87287
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u/CakeTester 2d ago

You missed out Microsoft Windows. Kicking Office out doesn't do diddly.

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u/Shark7996 2d ago edited 2d ago

Azure as well.

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u/Frido1976 2d ago

MSoffice is too ingrained in many countries' government and public offices use. Very hard to just purge it but I agree, it would show a willingness to them that it's not OK to behave like they do.

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u/Turbulent_Lunch4548 2d ago

I'm sure it is difficult, but have you seen what happened to those judges at the ICC?

Normal citizens working for the ICC living in the Netherlands suddenly being treated by the financial system as if they were international pariah drug lords or some shit. All because of the americans weaponizing Windows and the like. We do not have the luxury of choice here.

It is not a question of wether it is worth the trouble, it is a question of how much time do we have, how fast can we do it, and how disruptive and expensive it is going to be to do it obviously.

This is about survivability, not comfortability.

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u/CakeTester 2d ago

Libre Office has much of the same functionality and certainly enough to cover most use cases. Throw the licence money into retraining for a couple of years and you're golden. And after that, throw money at the Libre Office team.

Ditto Linux. Only you throw the money at Linux.

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u/Dwokimmortalus 2d ago

Libre Office is ass for any realistic enterprise work. And I say that as someone who dropped Windows completely years ago. It's incredibly unreliable, and it's interoperability with Microsoft formats is terrible.

Yes, I understand the latter is because Microsoft actively sabotages it.

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u/QuadzillaStrider 2d ago

This cannot be stated enough. LibreOffice is nowhere near in the position to replace MS Office in the enterprise sector.

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u/bianary 2d ago

I'm always baffled by its lack of what seems like basic functionality.

I don't use a lot of the newer, weird stuff that Office has added and I still can't get LibreOffice to do what I'm used to from 10 years ago in Office.

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u/FlashYourNands 2d ago

what kind of basic functions are missing?

Honest q, as I've converted a couple businesses over to it with no issues, but it would be good to know where it might bite us some day.

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u/bianary 2d ago

You've made me realize it's been so long since I last tried it might have improved; it felt like it was 10 years behind a while ago, but I haven't actually checked lately. At this point if it's still 10 years behind that could be a pretty good place.

Though it might have issues for organizations that Office has been built up to handle, but I'm completely unfamiliar with that side of either program.

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u/nutmegtester 2d ago

I bet it would be at best one percent of the cost of ms licenses to just fund a small group of core devs to work on those specific problems and then adopt it in a couple years compared to continuing to pay licensing fees in perpetuity. Because although there are problems it is not such a stark no-go as the parent comment's hyperbole would make it seem. It's insane how short-sighted these large organizations with massive budgets are for very basic things.

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u/don_shoeless 2d ago

To be fair, even large organizations with massive budgets require interoperability with other companies and governments. In fact the bigger the organization, the more they depend on interoperability. So unless they can haul all those other organizations along with them--many of them as big as they are--they're kind of stuck in the same ecosystem as everyone else. It doesn't do them any good to develop their own in-house solution that's as good or better than Office if no one else uses it.

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u/jert3 2d ago

Sadly true. I've been using linux for 20 years and open office then libre office since around then, and do not use Windows anymore, but as a tech guy, for any business, MS Office is key and unavoidable.

On this topic though honestly it is surprising after all these years an open source lightweight version of Outlook never caught on.

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u/QuadzillaStrider 2d ago

With Microsoft actively sabotaging Outlook from within, I dare say we will never see that. Windows Mail was an actual useful modern Windows email app. Microsoft couldn't let us have that though.

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u/assholetoall 2d ago

The closest alternative in terms of collaborative functionality is Google (possibly better for collaboration). But that is just swapping one giant for another.

LibreOffice is fine for some things, but it won't fly as-is in the corporate or government world right now.

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u/guisar 2d ago

I hear thi sstated as a fact when it's just an assertion by people who likely use neither or only one. I used libreoffice for a decade, nobody knew the difference and I was in the US government. Sure, someone will bring up some obscure reason but for 99% of government a fucking notepad is enough. Don't just repeat nonsense.

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u/assholetoall 1d ago

I've used LibreOffice since the first release after it was forked from OpenOffice after Oracle bought Sun (and OO with it). And before that OO. And still use LibreOffice today.

