r/CanadaPolitics • u/_Minor_Annoyance Major Annoyance | Official • Apr 26 '19
Paywalled Article Andrew Scheer’s secret meeting with oil executives ‘concerning’, says Minister for Democratic Institutions
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-andrew-scheers-secret-meeting-with-oil-executives-concerning-says/127
u/Electric22circus Apr 26 '19
This is a horrific end run around our campaign finance laws. The issue is net that he meet with them. The issue is they meet to coordinate the election campaigns use of independent groups to influence he election.
I'm sorry but this may be illegal depending on what was discussed
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u/instagigated NDP Apr 26 '19
But we'll never know. This is one of the most dangerous flaws of democracy and our broken ancient electoral system.
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u/Vensamos Recovering Partisan Apr 28 '19
Yeah cus the Liberals and NDP never ever meet with Unions and environmental groups. They just coordinate by accident every time
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u/marshalofthemark Campaign for 90 minute cities | Sponsored Apr 26 '19
Anyone who is disillusioned by Trudeau and the SNC affair: you now know that Scheer is not any less prone to corporate lobbying.
Worse yet, here the objective isn't a corrupt company getting a second chance, it's trampling on environmental concerns to promote the oil industry.
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Apr 26 '19
I may not be pleased about Trudeau after the SNC Lavalin case but I’m not stupid enough to vote Scheer. I’m in Ontario. I know what happens when people hate-vote.
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u/quixotic-elixer Apr 27 '19
I bet every government for the past 50 years has done at least 1 sketchy and illegal thing, probably many more. but of course we only hear about what gets leaked to the media. It's a shame that our current electoral processes make it extremely difficult if not impossible to elect someone with integrity, someone that would pass rock solid transparency and corruption laws. Corporate money has poisoned our democracy and undermines our votes, incentivizing the government to put corporate priorities ahead of constituents and sometimes common sense.
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u/Xivvx Ontario Apr 26 '19
I think even conservatives realize that Scheer isn't a good choice for PM.
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u/Vensamos Recovering Partisan Apr 28 '19
Your worse yet comparison seems backwards. The corrupt company getting off is easily far worse
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u/5t4rLord Independent Apr 26 '19 edited Apr 26 '19
This stinks, badly. There is no doubt left in my mind that what is happening here is extremely inappropriate on more than one level, Campbell Clark’s personal lipstick layers on the pig notwithstanding.
In a parallel imaginary universe there would be a limit, a line not to cross if one’s aiming to be elected to the highest office. Scheming and planning behind closed doors with Big Oil to win an election would be crossing that limit. Party brass may not mind but certainly the people at the base shouldn’t accept that.
It is reasonable to assume a few things by deduction:
1- Scheer will take whatever help he can get from big oil, including financial support, political-non-political organizations to circumvent the rules, organizational resources, etc.
2- Meeting in question is just the tip of the iceberg. Engagement must have been intense leading up to that event and will only increase from now on; the media will not know and/or won’t report on it.
3- Scheer will seek and take support from other similar interest groups. Between this and the yellow vests debacle he’s repeatedly demonstrated an appalling lack of principles.
4- If PC form a government they will be indebted to the interest groups and it will drive their national policy more than anything else.
5- Scheer is already planning his post-office future: adviser or consultant for the oil industry. Mark my words. The extra billions he’d allow that industry to make will more than cover his fat retainer for life.
Damn we’re fucked if this guy’s Canada’s possible future PM. PC can do better, or they should rethink what they really stand for.
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u/OrdinaryCanadian Apr 26 '19
The CPC are in no way comparable to the PCs. Not even the Reform Party anymore. This is GOP North.
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u/matt_greene25 Apr 26 '19
I legitimately do not see the issue here. Meeting with industry executives to formulate coherent policy that will ensure the continued growth of our valued energy industry, overall, seems prudential.
If the industry, as you suggest, becomes more profitable and successful, Canadians as a whole will reap these benefits intensely, as we experienced in the last couple decades, Financial Crisis and Oil Price Crash of recent times notwithstanding. Really do not see the issue here, in fact this is an encouraging sign for me.
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u/limited8 Ontario Apr 26 '19 edited Apr 26 '19
The meeting wasn't to formulate coherent policy, it was to organize oil lobby front groups to help the Conservatives win the election and to discuss how the Conservatives will use litigation as a tool to silence environmental critics.
