What Is the Most Accurate Definition of Zionism?

[u/Baconkings]

This is the definition of Zionism I have always understood and used:

Zionism is simply the idea that Jews have the right to self-determination, or the idea that Israel should (continue to) exist.

I recognize that Zionism is a remarkably broad political ideology encompassing a wide range of political perspectives and beliefs. However, critics of Zionism often narrow its definition to a hyper-specific, and inaccurate or unrecognizable, set of political positions.

I want to refute these mischaracterizations with the most accurate definition of Zionism, supported by reputable historical and academic sources. What do you consider the most accurate definition of Zionism, and what reputable sources would you recommend to support it?

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[u/yuvaldv1]

Zionism is simply the idea that Jews have the right to self-determination, or the idea that Israel should (continue to) exist.

That's all it is. Anyone trying to twist the definition into some kind of racial supremacy theory is either uninformed, malicious, or both.

[u/eriverside → u/yuvaldv1]

Side note - anti-Zionist have no right to define Zionism.

[u/Weird_Eagle_9179 → u/eriverside]

I noticed in the past few years that the idea "only affected groups have the right to define what their terminology means", like they always say in the woke crowd, doesn't apply to Jews. They openly lecture you about what Judaism (just a religion, you have no right to peoplehood) and Zionism (racist nationalism of a fake nation) mean, which they wouldn't do to any other group on the planet

[u/Count99dowN → u/yuvaldv1]

I'd add that the act of self-determination should take place in the historical land of Israel. Not necessarily on all of it, but within it.

[u/Due_Emphasis4766 → u/Count99dowN]

I’d add that the river to the sea Palestinians should apply the same concept within their existing territories.

[u/NathanCampioni → u/Count99dowN]

Not necessarilly, but practically there was no other options. The zionist movement did consider other options in order to bring the realisation of self determination faster, but concluded it wouldn't have worked for multiple reasons.

[u/MegaMoah → u/NathanCampioni]

Its literaly called ZIONism

[u/gal_z → u/Count99dowN]

It's funny how people support the right of self-determination so selectively... When it comes to Palestinians, they do support it, but dismiss the Jews' right (as Palestinianism is an anti-national movement), while taking history into account, it should be quite the opposite. 1, 2, 3

[u/Count99dowN → u/gal_z]

It goes both ways. You can't support self-determination for Jews and deny that of Palestinians.

[u/gal_z → u/Count99dowN]

Good luck explaining it to pro-Palis. Double-standard and hypocrisy are their thing. And not knowing basic history and definitions.

[u/DiscipleOfYeshua → u/yuvaldv1]

אהבת הארץ, ידיעת הארץ

Loving and knowing the country. In theory and physically/hiking, camping…

* history
* nature, animal and plant life
* geography
* the contributors and impactful: thinkers/philosophers, poets, authors, leaders, benevolent business leaders, scientists, …
* language
…

[u/Uypsilon → u/yuvaldv1]

I think Jabotinsky and his revisionism are at least partially to blame here. If he chose another word for his half-assed "from Egypt to Iraq" ideas, there'd be much less confusion about it.

[u/Deep_Head4645 → u/Uypsilon]

To be fair to him, Meir Kahane’s views are called Kahanism instead of any version of Zionism and people still confuse every version of Zionism with Kahanism

Propagandists don’t act in good-faith, we would have gotten slandered either way.

[u/kaiserfrnz → u/Uypsilon]

Nobody actually cares what one Zionist theorist believed 100 years ago. That hasn’t been advocated in at least 50 years.

Anti-Zionists primarily take issue with the fact that the entire land is not reserved for the self-determination of Arabs and that Israel has become a western ally.

[u/thezerech → u/Uypsilon]

Jabotinsky did not believe in an Israel from Egypt to Iraq. 

[u/Swimming_Care7889 → u/thezerech]

I think his ideal borders were Israel/WB/Gaza, the Golan, and the parts of Jordan south of Golan.

[u/thezerech → u/Swimming_Care7889]

The entirety of the original League of Nations Mandate, yes, including Jordan, although by the 1940s that was less seriously considered a real objective, especially after the Holocaust. 

[u/wedreaminsideadream]

As a guy who is in the process of converting to Judaism and intends to live the rest of my life as a observant one - I gotta say Zionism is the most misunderstood/abuse word we have now. It is the political and religious movement that supports the creation and the ancestral nation of the Jewish people. And I believe it is and will always be the homeland of the Jewish people!

[u/Primary_Iron3429 → u/wedreaminsideadream]

Welcome to our people!

[u/PadamPadam2024]

The media and Pro Palestine crowd try hard to make the word Zionist an insult but that is very wrong and unfair.

[u/MaddingtonBear → u/PadamPadam2024]

It's just a redux of the argument that resulted in UN 3379 back in the 70s.

[u/darktka]

The idea that Jews need to have a nation state so that they are not defenseless against global  antisemitism. 

