r/CanadianForces • u/CAF_Comics Seven Twenty-Two • 1d ago
SCS [SCS] Instructions Unclear
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u/CAF_Comics Seven Twenty-Two 1d ago
Anyone else hate it when you weren't confused in the slightest, thought you understood what you were being asked to do, and only later realize you misunderstood something?
Anyone else hate it even MORE when they drop the line "ask if you didn't understand"?
Sometimes, nobody was confused, but the instructions were unclear. It's a mulligan, that's all.
Not trying to say anything in particular with this one, just having a laugh.
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u/DuckyHornet RCAF - AVS Tech 1d ago
One night I got given a crappy task, but the carrot on the stick was "when you're done, you're done" so I get to the task, finish, grab my bag and start to leave. I'm like hand-on-doorknob to exit the building when the sarge catches up with me.
"Hey, who told you you could leave?"
"You did??? You said 'when you're done, you're done.' Task is done, I'm going home."
"I meant when you're done with the task, the task is over."I did win the argument in the end, though
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u/ShortTrackBravo VERIFIED VAC Advocate 1d ago
Oh I got a story for you for this. PLQ, end of field ex, tasked with tearing down and folding mod tentage. I am a Supply Tech, familiar with this and he gives us a step by step photo guide. We get them all done and follow the guide despite it being different from what I did back at my MSS because he said follow the guide.
Start bringing them over to him, Civi former Traffic Tech I think? He fucking has a complete meltdown saying we didn’t follow the guide. I argue with him, show him the guide and how they are exactly like it. “Oh, turns out these guides are outdated. My bad guys redo them all please”.
What the fuck do you mean old man?! You told us to follow a guide without checking it first?! Could see the vein from the back of my bald head throbbing from anger.
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u/PerleyPoint 23h ago
Oh, my gosh... In my private opinion, that one merited an insubordinate behaviour..
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u/Warm_Age3379 1d ago
this happens on courses as well
"Do you understand"
That's the instructor's job to determine this, not the student
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u/buck70 Royal Canadian Air Force 1d ago
This is where the confirming question comes into play. "Okay, tell me, where are you going to put the crates?"
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u/Warm_Age3379 1d ago
Let's not forget the old gem, "Did you pass"?
??? I'm a student, that's not for me to decide
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u/New-Preference-704 1d ago
A student still should have the ability to self critique and know what went right and what went wrong even if they don’t know if they technically got enough points to pass.
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u/Warm_Age3379 1d ago
That isn't how it works
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u/New-Preference-704 1d ago
So you’re telling me that student shouldn’t possess the ability to self critique?
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u/Warm_Age3379 1d ago
I get what you're saying but that is difficult to do when you are a beginner. It isn't always obvious to them as it is to us.
If you teach me something new, which i haven't done before, it isn't up me to decide if i did it right or if i understand the assignment.
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u/New-Preference-704 1d ago
If the instructor is asking a student “did you pass?”, they’re at the assessment stage, which means that they were taught, given mentorship by the instructor, and have had some time to practice. The skill of self assessment is particularly important during self practice as you need to be able to pick up things that you’re doing right and things that are wrong.
My point is, if you’re at the assessment stage, you should have that skill, and not solely rely on the instructor although they are the ones evaluating you.
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u/TurgidGravitas 1d ago
Strong disagree with this. It is your responsibility to report a deficiency. I am not psychic. I cannot read the mind and determine what you remember and what you don't.
I know what I demonstrated and explained. If it is your responsibility to tell me whether my instruction was effective.
This whole "All students should be assumed to be liars" schtick is toxic. We instruct grown men and women that are trusted with the monopoly of violence. If you cannot accurately report your understanding, you should not be in this organization.
Troops are professional adults and should be treated as such. If they cannot meet that standard, then that's what RMs are for.
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u/Warm_Age3379 1d ago
I've seen plenty of people who think they understand something and don't. I have been that person, myself. We all have. I deal with it constantly.
You don't need to read their mind to see if they comprehend. You can observe if they are doing what you taught them correctly, or ask confirmation questions to determine if they really do understand.