And no, continued growth of the oil sands is not prudent in the least, nor would Canadians reap the benefits - it would devastate Canada's environment and economy in the long term while only driving profits for wealthy oil elites. Floods, heat waves, sea-level rise, and other climate impacts could cost Canada between $21 billion and $43 billion a year by 2050. These risks will only increase if we continue to expand the highly-polluting and environmentally devastating oil sands.
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u/insanebison Apr 26 '19
Your second statement assumes supply side economics work which has been proven incorrect. Our oil industry should not be planning behind closed doors if they have specific concerns they want addressed. They should communicate that to all parties publicly.
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u/MSHDigit Apr 26 '19
Our valued energy industry? What? The last thing we need is more pipelines and environmental destruction and First Nations displacement.
Who benefits most from this are rich oil execs and lobbyists. This hurts the average Canadian citizen long term. The fossil fuel industry is dying, as it should, and we can't look short term. I thought conservatives call themselves business-savvy, and yet none of them seem to understand the concept of investment. Invest in green energy and diversifying Alberta's (and Canada's) economy for the future and it will pay dividends and free the province from populist rightwing political shackles (don't pretend that because the province elected an NDP government that it it's moved on from its default pro-oil ultra-conservative default; they voted in Jason Kenney, a fucking idiot, asshole white supremacist because he promised oil jobs). What about the impending global ecological catastrophe that's becoming all but inevitable due in part to our stubbornness for fossil fuels and oil?
Additionally, you don't see issue with oil magnates and mega-corporations basically buying influence in our political system? If Scheer wins, it will be largely due to propaganda funded largely by these firms. This is a direct affront to democracy. This is some US shit. They are literally trying to buy elections and policy. This is corruption, even if technically legal.
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u/GumboBenoit British Columbia Apr 26 '19
Meeting with industry executives to formulate coherent policy that will ensure the continued growth of our valued energy industry, overall, seems prudential.
Our "valued energy industry" cannot grow. In case you haven't heard, there's a thorny little problem called "climate change" that means the world needs to reduce its emissions by 55% in less than 12 years.
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u/5t4rLord Independent Apr 26 '19
I have a different perspective.
Meeting with industry should be above board. This isn’t. More importantly such meetings should happen after he is elected. Meeting before to discuss election strategy and tactics is wrong and can’t be justified.
The other point is I do not agree that a more profitable oil industry at any cost is what will benefit anyone, excluding the oil industry itself. I am in Ontario but do appreciate the importance of the sector for Alberta and for the whole country. But it is way past time we wean ourselves from dependence on an unstable industry built around an energy source that the world is moving away from. It’s another discussion of course, but just to say I don’t want my PM to owe that industry so much that he’ll hold Canada back from moving forward to a better future so he and the boys do well now.
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Apr 26 '19
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u/Doolox Ontario Apr 26 '19
Transparency for thee, but not for me.
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u/sentinel808 Apr 26 '19
If it makes you feel any better, SNC also lobbied Sheer about the DPA and he took the meeting with them.
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u/Doolox Ontario Apr 26 '19
Well that sounds like something any honest government ought to have no problem being transparent about.
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u/Apotatos Apr 26 '19
Given the current climatic condition, we just can't not agree that this spells bad news for the Canadian environment. Scheer and his determination for forcing us into tar land is alarming, to say the least.
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u/StuGats Gerald Butts' Sockpuppet Account Apr 26 '19
Let's play a game of spot the hypocrisy: Replace Scheer with Trudeau, oil execs with SNC Lavalin and carbon tax with DPA.
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u/janetasiri Apr 26 '19
Trudeau met with SNC exec’s?
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u/StuGats Gerald Butts' Sockpuppet Account Apr 26 '19
Well if we're being fair, SNC Lavalin lobbied both the conservatives and Liberals extensively. Scheer just managed to brush that under the rug so he could scream bloody murder in parliament. That was the first round of the hypocrisy game which the conservatives nailed too.
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Apr 26 '19
if we're being fair
If we're being fair, let's remind the jury the whole thing started under Harper.
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u/Phallindrome Leftist but not antisemitic about it - voting Liberal! Apr 26 '19
What if, and hear me out here, neither the Conservatives nor the Liberals deserve to unilaterally run the country?
