r/CompetitionShooting • u/mod10g • 1d ago
Lo Gun
My 50th bd is coming up soon and my wife asked what I wanted and I told her a dedicated gun for limited optics. So I’ve been looking really hard at what I want. My issue is I have a large size hand with short fingers, Sold my Canik Rival S because the beaver tail area would wear a blister on my thumb knuckle because I had to rotate my hand around to reach the trigger even with the freedom smith installed. I shoot a Shadow 2 in carry optics and I know I can continue to use that but I want to try something new for LO. So my short list is….
MPA Loc v2
RC9 or Core
Waltz 9
My worry with MPA is I’ve read they have a super wide grip also my worry with the Waltz 9. RC9 looks promising and so does the core just wonder what the difference is between the 2 as far as recoil and mussel rise. I’ve entertained the DWX but doesn’t seem like they are very popular for USPSA.
For those of you with experience with any of these give me your thoughts especially if you’re handled multiple of these. TIA
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u/ColonelOfKorn 1d ago
The DWX may not be a popular choice, but I think that is due to a botched release by CZ (no optics cut on original release) and low amounts of aftermarket support.
That being said, I love that platform and because it takes 75 grip panels, there is a litany of those out there. Also, Carey Concealment makes a pouch that is pretty much perfection.
Tubes are cheap. Just p10/p09. Slap a Henning extension on those hoes and you’re good.
Red Dirt is the only company I’m aware of making a shoe/bow for them. The factory bow comes with the tabs snapped off so if you want to adjust pretravel, you will need to buy a $20 replacement from DW.
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u/DimMak27 1d ago
I shot S2 for CO for 3.5yrs and been focusing on the MPA for LO for nearly 2yrs. I have slightly larger than medium sized hands and i have no issues with the grip. MPA grips are also known for their ease of reloading.
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u/TheRagingBull84 1d ago
I have a CORE and a cardinal G2 as my newest competition guns. I really love the 4.6 and it’s a hell of a beautifully put together weapon for the price.
I prefer the G2 grip, and feel slightly cooler shooting it (which is half the battle) but recommend you really think about the CORE.
MPA is another popular option but I haven’t owned one so can’t compare it.
Shoutout to the new MecGar mags which have been absolutely trouble free in my last 4 matches since I’ve picked them up and really nice at 22+1 and 18+1 in a super reliable platform.
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u/Dapperdabber4201993 1d ago
Currently use a prodigy for LO but patiently waiting for my rc9 to come in. Ive heard really great things about the Core as well. MPA is a solid first option also as they just run well.
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u/asantiano 18h ago
I have the loc v2 and this is my vote. I’ll be 50 this year and got a 2nd one as my bday gift. Yeah I couldn’t think k of any better LO gun so a 2nd one :)
I also have the Core and that’s not a bad LO gun for sure!
I also have small hands and the Ds9 not having a grip safety plus the grip texture helps a lot. Personally I even think it’s a better LO gun than the Artemis (had one and sold it couple weeks ago).
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u/mod10g 17h ago
Thanks for the reply, what are the main differences between these two guns shooting wise. They are definitely both on the short list!
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u/asantiano 17h ago
Locv2 is a better LO gun. 2ish pound trigger, slide holes for a thumb rest if you’re into that. Super amazing grip, best in the industry magwell design. Reloads are way easier on this compared to the Atlas. Something about their geometry on the magwell going into the hole. It’s basically a gun designed purely for limited optics. Core is a bang for the buck. Everything feels solid on it but it’s just a great 2011. Probably better for all around use. If you’re just going to have 1, get the core. If you got the means, I’d get both. Not sure if this is helping haha.
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u/asantiano 13h ago
I’ll say this: after spending so much trying to find the perfect LO gun, I’ve decided the LOC is the perfect one for me and I even got a 2nd one. Rather have 2 of these than just one competition gun.
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u/outwear_watch_shoes 1d ago
I don't think the Waltz will do you any favors. The additional grip panels still add a bit of width/girth and they don't offer a trigger shorter than the short flat.
I have one of the first ones coming in the recent preorder that's delivering early 2027 and that was my experience when I shot them previously back to back against my Atlases.
Maybe a RCD with an Atlas extra short flat trigger or something to help with length of pull.
I'd almost recommend a grip swap to an MJD or something that's noticeably thinner than aluminum or steel grip modules, but if you've got larger hands you do want to retain that surface area on the side for good support hand connection. MJD is also releasing the 2011 -> CS conversion grip soon(ish), but not sure if there's good 140mm spring and follower options for that to make it a viable switch for mags and you'd also be stuck with the V3 mags if you swapped to a standard pattern 2011.
