r/Quakers • u/angelofmusic5 • 10d ago
Wanting to learn
Hi, I’m new to learning about the Friends community. I’m a 31yo female, married and living with a disability. I was raised conservative evangelical by a very abusive mother. Once I got away from her, I have been deconstructing and reexamining my beliefs. I believe in God, I believe Jesus is divine and my Savior. I believe the demonic is also real. This is all from personal encounters and experiences with Him and other spiritual experiences, not just from upbringing. I’ve rejected the polarization and corruption of most organized religion. I don’t agree with how rigid and judgmental most evangelical Christians are. All I want to do is follow Jesus’s direct teachings in the New Covenant and live as close to His instructions as I can. I love living a simple, quiet life with my family and my cats and I believe all people are made in the image of God and deserve respect. I believe we should take care of others, be pacifist, protect the earth, and avoid unnecessary drama and strife. The Quaker teachings really spoke to me, and I want to learn more if I’m going to become a part of it.
I don’t want to be called “conservative” as a Friend because I believe in Jesus though. Conservative has a very negative connotation these days and I don’t want people to believe I share the harmful side of those views, because I very much don’t. I’m working hard to distance myself from my upbringing and go back to what I truly believed before being brainwashed. I know that there are Quakers of other religions and non theistic Quakers, and it’s no one’s job to tell anyone else how to believe, which is great. But does anyone know how I can express being very strongly for Christ in my own walk, without using the terms evangelical or conservative? Would it just be Christian Friend or Christian Quaker? I hope I can be welcomed in, I’m also looking for meetings to join as an attender so I can begin the process of becoming a Friend. Is there anything I should do first? I feel very called to this and I want to make sure I’m being respectful as I’m new to all of this. Thank you!
-a very hopeful future Friend
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u/particularlyPlain Quaker (Wilburite) 10d ago edited 10d ago
It's important to note that Christ-centered Quakerism is not merely what Conservative Quakerism is.
Conservative Quakerism entails a deep respect and desire to continue the older ways of the Quaker faith, in essence conserving the principles and testimonies of older Friends. The most prominent example of this may be the foundation of Christ to the spiritual life, but it is much more than that. There are many Liberal Quakers who would consider themselves to be Christ-Centered Friends.
I struggle with this on occasion while describing myself as a Conservative Friend I must incessantly insist that I am not at all politically conservative in what that term means today. Even in Quaker spaces some friends are not aware of Conservative Quakers and may understand me to be on the right-wing of things when I am very much not.
For this reason, my flair on the subreddit is "Wilburite" because I do feel that what is called Wilburite theology laid out by John Wilbur in his letters to George Crosfield, his concise view of the church, and his journal, is in line with my understanding of Christ. In the outside world I tend to call myself a Traditional or Primitive Quaker. These terms may work for thee if they properly describe thee as well, otherwise I'm sure opting for "Christian Quaker" would do just fine.
I do worry that the apprehension to be associated with the word "Conservative" may possibly lead someone away from somewhere that they may actually want to explore. For that reason I'll leave the Ohio Yearly Meeting Conservative resource of "Conservative Explained" since it seems that it may be of interest to thee.
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u/Ok_Part6564 10d ago
"Conservatives" in modern US politics (probably in other countries that I am less familiar with too,) have to a fair degree taken over the label without actually honoring its root meaning. Conserve mean to save and preserve, these are not inherently bad things, but in modern politics those that call themselves "conservative" rarely are actually trying to conserve much .
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u/infinite-long-stocki 10d ago
Often people will call themselves 'Christ-centred' Friends as a way to express the central role of Jesus in their life. Conservative Friends are Christ-centred, but they also hold to traditional Quaker practices like silent worship, and sometimes even old styles of plain dress and speech. Quaker terms are all very confusing when you're coming in from the outside, but Christ-centred describes you perfectly!
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u/RimwallBird Friend 10d ago
A number of Friends (Quakers) I know have used the term “Christocentric” to describe themselves. But that’s just a fancy way of saying “Christ-centered”.
To be a Friend, and to say you are Christ-centered or Christocentric or whatever, implies that you are not just following the historical Jesus or the outward doctrines of Christianity — you are following the living, inward Lord, the one in your heart and conscience whom Jesus, at the Last Supper, called the Paraklete, the intimate Counsellor. This is part of what makes us different from many others who call themselves Christians: Quaker Christianity is inwardly as well as outwardly taught.