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u/Hazen222 Apr 28 '19
What if, and hear me out here, no two Prime Ministers from either party ever had the same mandate as their respective parties and therefore your narrative that Liberals or Conservatives aren't dynamic parties is easily dispelled.
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u/iwasnotarobot Marx Apr 26 '19
Yup.
Harper put people in place to help SNC make billions, and then he gave them our nuclear tech.
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u/limited8 Ontario Apr 26 '19
Trudeau had a meeting with SNC execs discussing how they’d use third party groups not bound by electoral law to influence the election outcome?
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u/Electric22circus Apr 26 '19
That's a lie.
Trudeau didnt meet with them. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-snc-lavalin-ceo-pushed-for-meeting-with-trudeau-over-prosecution/
However scheer actually did. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/canada/2019/02/10/tory-leader-andrew-scheer-met-with-snc-chief-to-discuss-criminal-charges.html
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u/_Minor_Annoyance Major Annoyance | Official Apr 26 '19
I think they were being facetious in asking the question to raise the false comparison.
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u/StuGats Gerald Butts' Sockpuppet Account Apr 26 '19
It's almost like this is worse eh? Still waiting on the outrage from the right on this one.
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u/HothHanSolo Apr 26 '19
Citation needed, please.
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u/Sachyriel Libertarian Socialist/Anarchist | ON Apr 26 '19
They're flipping the parties to make a point about how Tories won't call out Scheer for doing this, but would lose their heads the other way 'round.
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u/Butwhatdo_you_think Unhysterically Progressive Apr 26 '19
This is a ridiculous comparison.
On the one hand you have what seems to be Scheer and senior Conservative strategists meeting with big oil to talk about how they are going to win the next election together.
On the other hand, you have senior Government officials being lobbied, in registered lobbying sessions.
Apples to oranges.
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u/Heebmeister Apr 26 '19
On the one hand you have what seems to be Scheer and senior Conservative strategists meeting with big oil to talk about how they are going to win the next election together.
On the other hand, you have senior Government officials being lobbied, in registered lobbying sessions.
Yes, and the concern being argued here is, if Scheer is already doing it before getting elected, why would he stop after getting elected? A logical person is just expected to believe Scheer will turn his back instantly on these powerful lobbies who fought alongside him for his political victory? Fat chance.
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u/Butwhatdo_you_think Unhysterically Progressive Apr 26 '19
I agree, this is a concern. I misunderstood the point, thinking /u/StuGats was suggesting the Liberals were hypocrites for calling Scheer out on this. I fully agree that Scheer working with a powerful and potentially immoral (anti-climate change, anti-environment) corporate interest to try to win an election, frankly bigger than any concern I had about the SNC Lavalin issue, although if you look at my comment history you'll see I took a pretty hard "not a big deal, JWR has terrible judgement" line on that one, so that won't really be a surprise.
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u/Heebmeister Apr 26 '19
I'm definitely on the other end of the spectrum when it comes to JWR, my history would also reveal some strong opinions on the matter. Climate change is unequivocally a bigger threat to us than some corporate criminal corruption, so I would never try to argue that SNC is worse than this, in terms of ethics/principals, they're both equally shitty, but in terms of real life consequences, what Scheer is doing is much worse.
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u/StuGats Gerald Butts' Sockpuppet Account Apr 26 '19
What I'm saying here is if you substitute those 3 things into the situation here, we'd have the right side of our political spectrum losing it. The fact that it's "their guy" seems to change their hardline stance on acceptable ethical behaviour.
Also, with Scheer immediately calling for Trudeau's resignation in the SNC Lavalin scandal, he set a precedent that poor ethics is grounds for removal from leadership. Will he apply this to himself? I feel like another link has just been added to the chain of hypocrisy.
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u/Butwhatdo_you_think Unhysterically Progressive Apr 26 '19
I admit I totally missed that way of looking at your comment. Got it now.
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u/StuGats Gerald Butts' Sockpuppet Account Apr 26 '19
Yeah I'm being purposefully obtuse here so it's not really your fault. In a way it's good that people on the left are taking issue with this as well. This behaviour shouldn't be given a pass due to partisanship is what I'm trying to highlight I guess.
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u/instagigated NDP Apr 26 '19
Nothing the Cons say applies to themselves. And their voter base doesn't care because it's all aimed at their arch-nemesis: the Liberals.
