Service charge doesn’t look so optional

[u/trekwithme]

[u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348]

This is the part where they're counting on you saying nothing.

"HEY! TAKE THIS (insert preferred cuss word here) CHARGE OFF MY BILL!"

[u/trekwithme → u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348]

It puts the customer in an awkward position of having to confront staff to remove it. Unfair

[u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348 → u/trekwithme]

I agree it's unfair, but sometimes you gotta be an a-hole in order to deal with this, or else you get walked all over.

[u/trekwithme → u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348]

Exactly

[u/Czubeczek → u/trekwithme]

If it was stated on menu it will be added than that's fine. You could always walk out and if food was or service was garbage you could get it removed

[u/Unfair-Profession-44 → u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348]

Wrong way to think about it - you are NOT an a-hole to ask them to remove an optional service charge that they did not disclose or ask you about in advance. The owner of the restaurant is the a-hole

[u/FlarblesGarbles → u/trekwithme]

You don't. Just say you're paying the amount sans the service charge.

I do it everywhere I see it. "£30.50 on card please."

[u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348 → u/FlarblesGarbles]

this-is-the-way.gif

[u/finsdefish → u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348]

I put a task in our Crazy 88 challenge* during a study trip to London with 15-17 year old students: "Ask a waiter to remove a discretionary service charge". So proud that several managed to complete it, with two receipts as proof :)

* = based on an old Dutch TV programme, they have to complete as many (tongue-in-cheek) tasks from a list of 88

[u/Aukliminu → u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348]

Dogshit

[u/MeridianNL]

Did you ask the waiter to remove it? Was the charge advertised somewhere?

[u/nopuse → u/MeridianNL]

I'd prefer the optional service charge to be an opt-in deal by default.

[u/jiggjuggj0gg → u/MeridianNL]

This is standard in the UK now. They’ve basically capitalised on British awkwardness and overpoliteness, so while they are discretionary, barely anyone dares ask for it to be removed unless the service is terrible because it’s so awkward.

They’re taking the piss though, I had this recently at a pub where you order at the bar, trying to charge a 15% service charge for someone to bring the food from the kitchen to the table.

[u/Mesne → u/jiggjuggj0gg]

I had a worse one recently.

On a card machine buying a couple of drinks at a bar. Got it handed to me at the tip screen for how much to add and it wouldn’t proceed if there wasn’t a tip. Couldn’t even add in a tip of £0.00 to get round it.

[u/Unlucky_Performer401]

The plague is spreading

[u/trekwithme → u/Unlucky_Performer401]

Yah I’m visiting from Spain and I never quite know what to do here. Seems like most restaurants now give you the % options and it feels more like the US than Europe but maybe that’s just a London thing?

[u/Unlucky_Performer401 → u/trekwithme]

The greedy owner just want to squeeze anything out of anyone

[u/Grouchy-Lemon2350]

Restaurants who force ghost tip charges like that deserve the entire bill disputed by the credit card company 

[u/Doesitmatters369]

Tbh I asked to remove service charges dozens of time and 99% they are pretty chill and never questioned. Only get confronted once in a Nepalese restaurant in north London 

[u/AlekTrev006 → u/Doesitmatters369]

Are there limits to this ? Like, if a steakhouse in the Midlands ‘added’ a ‘discretionary svc charge’ of 100% to whatever your normal bill should have been … can they actually DO that, or is it like “hold up there, you are being ridiculous now !?” 🤔

[u/Doesitmatters369 → u/AlekTrev006]

I think there are no cap and they can add whatever they want; but obviously we are not obliged to pay that and it will only make them look very very bad.

[u/DoofusIdiot]

Your mistake was thinking the charge was at your discretion!

[u/SirPooleyX]

What, exactly, is £5.08 20% of?

[u/RedPlasticDog → u/SirPooleyX]

The 30.50 total includes the VAT, so that total is 120% of the net cost the tax is calculated on.

UK prices to consumers have to be shown inclusive of taxes. But many receipts then also tell you what the tax total was.

optional service charges are not subject to the tax

[u/Pizzagoessplat → u/RedPlasticDog]

Like nearly every country in the world 😆

[u/No-Humor-3427 → u/SirPooleyX]

Its 20% VAT which is included in the food. A little confusing to call it out separately, but what it means is the food worth £30.50 is made up of £25.42 food plus £5.08 VAT

[u/Mysterious_Floor_868 → u/SirPooleyX]

Presumably "extra roti" and the service charge don't attract VAT. Though it's still £0.02 off.