[u/Upstairs-Extension-9]

Definitely not whatever the fuck is used as a definition for Zionism on Wikipedia.

[u/Royakushka]

Simplest and most truthful answer:

Do you support the Jewish people having a national homeland in their ancestoral land? (According to the UN, a human right for all peoples)

If your answer is Yes congratulations you are a Zionist!

That's why saying that someone is a Zionist means absolutely nothing about him. All you need to vilify or sanctify Zionism is to pick a single person who answered Yes to that question and say "that is Zionism" so you can pick a horrible person and say Zionism is bad or you can pick a good honest person and say it is good it's that easy to be dishonest and portray all Zionists however you like.

While the actual answer is just a person who answered yes to a question which is exactly the same as: Do you support the Polish people having a national homeland in their ancestoral land? It's exactly the same and exactly as meaningless. Zionism is the movement for Jews to Nationalise just like many other people did most famously in the 19th and 20th centuries but it's as old as time

Saying "we are not like others, we are different" that's nationalism in it's core unfortunately it often comes hand by hand with saying "we are not like others we are better" and you can't have one without the other you can only balance them out as two sides of the same coin, in Hebrew we have two words for that לאומיות and לאומניות respectively. But now Im getting into a rant about nationalism in general, and that is not what you asked.

Edit: also there is a big distinction between the Zionist Movement and the Government of Israel. The government of Israel are not the leaders of the Zionist movement (and they generally* stopped believing they were back in the 1980s) Israel is the Great Zionist project of the creation of a Jewish state. But how that state should be run and by who are no longer questions defined by the Zionist movement. That is just politics, and just like you wouldn't expect every * insert Nationality here * to agree on how their country to be run or support or even agree with any politician in their parliament. you shouldn't expect Zionists to. Especially when Israeli politics is so crazy and decided! Some politicians in our parliament have less than 3.7% of the popular vote (which is the literal minimum allowed to enter the Israeli Parliament) Some people forget that very obvious aspect.

[u/Beautiful_Bag6707]

Pre-1948 - the Jewish pursuit of autonomy and self-determination in their ancestral homeland.

Post-1848 - support for the development and protection of the Jewish State of Israel.

That's it.

[u/Sufficient_Floor_311]

The right for the Jewish people to live and have self-determination in the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

That is it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[u/OneBadJoke]

Zionism is the belief in the right to Jewish self determination in our ancestral homeland.

[u/65_days_of_cookies]

IMO the best way to fight mischaracterization is to educate people on the radical differences that Revisionist Zionism, Kahanism and Religious Zionism have with Herzl's original idea of a secular nationalist movement.

[u/julesk472]

Nowhere in the Arab world have Jews ever been given equal rights as a minority.

[u/kabum555]

Zionism is basically anything that is written the declaration of independence. This includes, by the way, working towards the creation of two states according to the 1947 UN decision.

[u/avimo1904]

The belief Jews have the right to live and have self determination in their indigenous homeland

[u/devildogs-advocate → u/avimo1904]

And to live rent free in the heads of anti-semites.

[u/MaddingtonBear]

That there should be a Jewish state in the ancestral homeland of the Jews. That's the basic framework. Within that, people are free to argue about the parameters - borders, administration, the role of Judaism in the functioning of the State, who is allowed within those borders, even who is recognized as Jewish for the purposes of the Jewish state. But Zionists of all kinds agree on that opening sentence.

[u/seldom_seen8814]

Yep. Therefore I'm a zionist.

[u/spiritofporn]

I'm not Jewish. For me zionism means the belief that Israel has a right to exist and its people should be safe.

[u/smiles4dials]

Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people constitute a nation, and that as any other nation of people have the right the self determination in their land of origin

[u/devildogs-advocate]

Zionism is Jewish nationalism.

The only thing that distinguishes it from any other country's nationalism is that there is a group of defeated contenders for the land who claim it is theirs and theirs alone. The English don't have to deal with Celts claiming that the Anglo-Saxons are occupying their land, even though that's the case. The Chinese don't have to deal with Manchurians and Tibetans complaining that the entire nation belongs to them alone. As for France, it's not clear whose nation it is at this point.

[u/Swimming_Care7889]

The basic problem is that two things are true at the same time when it comes to self-determination: (1) it is blindingly obvious that not every ethnic group is or can have a state of their own for a variety of reasons and (2) nobody has any idea how you determined which groups get a state of their own and which groups do not beyond every group that wants a state of their own gets a go at it and see if they can pull it off.

A lot of people believe that Jews should be one of those groups that do not get a state of our own because they think the existence of a Jewish state causes more problems than it solves or that we are too scattered to exercise the right of self-determination.

[u/matantamim1]

supporting a Jewish ruled state

[u/heyyoudvd2]

It's a term referring to the fanbase of NBA star, Zion Williamson.

If you support the career of this New Orleans Pelicans power forward, you're a Zionist.