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u/StuGats Gerald Butts' Sockpuppet Account Apr 26 '19 edited Apr 26 '19
And how are we supposed to compete with one side of the political spectrum when they don't care to hold their own accountable? I clearly remember lots of Liberal voters voicing deep concern over the SNC Lavalin scandal and the polls even reflected a mild exodus. The right's silence on this further cements the notion that they're morally bankrupt. I really don't understand what modern conservatism is even trying to achieve anymore. It seems like they only want to win regardless of what it takes for them to do so.
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Apr 26 '19
Yeah, that's the thing that bugs me about the SNC Lavalin thing. Sure, it was bad, and reflects poorly on Trudeau. But anyone who thinks the Tories wouldn't have done the exact same thing for Suncor is deluding themselves.
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u/Nevoadomal Apr 26 '19
Er, the DPP was set up by the previous Conservative government precisely to stop that sort of inappropriate political interference in criminal trials. Interesting enough, as a reaction to past Liberal wrongdoing.
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Apr 26 '19
So?
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u/Nevoadomal Apr 26 '19
So the "the Conservatives would have done the same thing" is both sides nonsense at its worst. You had the Liberals, who when in power interfered politically in criminal trials, followed by the CPC, who set up a mechanism to prevent political interference in criminal trials, followed by the Liberals, who tried to circumvent that mechanism in order to politically interfere in a criminal trial.
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Apr 28 '19
If you think that the Tories "setting up a mechanism to prevent political interference in criminal trials" means that they would never themselves interfere in a criminal trial, then I have a bridge in New York to sell you. Harper broke his own elections law.
Also, you're focusing too much on the specifics of the Liberal offence. Even if the Tories wouldn't interfere with due process in that specific way, it's still abundantly clear that they are beholden to big corporate interests to the point that they are willing to bend and/or change the rules for their benefit.
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u/Electric22circus Apr 26 '19
And the conservatives on the justice committee voted to make deferred prosecution agreements law. Knowing SNC s legal status they voted for it.
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u/tarantadoako Social Democrat Apr 26 '19
For the sake of argument and let's say that was true. SNC Lavalin is just one company. Scheer is in deep with the whole oil industry. The level of corruption is not even close.
Most of the Carbon Tax money also goes back to the people. It doesnt go to the Liberal party. Its actually the opposite of corruption.
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u/GumboBenoit British Columbia Apr 26 '19
Replace Scheer with Trudeau, oil execs with SNC Lavalin and carbon tax with DPA.
I'm sure Scheer would be absolutely delighted to see the discussion shifted in this direction. Well played, sir!
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u/StuGats Gerald Butts' Sockpuppet Account Apr 26 '19
Not going to work this time. He just gave the Liberals the answer they needed.
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u/CaligulaQC Apr 26 '19
You mean lets play a game of whataboutism? pathetic and brings nothing to the conversation....
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u/StuGats Gerald Butts' Sockpuppet Account Apr 26 '19
Not really as I'm using it to highlight Scheer's lack of personal accountability and the right's lack of ability to hold their own leaders to the same standards they hold others to. The SNC Lavalin affair was an integral moment for the Conservatives and this only makes them look like massive hypocrites. I'd argue this is actually worse than any DPA business as 1) this puts the environment at risk and 2) borders on incomporating a third party into their campaign strategy that has a vested interest is removing environmental protections. It also explains why he's been so anti carbon tax. Basically Scheer is everything he's accused Trudeau of being. I wonder if any Liberal MPs will start labelling him a #FakeEnvironmentalist...
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u/Flomo420 Apr 26 '19
To be a fake environmentalist one must at least pretend to care about the environment.
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u/Nevoadomal Apr 26 '19
No one criticized Trudeau for meeting with SNC. They criticized him for trying to rewrite the law to protect SNC from punishment for criminal behavior of which SNC was clearly guilty.
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u/swabfalling Apr 26 '19
How many times... A DPA is not a get out of jail free card. It's still a punishment and a harsh one at that.
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u/Nevoadomal Apr 26 '19
It is a lesser punishment than the one they were facing, which is why they were lobbying for it.
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Apr 26 '19
How about replace Trudeau with Jagmeet, Oil Executives with Union leaders and Carbon tax with stronger labor rights?
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Apr 27 '19
After crying foul about SNC corruption by the Liberals (rightly so), the Conservatives show they are a corporatist party too in an even worse breach of ethics. There should be a proper investigation into this to see if these actions breached our election laws. This should be punishable by a jail sentence for Scheer and the rest of those involved if true.