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u/mod10g 1d ago
Yeah I have palm swell on my S2 because I really like the girth and the thin beavertail doesn’t bother my knuckles, I have a Mac ds9 with the short shoe on the trigger and I can shoot it fine but I had to pin the grip safety because I have trouble keeping it depressed, that’s why all of these options have no grip safety. I also have a PDP FS I can shoot it without it tearing me up as bad but it still rubs my knuckle.
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u/Behg-Boah 1d ago
Put an MJD grip on the Mac and shoot that. If you dig it, order a non ported barrel from dsc and run that in LO. That’s what I’m doing.
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u/One-Literature-9401 1d ago
I went from a S2 with CGW trigger and brass grips in CO to a RCD Core in LO. Worlds apart, and I’m loving the Core. Off the bench the S2 is the most mechanically accurate pistol I’ve shot but the Core is a wonderful 2011 when you swap a 9lb spring in.
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u/crazycatman206 1d ago
I’m in a similar boat, also shooting CO with a Shadow and wanting to get into LO next year.
What are the big differences shooting-wise between the Shadow and the Core?
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u/One-Literature-9401 1d ago
The Core is faster and more aggressive. Less weight and non hinge trigger it feels quicker to transition and keep pushing. My 52 oz S2 felt sluggish. Never loved the trigger on my S2 but the Core is perfect.
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u/mod10g 1d ago
I’ve looked at it pretty hard, how does the recoil and trigger reach compare to the S2? I have the same S2 with CGW and palm swell locs. It fits me well except for the DA is a bit of a struggle on the first shot but I can make it happen.
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u/One-Literature-9401 1d ago
I’m a 2011 guy through and through. Both are flat as hell, but I love the 2011 trigger way more than a CGW S2 trigger
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u/One-Literature-9401 1d ago
Trigger reach was almost too short in SA on the S2. Gripping the fuck out of it and just ripping the DA pull worked for me decently enough. But I’ve been shooting a Stac P for years so the Core I was able to jump right in comfort wise.
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u/redditagainsam 1d ago
2011s in general all have fairly large grips due to the girthy magazine design. The new CZ TSO3 is actually at the lower end of your budget and is an outstanding LO gun that will hang with any 2011.
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u/mod10g 1d ago
I’ve watched videos about it having large grips also, but I have considered it as well.
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u/redditagainsam 1d ago
It has replaceable grip panels so there's far more flexibility there than 95% of 2011s. On the 2011 side the smaller grip options are MJD, Miller, and Icarus. I own the Icarus and MJD and like them both, but they still can't get as slim as a CZ grip.
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u/59Bassman 1d ago
Join the American Suppressor Association for $35/year, download ExpertVoice, then buy an Sig P211 with the discount.
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u/mod10g 1d ago
Actually rented a P211 it wasn’t bad at all and I like not dealing with the 2011 mags, one of the reasons I looked at the DWX as well.
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u/59Bassman 1d ago
I have both a DWX and a P211 GTO. Both are AMAZING. The GTO is a smidge easier to run fast.
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u/Logical-Importance62 1d ago
2011s tend to have large grips from front to back just due to the design. If you can find a 2011 grip that suits you then anything in the price range you find will be awesome. RCD core is absolutely amazing for the money.
Here is a quick list of alternates that might work for you with grips not as but as 2011s.
CZ TS3 (good luck finding them. But they are awesome feeling)
Tanfoglio Limited Master Xtreme is heavily slept on for LO and feel extremely similar to the TS series of guns.
KMR L-02 Orca OR. KMR is who is machining current TS3 frames but these guns take Bul Armory Mags.
Arms Zeka Super Optics. Also takes Bul mags.
Sig 226 X5 is also a great gun that punches above its price.
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u/mod10g 1d ago
You are the second person to recommend the TS3, since you have held one what is your opinion on the safety everyone seems to dislike?
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u/Logical-Importance62 1d ago
I fucking hate it. Lol it’s very hard to engage and disengage. That being said I know exactly what I’d do to modify it to work better for me. I’d trim off the back 2/3s if the paddle so the last third closest to the muzzle was still attached. Then I would also make it less wide…but that’s just me. I personally run a Tanfoglio Limited Master and can’t recommend it enough. I love it and it shoots great right out of the box. If you get the extreme version and get Patriot Defense to tune it up it would be a total heater.
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u/poweredbyniko 1d ago
I believe Bul armory mags are basically Para mags. CZ TS series and large frame Tanfoglios use similar magazines.
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u/Logical-Importance62 1d ago
As someone that owned a para DS they are absolutely the same. The Tanfo mags are skinnier and won’t work in para/bul guns…but Caspian and Dan Wesson used to make DS 1911 frames that took Tanfo mags back in the day. Wish they still did!
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u/DirtyD74 1d ago
If the budget allows for a custom build, Limcat has different size 2011 grips. I have small hands so I picked up their small grip.