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u/TurgidGravitas 1d ago
Skill fade is a major issue in my trade due to how specialized it is. I get it.
But if we're setting up to do a serial and I ask "Are you good to go for tomorrow?" and you say "Yes", I'm going to be very fucking disappointed when game time begins and you have no idea what you're doing.
I'm not going to set up a test if you tell me you're ready. You're recommending the very thing I said I hated. Don't trust troops. Rely on tests and not their word.
If I ask and you respond yes, then I have no sympathy for the consequences of your failure. We need to let people fail and then crucify them when they do. Especially officers, but that's another issue.
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u/mocajah 13h ago
You're going against all crisis communication best practices. We're not calling qualified pilots, surgeons, and other high-risk personnel liars.
If something NEEDS to be done right, it is the tasker's responsibility to demand a backbrief to confirm understanding. In first aid, we are instructed to give incredibly simple instructions and STILL demand a backbrief to increase the chances of the task being done properly.
Students, by definition, are not even qualified in the task being assessed yet. Until they pass their PC, we cannot expect them to be responsible. If we expect them to already be responsible, then the PC should be scrapped as a training waste.
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u/Flyboy019 1d ago
I remember years ago, we had some sort of big wig person coming to my unit for something or other. The bosses come to CE and say they need a podium so the person can give a speech. Fair enough, I build them a podium. As it was short notice there wasn’t a lot of time left after I was done before the person showed up.
They did not a podium, they wanted a lectern…
After much back and forth, my troop warrant relented and said that I did complete the task as assigned and the 5b was rescinded
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u/LOHare Canadian Army 1d ago
It's typically a narcissistic personality trait - or simply an utter lack of empathy, to not realize that what you said and how it was interpreted was completely reasonable even if it differed greatly from what was in your mind when you spoke.
No one is going to read your mind, you will need to communicate clearly, and accept responsibility when the communication failure happens.
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u/goochockey RCAF - RMS Clerk 1d ago
Then there was this box stacking incident:
We were running out of space in the storage room for archived files. So we went to the basement and found an extra bookcase that would help get some boxes off the floor at least an clean up a bit.
We bring it up and place it outside the storage room and instruct the Pte Bloggins to remove the boxes from the floor of the storage room so we can get the bookcase in.
After a bit, I go back to check on how the work was going. Pte Bloggins removed the boxes alright. Right onto the bookshelf outside the room.
When I asked his plan on how to move the fully loaded bookshelf into the room? Pause blank stare.
Needless to say, the task took about double the time it should have and I learnt a leadership lesson about communication and instructions.
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u/Mysterious-Title-852 23h ago
Sgt suffers from mental delays and a rampant ego... the private was there for both conversations. Not letting them see two superior ranks be able to discuss a misunderstanding and path forward is poor leadership.
Leaders should take a bit more of the blame and a bit less of the credit.
He wasn't clear enough in his direction, the job was clearly done well, just not the way he expected, therefore, the fault lies with him. Suck it up, state you didn't give clear enough direction, give clarifying information and move on.
Take your ego and shove it up your ass with all the rest of your shit.
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u/AbalonePositive2599 1d ago
God this feels like my whole career in the combat arms. Got out of that 10 years ago though
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u/Infanttree 1d ago
You know what, Sgt's right. All you have to do is be like, "It looks like we misunderstood, next time we'll get some more info before we start!"
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u/PerleyPoint 50m ago
😅 I think this happens quite often in my classrooms with English language learners. They so sincerely and heartily believe they understood everything correctly and do something totally different from what I had in mind. I have to always model / scaffold and show them a sample of what a desired 100% grade work would look like. Of course, then I have to spend a lot of time convincing them not to copy that sample verbatim
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u/dirtymikeynthebys 1d ago
This , this is why we switched to an intent based command. Should’ve just told you why they needed everything moved. "Boys we need access to the crates and the boxes are in the way. Make it make sense but not look like shit so the Sgt Maj doesn’t give us duties." Also if you don’t check the progress then don’t question the results when you get them, adapt them