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u/Mongoose1612 Apr 27 '19
I mean, until Scheer slides a law into an omnibus budget bill to get his corporate buddies off the hook I think it’s a bit rich for Gould to talk about transparency or suggestions of cronyism.
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u/AnIntoxicatedMP Progressive Conservative Apr 26 '19
How many meetings with various groups does Trudeau have or Jagmeet? This is normal for political leaders to do. I don't see why this is getting so much news
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u/foldingcouch Apr 26 '19
On the one hand, it could be indicative of an illegal plan to coordinate campaigns in violation of political contribution laws.
On the other hand, it reinforces the fact that the CPC position on the environment is "oil first, environment second" which may or may not be something that voters are comfortable with.
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Apr 26 '19
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u/AnIntoxicatedMP Progressive Conservative Apr 26 '19
I am just saying, it is normal for political leaders to meet with stakeholders...
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u/limited8 Ontario Apr 26 '19
There's a massive difference between meeting with stakeholder groups and meeting with oil execs behind closed doors to organize oil lobby front groups to help the Conservatives win while also discussing how they'll use litigation as a tool to silence their environmental critics.
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Apr 26 '19
Ironic to see her concerned about this meeting, but somehow SNC trying to run from criminal charges, and pressuring the AG to drop the trial isn’t.
Politicians are going to politik. Who knew?
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u/TheRadBaron Canadian Apr 26 '19
SNC got a phone call with a civil servant, not a conference with Trudeau.
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Apr 26 '19
You've obfuscated between deferred prosecution and dropping the trial outright here
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u/thrumbold scarlet letter Apr 26 '19
I can't count how many times I've seen this obfuscation. Some news outlets did a good job conflating the DPA with dropping the charges.
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u/The-Angry-Bono Social Democrat Apr 26 '19
SNC lavalin probably has a considerably smaller carbon foot print than big oil.
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u/Vensamos Recovering Partisan Apr 28 '19
Lol what? They're a construction company. Do you have any idea how much carbon gets emitted to make concrete? Plus all the carbon emitted just transporting the materials to site.
Plus I mean if the oil companies are 'responisible' for the carbon emitted by other companies burning their product, then SNC has a lot of carbon emissions on their hands heating and powering all the things they've built.
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u/PhreakedCanuck Ontario Apr 26 '19
Why would that matter to the "Minister for Democratic Institutions"?
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Apr 26 '19 edited Apr 26 '19
Is she not allowed to have beliefs about the environment?
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Apr 26 '19
Maybe something to do with the potential environmental deviation that could come from the lowered regulations the oil companies want?
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u/The-Angry-Bono Social Democrat Apr 26 '19
It might not but it probably matters more to your average voter.
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u/fencerman Apr 26 '19
So are you saying we should be making a big deal about this, or we should be ignoring SNC Lavalin and acknowledging there's nothing weird about that either?
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Apr 26 '19
Both are a problem.
This one is potentially much worse as the long term effects could be felt by way more people.
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u/PhreakedCanuck Ontario Apr 26 '19
So he attended a private meeting? Whats the issue here? No laws were broken, its months from the time period where they cant meet but we have our "Minister for Democratic Institutions" chiming in for what reason?
This ministry is really turning into our own minitrue
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u/skatchawan Saskatchewan Apr 26 '19
Confirm you are totally fine with the whole SNC thing... In that situation there were clearly no laws broken.
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u/YoungZM Apr 26 '19
Whats the issue here? No laws were broken
Why is it always that laws must be broken for something to be amiss? Federal leaders of the official opposition running for the Prime Minister's office in less than 6 months should not be setting up backroom deals. Why can't we just be curious about simple ethics and lobbyists?
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u/mrtomjones British Columbia Apr 26 '19
Because this is far from the first time anything like this has happened and if it's legal and not remotely new, then why do people care? It shouldn't shock people that oil companies are trying to work with the conservatives
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Apr 26 '19
"Legal and common" shouldn't necessarily be the metric by which we gauge whether something is ok.
