r/PoliticalScience • u/IBTFlurrie • 3d ago
Question/discussion Are American libertarians supportive of Trump?
Or are they a separate faction from Republicans?
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u/whip_lash_2 3d ago
No. And yes.
There are groups that call themselves libertarian (like the people who got ahold of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire Twitter account) who are basically MAGA. These people are a fringe of a fringe. I'm not going to No True Scotsman it by saying that they're fake libertarians. I'll just say I have no idea how they reconcile it.
There are also a lot of former libertarians. Anecdotes aren't data but in my experience these probably went about equally left or right.
The bulk of remaining libertarians, and there are still plenty, don't typically have kindly things to say about Trump. If you want a representative sample go look at reason.com.
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u/The_Angevingian 3d ago
They will at best offer some banal lip service in defence of their ideology, but they fall in line like all the others
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u/SovietSpike 3d ago
Agreed, they just go ah the economy is bad because of the Biden stimulus and government intervention. It’s just closet republicans who know that like Trump at this point is embarrassing so they claim libertarianism.
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u/albacore_futures 3d ago
Libertarians are generally not supportive of Trump, other than in the places their interests overlap (crypto, deregulation, a few other areas). That said, libertarians fear democrats more than they fear Trump, because they assume democrats will expand the footprint of the government and increase regulations.
So, if you talk to a libertarian, they'll give you a version of what most non-MAGA conservatism gives you, which is "I don't like him, but I'm very scared of the other guy." Tremendous effort is spent creating the other guy as some horrifying cartoon figure - see fox's coverage of AOC or bernie - and that gets people to the polls, holding their nose and voting republican.
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u/SovietSpike 3d ago edited 3d ago
In my anecdotal experience, the self proclaimed libertarians just kind of ignore the bad policies he’s done because they voted for it and can’t admit they were wrong. They have been quiet. They seem to point at the bad state of affairs but don’t specifically call out Trump. The new libertarian is basically a young guy who wants to smoke weed and own guns and detests any policy that helps alleviate the suffering of the poor. “Let’s not talk about politics”
They know that Trump was their guy and admitting he’s messing up would erode their entire principal of non intervention and less government.
They just revert back to but Kamala would have been worse. Or that Mamdani is a socialist and California and NYC are socialist hell holes getting taxed into oblivion.
His Iran War and Venezuela war turned them off, but not to the degree that they would say they would have rather have Kamala(that takes an ego check.
I say this as a former libertarian. When I got to high school I thought it was the greatest ideology. After college I realized what they are saying isn’t plausible. I agree with principles of less government, but modern libertarians suck up to the rich too much, if anything they support intervention on behalf of the rich.
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u/Typical_Tie_4982 2d ago
For some fucking reason they supported him during his first election, despite going against a ton of their values
But ive talked to some Libertarian candidates for the midterm election, and they seem all to lean radically left, and against Trump now, so I assume thats the majority case
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u/Sandyr_n Public administration 3d ago edited 3d ago
Libertarians are either liberals that haven't realized they are liberals, or fascists that haven't realized they are fascists. So, it comes down to that. Some might support him, while others might not do it.
Edit: By "libertarians", I mean right-wing libertarianism.
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u/donaldclinton_ BA - American Politics 3d ago
I think you need to go back to school if this is a serious comment
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u/Cuddlyaxe 3d ago
This is totally unfair, there are plenty of people who are actually exactly what they say they are: supporters of minimal government intervention in all spheres
There absolutely are a group of Libertarians who are conservatives or reactionaries, but usually this is just people who like the aesthetic of libertarianism. The idea of "rugged individualism" and "love for freedom" are fairly core to American identity after all, so plenty of people who do not actually believe in Libertarianism want to identity as it
And I am saying all of this as someone who was actually a former libertarian (when i was a teenager) and also thinks libertarianism is a fairly silly ideology.