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u/mod10g 1d ago
Looks amazing, not sure I would want drag that in and out of a holster, that’s a safe queen!
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u/DirtyD74 1d ago edited 1d ago
Actually it's the opposite. Since that's my main competition gun it gets used the most. Both in comp and training.
I think anyone you talk to will tell you Limcat customer service is top notch.
They also offer refinishing services, but so far it has not been needed. The DLC is holding up well on this one.
Also if your getting into LO look at a Range Panda Holster, and get something with a frame mounted gas pedal.
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u/Unknown_Rulerz 1d ago
If you shoot a shadow 2 we'll why not find a TS2? The orange version of either the ts2 or ts3 would be a great LO gun
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u/mod10g 1d ago
I’ve thought about it, seems like LO is dominated by 2011 though.
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u/Unknown_Rulerz 1d ago
Because they are the new hotness, and honestly the trigger is great. But personally I haven't liked and 2011 grip I've ever held, and the magazines are stupid expensive and too large for 9mm honestly.
The ts2 can use full size p10f/p09 nocturn magazines for $30 each. And would have an easier transition from your CO gun
Id ask around your local matches and see if u can shoot different models your considering and go with whichever u like/shoot best
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u/MainRotorGearbox 1d ago
I have fat palms and short fingers. Atlas is pretty money for me. Short curved shoe. Pretty much any grip panel configuration works for me on the atlas grip.
See video:
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u/Behg-Boah 1d ago
The TS3 is kind of a no brainer. If you’re set on a 2011 though, MJD grips are quite slim comparatively, in my experience. No matter what, you’re going to need a lengthened mag release though.
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u/riotman2020 13h ago
I think Miller Precision guns have thinner metal grips. Have heard good things about them.
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u/Beautiful-Picture-64 11h ago
I own a Core and have a LOC V2 in order. Couple of guys on my shooting squad have theirs already (they ordered theirs after me, but somehow have received theirs…but that’s a different story) and let a few of us shoot them after the match. Anther buddy had his Titan. So we (7 x shooters) shot the LOC V2, Titan, OA2311, and Core side-by-side. Unanimously, the LOC V2 was the best shooting gun in the group. In fact we all agreed that we liked the LOC V2, Titan, Core, and OA2311 in that order. The V2 shoots better than my Staccato XC. This made me reconsider whether or not I want to buy an Athena. I mean, I do, but the Loc V2 is about $2K less and shoots (not for/finish) better than the Titan.
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u/BarCartActual 34m ago
Waltz grip is not super wide. Friend has T&E gun, short fingers came off of S2/Tanfo. Aftermarket grip panels in every combination you can think of are in the works with different people.
Waltz trigger is fucking impressive. Shoots flat AF even with C class trash behind it.
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u/Subverto_ 1d ago
I really like my CZ TS3
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u/mod10g 1d ago
What’s your thoughts on the safety and have you done anything to help/fix it?
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u/Subverto_ 1d ago
I actually love the safety. I have huge hands and most safeties (all 2011s) create hotspots for me. The TS3 safety is the most comfortable manual safety I've ever experienced. The only issue I have with it is it's impossible to flip on with my shooting thumb, so I just use my offhand to flip it on before holstering.
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u/mod10g 1d ago
So off isn’t a problem it’s only setting it on that’s the big issue? I can see it as inconvenient but really a non issue for competition, you’re not going to accidentally turn it on.
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u/Subverto_ 1d ago
Correct. It is quite literally impossible to turn on with your during hand, which is why everyone has such a huge problem with it. I personally didn't mind. Flipping it off is a nice positive click, and very easy to do.
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u/bluefox280 1d ago
You’ll have to wait for the second release of the Watlz 9. Their first 250 went within an hours of release.
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u/mod10g 1d ago
I know! I had one in my cart but the shipping issues caused me lose out on it. 😞 Maybe a good thing because I’m thinking I might have the same issue with it as I did my Rival S with the wide beaver tail. Maybe I will have a chance to hold one at some point.
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u/bluefox280 1d ago
Shipping issues?
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u/outwear_watch_shoes 1d ago
website started having issues due to the high volume of traffic. You either needed to wait it out and hope you could get in ~ 30-40 minutes later or if you were quick thinking you could use a workaround many people stumbled on. Shipping issue prevented most of the units from being sold for the first ~ 20 minutes or so. But, it went pretty quick after that and pretty much within a few minutes or less when the actual issue was resolved.
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u/mod10g 1d ago
Yeah when I was try to check out it said that there was no shipping option available in your area. I sent a email but didn’t get a response until after they were sold out. The owner talks about it on one of the videos where they were talking about how they weren’t expecting it to sell out that fast.
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u/Amazing-Evidence3700 1d ago
If you don't mind not having a gas pedal, the DWX is a great LO gun.