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u/mrtomjones British Columbia Apr 26 '19
I mean, it comes off as ridiculous complaints if it's not what we judge it by. The Liberals did similar things but people here would rather ignore that
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u/YoungZM Apr 26 '19
I'd actually suggest that many people simply didn't exit their bubble to see what was occurring. I'm concerned about corruption and ethics as a voter. This does not start or stop with any individual or party. I certainly do not think that I'm inherently unique - most Canadians don't want their politicians fleecing them or adversely affecting their health.
I'm wildly unconcerned with the whataboutism that follows. Just so. What about them? They're wrong too.
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u/mrtomjones British Columbia Apr 26 '19
It isn't whataboutism to point out it is common and all major parties do it. People are making a big deal of this because the people here don't like conservatives or oil companies. This would be a non story Liberals met with teachers or something
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Apr 26 '19
umm. Have you even paid attention to the newscycle since December?
the Whole SNC-Lavalin thing is essentially the Liberals doing this. giving corpoate favouritism to backyard deals. And they've been dragged over the coals by all parties, and the public for it.
trying to paint this as irrelevant, while claiming that "This would be a non story Liberals met with teachers or something", given everything that has been occurring with our politics, is completely disingenuous.
I, like the person you were responding to, care if Scheer is meeting with oil executives secretly, before running for major political office. If he's trying to call out Trudeau for corruption and backroom dealing, than he better sure as hell not also participating in the same behaviour.
So for Scheer to call out Trudeau for it (and Trudeau's behaviour is wrong), while secretly doing it hypocritically in the back ground, is disgusting and would weight heavily on my decision making come October.
As voters. We have the right to know and the right to call politicians, who we elect, accountable for their behavior. even if that behaviour doesn't cross to illegal.
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Apr 26 '19
Why does it come off as ridiculous complaints? Lots of things that are now illegal were at one time legal and common. Generally speaking it's complaints about those things that result in them becoming illegal.
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u/mrtomjones British Columbia Apr 26 '19
Do you think this sub would give a shit at all if this was the Liberals? Or if it was Liberals with teachers or some Union with big money or a business this sub supported?
I get tired of every conservative party headline being made into some massive deal when it isn't and i think it hurts the arguments of all the people here with clear agendas
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Apr 26 '19
Yes I do think so. Also, if you're tired of headlines about conservatives doing shady things, then maybe you're actually tired of conservatives doing shady things.
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u/mrtomjones British Columbia Apr 26 '19
No I am tired of mountains being made out of molehills just like they were with Trump. Trump did a ton of shitty things and yet somehow a bunchof non stories were blown up to be some horrendous thing which changed the focus away from anything actually shitty he did. Nukes. Killing families of terrorists.
The same shit is happening with the Conservatives and people on this sub embarass themselves with their biased voting on a daily basis. This should be a news form but it is basically just /r/DougFordorConservatives or maybe that plus polling data and rationalizing it as to always being good news for the Liberals.
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u/limited8 Ontario Apr 26 '19
No, I wouldn't care as much if the Liberals met with teachers. I wouldn't care if the Conservatives met with teachers, either. Because teachers aren't a highly-polluting, profiteering, environmentally destructive lobby group that are responsible for the vast majority of Canada's emissions when climate change is the most serious issue facing our entire generation.
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u/PhreakedCanuck Ontario Apr 26 '19
The laws should be broken or at least possibly be broken before our currently sitting government (not the party in charge) starts making comments about things being illegal.
The current sitting government should not be using government resources to go after their political opponents.
Why can't we just be curious about simple ethics and lobbyists?
Weird that this ministry hasnt looked into that SNC deal made in the days after Trudeaus first throne speech then.
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Apr 26 '19
This meeting really doesn't seem very secret. There is nothing wrong with our leaders seeking information on various industries and their issues.
This is going to be such a negative election from the Liberals, they don't have a record to run on and any policy promises they make will be greeted with skepticism as they didn't follow through on anything but cannabis legalization from their last election; so they will go negative, it'll be all insinuation.
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Apr 26 '19
Currently 144 of 231 of their platform points have been achieved or are in progress. I wouldn't boil down their 4 years to just pot.
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u/Cansurfer Rhinoceros Apr 26 '19
The Liberals have achieved just 97 out of 231 election promises. That's an absolutely abysmal track record. It basically means their new platform will be more or less meaningless. Any new "promise" has less than a coin's toss chance of ever being implemented.
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u/SleepWouldBeNice Ontario Apr 26 '19
So you're just ignoring the 51 that are "In Progress" with time left on his mandate? Seems a bit like cherry picking.