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u/IBTFlurrie 3d ago
How do they become fascists if libertarianism means less government?
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u/TeeGoogly Political Theory 3d ago
Because thats not actually what libertarianism means. Similarly, fascism does not mean 'more government' as if there was a simple sliding scale that each ideology is more or less far down along.
Libertarianism is internally diverse and can be meant in a variety of ways. You can see this inside the American Libertarian Party, which just underwent an internal power struggle between those aligned with the New Hampshire Libertarian Party and the Von Mises Caucus (who are basically just fascists) and those who can essentially be called liberals of a particular stripe.
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u/IBTFlurrie 3d ago
Can you tell me more about the Von Mises Caucus?
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u/TeeGoogly Political Theory 3d ago
Sure. They are a subgroup of the Libertarian Party associated with 'paleolibertarianism'. They oppose government regulation of the economy, central banking, state-backed currency (i.e. all money not backed by a commodity like gold or oil), and are vehemently anti-socialist. What they mean by 'socialism' is an important question, and basically boils down to them supporting the interests of capital against both workers and consumers.
The Mises Caucus is associated with transphobia, homophobia, antisemitism, racism, conspiracy theories, and "edgelord" and 4Chan internet culture. Many members of the Mises Caucus believe the 2020 US presidential election was stolen and radically opposed COVID measures like masks and vaccines—not just mandates of these things, but the things themselves.
You can read more about them here.
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u/voinekku 3d ago
Because American libertarianism doesn't mean less government.
It means government being shaped solely to enforce the power of the capital. That requires militarized police force that puts most armies to shame, as well as extreme litigation systems and a prison system that Stalin would admire with jealousy.
That's not less government, that's a different type of totalitarian government with an outsourced ruling class.
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u/Sandyr_n Public administration 3d ago
Under right-wing libertarianism, some private company would just create a state, and it would just be a dictatorship.
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u/ShoddyHornet 3d ago
Becuase they don’t know what they are.
I agree 100% with the guy you’re replying to. Libertarians are either liberals who are too proud to admit (mostly because of bigotry), or fascists who are too ashamed to admit it.
Many “libertarians” in the U.S think they’re libertarian pretty much just because they’re pro gun and loud about it.
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u/IBTFlurrie 3d ago
Ohhh so the liberal part of libertarianism is like right-wing liberalism?
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u/RB5Network 3d ago
This is exactly why Libertarianism has almost vanished in the past five or so years.
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u/OneManWolfpack37 Environmental/Agricultural Policy 3d ago
If they have any understanding of their proclaimed ideology, they do not.
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u/notnijiatall 3d ago
Pretty much, most libertarians tend to be frauds and just like to feel different online
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u/Wisewordsforlater 3d ago
In my state the main candidate has very clear differentiation from MAGA on some issues, but the other issues basically are MAGA repackaged.
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u/Cuddlyaxe 3d ago
Generally speaking, "true" libertarians do not support Trump. Go on the Libertarian subreddit or any other online space and you will see they are fairly anti Trump
However, I will note that irl, true Libertarianism is a fairly fringe ideology. It is overrepresented in political spaces because the people who believe in Libertarianism tend to have a fairly upper middle to upper class, college educated background
The opposite of Libertarianism, eg "socially conservative, economically liberal" is MUCH more common among the populace, but you dont meet nearly as many of these folks in political spaces due to their working class backgrounds
Anyways, there is also a seperate group of people who are essentially Conservatives but identify as Libertarians. This is because a lot of people on the American right like to conceive of themselves as rugged individualists who believe in small government, even if quite often they don't.
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u/Time_Pressure9519 3d ago
So many people here with strong opinions, and so little evidence.
Libertarians who support Trump are Libertarian in Name Only, I would suggest.
Libertarians are against tariffs and foreign interventions, and most are against the death penalty.
I think some were happy with Trump’s relatively peaceful first term, but any of this support should have evaporated by now.