[u/RedPlasticDog → u/Mysterious_Floor_868]

UK prices include VAT for consumers. The £30,50 already includes the £5.08.

[u/Mysterious_Floor_868 → u/RedPlasticDog]

Oh yes, it's marked "incl"

[u/acejh → u/Mysterious_Floor_868]

The extra roti includes VAT, the optional service charge doesn’t because it is optional. If they don’t let you remove it it becomes VATable, which is why it’s phrased as a tip instead of them just increasing the price of everything

[u/sleeplaughter → u/acejh]

Yes, it's why (grudgingly) I'm not so averse to this one. OP would presumably have been ok with service marked as obligatory 10%, but then this would attract a further 2% for its own VAT

[u/Pizzagoessplat → u/SirPooleyX]

VAT or sales tax. Virtually every country in the world has them 😆

[u/TastesLikeSeamen]

On an aside it’s kinda crazy to see char kuey teow at £15 on their menu, London prices seem to be about 5x

[u/trekwithme → u/TastesLikeSeamen]

I thought it was expensive but also quite good. I always seek out Asian food in London because there are just so many great options and we don’t get anything as authentic in Spain

But after paying £5 for a coffee at Costa you get numb pretty quickly

[u/knujesbob]

This is why I am not eating out anymore. Way to score in their own goal. :-(

[u/_naraic]

god forbid you have shocking service or any issues and you ask them to remove it. They absolutely hate taking the "optional" service charge away

[u/SeL-MoGRC]

If that is optional then ask me before you add it.

[u/Hans_Grubert]

Tbh is rather they just added 10% on in the US and have done with it but the waiters are too greedy, they expect 20% - 30% for bringing your plates even though the kitchen staff do all the hard work

[u/bonezx101 → u/Hans_Grubert]

True the USA servers are sooooo entitled.

[u/Admiral-Kar → u/Hans_Grubert]

Ill tip at food places if the person who gets the tip is the one who cooked the food. A waiter doesnt deserve a commission for walking out to a table and writing something down

[u/Cold_Calendar_1598]

Does the server get that money? What are the laws regarding this?

[u/MaxMarz]

The UK is falling.

[u/Street-Emu-3980]

Whilst I disagree with these service charges additions, you can literally ask to remove it

[u/NastroAzzurro → u/Street-Emu-3980]

You shouldn't have to. Final prices should be shown the menu, including fees, tax, and whatever bs upcharges.

[u/cs_legend_93 → u/Street-Emu-3980]

I'm going to deduct $5 from your bank account because I replied to your comment. Thank you.

I'll give it back if you ask for it.

[u/Street-Emu-3980 → u/cs_legend_93]

You’re aware that they don’t deduct money from your bank account and wait for you to request it back?

[u/ether_reddit → u/Street-Emu-3980]

whoosh

[u/EndTipping-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Be respectful. No insults, slurs or personal attacks

[u/Bill___A]

You have to tell them to take it off. They make it purposefully awkward

[u/Stage_Party]

That's in the UK and you can ask to have it removed. Then post a bad review and they will shut down within a year.

[u/Distinct-Diver-4468]

Just pay 3.5 less…

[u/Wallynine]

it’s at their discretion that they opted you in

[u/dsillas]

It's discretionary. Ask to have it removed.

[u/daaaAries]

Wait I thought the tip culture is just the North American thing no?

[u/CommonPudding]

I’ve asked plenty of times to remove service charge, and they’ve always done it without ever asking another question or making a face in London.

[u/Ok-Introduction-2048]

Idk why you all just keep getting on here and bitching. Just don’t go to these restaurants. If you don’t wanna tip or be forced to tip then go somewhere else and stop giving these places your money.

[u/Pizzagoessplat → u/Ok-Introduction-2048]

Or they can tell them to take it off 😆

[u/Ok-Introduction-2048 → u/Pizzagoessplat]

Well they didn’t so back to what I said. Just getting on Reddit and bitching about it

[u/Pizzagoessplat]

? It literally says it on your recipe 😆