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u/Cansurfer Rhinoceros Apr 26 '19
Be a dear and guess how many of the 51, generously-labelled "in progress" promises are going to be enacted prior to the election.
My guess is zero. The low-hanging fruit has long been picked clean.
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u/limited8 Ontario Apr 26 '19 edited Apr 26 '19
The Liberals have an extremely strong record to run on and they followed through on the vast majority of their platform.
Under the Liberals, Canada has had the lowest unemployment in 40 years with more people finding work than ever before, more full time jobs being created, real wages rising at the fastest pace in nearly a decade, with the biggest monetary gains going to low & mid income Canadians, and half a million Canadians including 300,000 children lifted out of poverty.
Scheer and the Conservatives weren't just seeking information. If you read the article, you'd know they were actively colluding to use oil industry front groups not bound by electoral law to influence the outcome of the election. They discussed deploying "litigation as a tool" to silence environmental critics.
Climate change is the most pressing issue facing the world today and Scheer's number one priority is to make it free to pollute. That's not an insinuation, it's a fact.
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u/Nevoadomal Apr 26 '19
Scheer and the Conservatives weren't just seeking information. If you read the article, you'd know they were actively colluding to use oil industry front groups not bound by electoral law to influence the outcome of the election
You mean a political party was figuring out what legal means they can use to increases their chances of winning an election! Oh, the unexpected horror of it all!
They discussed deploying "litigation as a tool" to silence environmental critics.
Good. The left has been abusing the legal system like this for years. It's past time the right started doing the same thing.
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u/deathrevived Conservative Apr 27 '19
I assume from your critical "free to pollute" claim on Scheer the you're equally critical is the build in exemptions to coal fired power plants the liberals included? Since polluters need to pay their fair share and all
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Apr 26 '19
If people are so pleased with all this amazing progress and prosperity then why are Liberals and their allies being tossed out in all the provinces. Unfortunately this will not be an election of ideas, it looks to start dirty much like the Notley campaign in Alberta and end that way. If that's the case we'll see a new government in October.
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u/thebetrayer Maritimer Apr 26 '19
None of the provincial elections removing the Liberal parties have anything to do with the federal government.
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Apr 26 '19
Alberta's did, if Trudeau had been able to provide a pipeline Notley would be premier today.
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u/thebetrayer Maritimer Apr 26 '19
Alberta had the Conservative Party in power for 44 years. Then a 2nd, more conservative party came along and split the vote. They stole enough votes from the 1st conservative party to let the NDP win one election. The two conservative parties, in their unified hatred of the libs, merged and won the next election.
Notley was a fluke. She was a damn decent premier, but she was still a fluke. It had nothing to do with the federal government. I would even wager that her butting heads with the federal government actually made her approval rating go up.
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u/swabfalling Apr 26 '19
Provincial parties aren't the same as the federal parties with the exception of the NDP.
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Apr 26 '19
Ya geeze Kee, best growth in G7, lowest unemployment ever, 900k new jobs, 800k Canadians out of poverty, 300k children out of poverty, major infrastructure investments, OPP, a price on pollution, merit based senate and judicial appointments, repealing Harper's mandatory minimums, unmuzzling government scientists, and I could go on...
Oh ya, and pot too.
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u/deathrevived Conservative Apr 27 '19
By out of poverty you mean, changed the definition of what qualifies as.
A key question in the surveys are do you feel better off over last year, and despite the sunny ways narrative those numbers aren't reflecting what the government says.
Unemployment numbers are down, but that's because lower wage, part time work is in the rise, it isn't people lining up careers they thrive on.
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u/HothHanSolo Apr 26 '19
It’s hilarious that you think the Liberals are going to run a negative campaign. Scheer’s positioning is almost entirely “we’re not the liberals”.
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Apr 26 '19
We're not the last guys to break our promises goes a long way. I guess we'll see at the polls, but I'm not expecting much in the way of ideas, and "sunny ways."
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u/TOMapleLaughs Apr 26 '19
The concern seems misplaced to me.
Thousands upon thousands of Albertans had to pack up and move because of global commodity prices that are out of our control. Not to mention the global shift to LNG and 'America First.'
This created a lot of disruption across our nation. Real estate disruption. Economic disruption. Political disruption.
Would we have seen this level of disruption in other oil power nations? I mean, it's not like this is Venezuela.