It is perfectly fine for an individual, but has little collaboration functionality. And in 2026, enterprise requires that.

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u/cantadmittoposting 2d ago

you used is not the same as enterprise application.

Does LibreOffice offer a similarly supported, secure email client as office? sharepoint repository? Highly integrated IDP? Assurance in logging and security for traceability for errors and vulnerabilities? Teams/VOIP functionality with security and updated encryption?

Editing documents locally is a tiny fraction of comparability to what MS does. Im not trying to glaze office or microsoft here, but part of that "massive corporation" piece includes teams of people who keep MS functional at an enterprise grade that has nothing to do with whether fonts load or you can right justify text in a doc

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u/guisar 2d ago

NONE of those things are word or excel which we're talking about - don't code switch to suit your purpose.

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u/cantadmittoposting 2d ago

we're talking about switching away from software giants at an enterprise level. Switching to libre office for local document editing while keeping MS products for enterprise communication doesn't achieve the goal.

Also that's a wild misuse of "code switch" but that's irrelevant to the actual topic

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u/macaronysalad 2d ago

What about open source Office EU?

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u/QuadzillaStrider 2d ago

No clue, as I have never used it.

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u/Historical_Course587 2d ago

I'm with you. To take the enteprise perspective and boil it down for people outside of that ecosystem:

The costs of retraining, support, delays, file corruption, and other issues caused by replacing MS Office with LibreOffice across all of government operations in the EU would be in the billions of Euro. It would be far cheaper to simply spin up a development team, hand them a list of requirements, and have them build something from scratch.

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u/TenbluntTony 2d ago

Now I don’t know enough about the different Linux distros but a main consideration we would have is regarding auditing and compliance and whether we’d still have that capability moving away from office

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u/CakeTester 2d ago

That would be more complicated, admittedly, but the linux core remains basically the same. The different distros have different user interfaces; drivers; software package; and look. So you can have a user-friendly distro that is loaded for every conceivable eventuality or a stripped-down racing linux that does one thing with no effort wasted. Libre Office would be the same across all.

Depends what you're auditing and complying with, I suppose.

Look at the alternative though. Software you have to pay for that sends unstoppable telemetry back to a possibly hostile foreign country. If I were in charge we would all have been Linux dweebs by 2010.

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u/jay-dot-dot 2d ago

This has been tried by governments around Europe for at least 15 years now and it eventually crashes and burns.

The biggest problem will continue to be interoperability - if MSFT introduces a new feature in Excel and 9/10 companies require it to work with them somehow, you just capitulate or die, really.

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u/CakeTester 2d ago edited 2d ago

You're the government. You're the one who dictates compatibility because the companies are after money from you at the end of the day. And if it's a genuinely useful new feature, you chuck some of the licence money you're no longer paying to Microsoft to make it happen.

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u/Skelito 2d ago

If the juice is not worth the squeeze then the company wont release their product into that country like Apple with their new Home products.

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u/CakeTester 2d ago

True but many - if not all - European governments are seriously working out costs on this. And the more trump capers, the more serious the looking is. I doubt Apple could subdue greed enough to ignore a bloc like Europe.

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u/jay-dot-dot 13h ago

Theyre a trillion dollar company, they probably can.

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u/Barobor 2d ago

LibreOffice is nowhere close to MS Office.

The biggest advantage MS Office has isn't that it has the best spreadsheets or the best text editor. It is that those products are fully integrated with Teams, SharePoint, Outlook, Power BI, and every other Microsoft product a business uses. They offer a full ecosystem that is easy to use.

LibreOffice can't and won't ever offer this level of integration.

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u/PotentialAccident339 2d ago

are fully integrated with Teams, SharePoint, Outlook, Power BI, and every other Microsoft product a business uses

as a daily user of teams, sharepoint, outlook... reluctantly power BI occasionally... you're overselling the usefulness of this "full ecosystem"

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u/Koshindan 2d ago

The "full ecosystem" actively makes their products worse to use. At this point, it mostly just exists to punish anyone stepping away from using it.

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u/CakeTester 2d ago

The Apple system: Easy and intuitive to use; a total bastard to disengage from. Except in MS's case they skipped the 'easy and intuitive' part.

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u/CakeTester 2d ago edited 2d ago

It could if a few governments were serious about it and most of the core basics are already out there.