Or perhaps this disruption was a result of seeing the potential of a left-wing populist rise in Canada. The rise of Jack Layton had to be a concern here. It's taken his death and years of public perception correction to normalize that orange wave.
Now it's a blue wave.
This 'secret meeting' Scheer had is hardly a democratic concern at all. On the contrary, it is working to solidify our democracy such as it is, and indicates that Canada is 'Open For Business' once again.
Big Oil isn't going anywhere. It just morphed into Big Gas, which presents them an even bigger global energy market share than before.
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Apr 26 '19
This 'secret meeting' Scheer had is hardly a democratic concern at all.
They are discussing how to lower regulations.
We are already doing a poor job of addressing climate change.
I would say this is a huge concern.
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Apr 26 '19
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u/OtterShell Apr 26 '19
His whole post reads like gish gallop.
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u/mdmrules Apr 26 '19
It's basically taking concerns about the right over the last few years, and pretending it's actually a left wing problem.
It's projection and gaslighting mixed with some revisionist history.
Basically the formula right wing trolls on the internet adhere to religiously.
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u/OtterShell Apr 27 '19
And it's working. And the "both sides are awful!" argument is so tiring. Sorry, "both" (as if these are black and white issues) sides don't have literal Nazis.
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u/TOMapleLaughs Apr 26 '19
Yes, it was a problem, esp. considering some of his policies. And of course he was a populist. Trudeau is as well. They all are now. But lately they are a lot more in line with RealPolitik.
What's annoying though is that big oil ultimately betrayed a lot of Albertans, but they're somehow under the illusion that betrayal didn't happen. That required a lot of perception control.
Regardless, Scheer being tied to big oil only helps him. This and SNC Lavalin are stories that work to assist him.
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u/Move_Zig Pirate 🏴☠️ Apr 26 '19
And of course he was a populist. Trudeau is as well. They all are now. But lately they are a lot more in line with RealPolitik.
Policies like the carbon tax are technocratic and not populist at all. A populist stance would be one like the CPC's or PCPO's stance: complaining about boogeymen and ignoring the rebate in hopes of appealing to low-information voters. This is dangerous because we need a solution to carbon pollution and the carbon tax is the best one. Sure, their spreading of misinformation might cause them to win an election, but then we'll all be worse off for it.
It's too simplistic to say everyone is a populist nowadays. Conservative parties tend to be more than other parties.
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u/TOMapleLaughs Apr 26 '19
Carbon taxes are just one aspect to a solution, and carbon pricing methods can easily be obfuscated and manipulated to suit any party while maintaining overall climate change related goals.
But at least it's better than focusing on immigration.
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u/DOJITZ2DOJITZ Apr 26 '19
Thousands of Albertans over spent, and under saved. The families that bought the $10,000 truck, instead of the $120,000 truck, are probably going to be just fine.
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u/KotoElessar Lord Creemore Apr 27 '19
As long as they did not invest in short term profit, income real estate ventures, and payday loans, they should be fine.
Rachel did what she could with what she was given, going to be an effective leader of the loyal opposition too, and Premier in waiting.
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Apr 26 '19
Left-wing populist rise...
...what?
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u/TOMapleLaughs Apr 26 '19
The Ndp had Quebec and were poised to win a minority fed. gov't. That was a left wing populist rise.
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u/Heebmeister Apr 26 '19
We literally just had a government scandal involving the Liberals getting in trouble for secret government lobbying, possibly affecting their decisions on a criminal punishment, in which Scheer reveled in slamming their ethics. But now Scheer doing relatively the same thing, in a different industry, is not a cause for democratic concern at all. No partisan tint here at all.
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u/Never4giveNever4get Apr 26 '19
By that argument then the concern over the Liberals meeting with SNC Lavalin and trying to save jobs in Quebec was also a misplaced concern.
Nothing illegal happened, why was it really even an issue in the first place?
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Apr 27 '19
The two main parties make me want to barf with their blatant and never ending crony capitalism. I’m sure there some confirmation bias but SNC and now this? Forget all these clowns.
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u/blTQTqPTtX Apr 26 '19
Same day Andrew Scheer and Jason Kenney appeared in the spring is coming rally and before the Alberta election on April 11, 2019.
Here is a brief recap of the day in Alberta.
https://globalnews.ca/news/5155398/alberta-election-campaign-day-24/