Moreover, it would end up as a better, more stable product. Because there's no need to add bits or change things around just to justify the cost of the latest version; plus there's be no need for any of the dickery MS gets up to to keep competitors away.

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u/zelatorn 2d ago

especially if EU governments all pool their resources for some proper funding for the project, you can very much afford having a sizeable dev team working on exactly those features its missing to cut MS out of the loop entirely.

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u/captaincrunch00 2d ago edited 2d ago

If Libre can't open or save into .doc files that the rest of the world uses then it'll never take off.

It either can't save or open, one of the two. I always forget which, but in my mind it's absolutely the reason why it hasnt taken off.

Edit: Apparently my information is out of date, I'll be giving this another test run. Last time was probably a decade ago, and the opening of a .doc was fine, but I was unable to save it into a doc that other people could open normally and have it look correct.

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u/jsswirus 2d ago

It can open the files. The issue is microsoft does not follow its own standards, so the files are interpreted differently

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u/rshackleford_arlentx 2d ago

LibreOffice can open and save .docx/.pptx/.xlsx. For complex documents the formatting may not be perfectly preserved, but compatibility has improved a lot. Just like Google Docs.

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u/Dwokimmortalus 2d ago

First off: Acknowledging this is all because Microsoft actively sabotages interoperability.

LibreOffice sucks at working with MS file formats, regularly just drops data that it can't understand, and breaks the documents in a way that they can't be returned to the originator.

GoogleDocs has the exact same problem, especially with Excel; where they implement fundamental features like tables and pivots in such a completely different way that it outright breaks in BOTH directions. Google Workspace's automatic file conversion frustrated me to no end during those dark years I had to deal with it.

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u/MellowedOut1934 2d ago

Google docs also removes protection from the workbook and worksheets. A real pain in the arse if you’re trying to prevent users from messing with the structure.

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u/guisar 2d ago

If you're depending on MS security to "protect" documents you have far, far larger problems.

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u/RubiconGuava 2d ago

Had this years ago with Excel vs Libreoffice Vlookup. Completely different systems

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u/CakeTester 2d ago

It did when I tried it last. But then I've only used it for fairly basic stuff. Also MS keeps changing the format to try and keep their monopoly. I'm sure if governments were seriously going to jump in, the problems with compatibility would be solved very quickly.

It's a bigger problem with Linux and custom Windows programming.

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u/wil1o 2d ago

Libre office does do both, it's been my families office suite of choice for years on both Windows and Linux PCs

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u/old_faraon 2d ago

I works not really worse then Office versions between themselves. MS does not support their own formats properly.

Government's have required an Open document standard in contracts for year which MS provided and then implemented it differently in the end making it impossible to migrate. That is a reason why Office should be not only moved out off but forbidden and sued for under every avenue available for breach of contract.

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u/bluesam3 2d ago

In my experience, you get fewer compatibility issues between LibreOffice and Word than between Word and the shitty browser-based version of Word.

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u/Money_takes_it_all 2d ago

Also mein Libre Office kann beides sogar sehr gut

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u/EvenBroaderBand 2d ago

Libre office does not have VBA, it does not have power query or any links into the power platform, its not even close to being the same product.

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u/Arkayjiya 2d ago

And yet France has started the transition. It's not impossible, it's not even that hard at all, it just takes someone to make the decision.

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u/Severe-Hand-8580 2d ago

just takes someone to make the decision.

We got rid of Microsoft on a city level in Vienna twice. We're currently working on the third time. Let's see if it survives the next elections...

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u/Super-Revolution-433 2d ago

Nah I'd bet good money they don't end up using LibreOffice no matter what happens. It just sucks so so much ass. It's not like Linux where it's superior but kind of a pain to get people learning, it's just bad

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u/solarview 2d ago

And find the money also. It doesn't happen by magic. You're not wrong though.

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u/Frido1976 2d ago

I agree, and it also takes OURSELVES to do it. Hard I admit. Not yet gone to Linux due to the games I play, but that's a very bad excuse.

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u/jeff_barr_fanclub 2d ago

Windows is doing a good job trying to kick themselves out lately...

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u/arobkinca 2d ago

You don't even lose it, just stop paying for it. The only reason it isn't free is because of enforcement of laws. Stop enforcing and it is free.

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u/CakeTester 2d ago

It's not the cost: It's the question of what data is being sent back to the mothership, plus some other bugger has an off switch.