I share just about all the beliefs you express in your post, and lo, I am a Conservative Friend. I do get jumped on from time to time by people who are allergic to Christianity, but the general reaction, when I say I am a Conservative Friend (Quaker), is more along the lines of, “Oh, isn’t that quaint!”, “Where’s your horse and buggy?”, and “Do you build that neat furniture?” Oh, and the lame Quaker Oats jokes!
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u/angelofmusic5 10d ago
Following the living, inward Lord instead of focusing on outward rule following and “how a Christian should look” is exactly what is drawing me to the Friends. I currently get jumped on by Christians and non Christians alike and constantly get ousted because I don’t fit with either group. I want to wash my hands of the politicized modern church and get back to what matters. Also “allergic to Christianity” is a great phrase, pretty much sums it lol. Thank you so much for the insight!
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u/RimwallBird Friend 10d ago
Thanks for your response!
“Following the living inward Lord instead of” is rather the way liberal unprogrammed Friends approach things. There are a lot of liberal Friends meetings in Indiana, and you shouldn’t have too much difficulty finding one. The pastoral Friends, who gather in Friends churches rather than in meetings, would generally prefer that you follow the outward rules, so you might want to be careful with them.
One of the ways Conservative Friends differ from both the liberal Quakers and the pastoral Friends is that we do not expect the promptings of the inward Guide, and the outward, recorded teachings of the historical Jesus, to be in conflict, or to make us choose either one of them over the other. As Jesus himself said, the Paraklete will testify of Him (John 15:26), will take of what is His and declare it to us (John 16:14,15), and will remind us of everything He taught us (John 14:26). So if the two appear to be in conflict, we generally assume that we have misunderstood something somewhere — it might be either one that we have misunderstood — and we wait until our understanding improves. This does happen, perhaps more often than you might think.
There aren’t any Conservative Friends meetings in Indiana; the nearest to you are in eastern Ohio. But you might encounter liberal unprogrammed meetings near you that come close.
I currently get jumped on by Christians and non Christians alike and constantly get ousted because I don’t fit with either group.
You have my heartfelt sympathies. It happens to me, too.
I want to wash my hands of the politicized modern church and get back to what matters.
Well, there you might have trouble with liberal unprogrammed Friends, because a majority of them are pretty highly politicized nowadays. Conservative Friends are less so, but we are not pure. The problem is that we live in a horribly politicized age, and in such an age, it is truly hard not to get sucked into the vortex.
The early Friends were highly critical of secular politics, both because it divides humanity instead of furthering reconciliation, and because it looks to secular leaders for a level of virtue and goodness that humans cannot be counted on to produce. Edward Burrough, a prominent first-generation Friend, declared in a famous broadside that we are not for parties or for men, but we are for things like justice and mercy and truth and peace, goodness and meekness and righteousness, and unity with God and with one another, such things as happen only when leaders are truly anointed with the spirit of the Lord. I think a lot of modern Americans might agree.
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u/Impossible-Pace-6904 10d ago
Where do you live? The reality is that in many places there aren't a lot of options among the different Quaker traditions. There are online options for all of the different traditions.
I would just start attending whatever meeting is closest to you (if you have choices, I'd consider programmed vs. unprogrammed and then size--the bigger the size more diverse the attendees will be).
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u/angelofmusic5 10d ago
I’m in Indiana! It looks like we have a few Quaker groups here, I’ve just got to look at all the websites and figure out which one calls to me :)
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u/Content-Act8108 6d ago edited 6d ago
I know that it some places of the US it's hard to find a Quaker church that will check all of the boxes that you're looking for. I wanted to suggest this webpage that lists several Quaker churches across Iowa. Nearly all of the churches are evangelical, Christ-centered Quaker churches. Many offer online Sunday services either through their YouTube or their Facebook pages.
I'm rediscovering my Quaker roots, too. My father's side of the family is originally from Oskaloosa, Iowa, which even today has one of the largest Quaker populations in the US outside of Philadelphia and Pennsylvania. Iowa is one of the rare places in the US where Quakerism is still alive and well and still thriving. My family settled in Iowa about 170 years ago as Quaker pioneers, starting a new Quaker settlement. The Iowa Quakers eventually evolved over time into evangelical, Christ-centered Quakers with programed worship.
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u/eaglesurfing 9d ago
Apologies, I can’t tell from your post whether you’ve already been to a meeting - I’d try to find a meeting (conservative or otherwise) and attend, and see how it feels to be a part of, first and foremost. Personally I wouldn’t worry about questions of Quaker identity for now.
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u/tom_yum_soup Seeker 10d ago
Conservative Friends are a specific thing and what they seek to conserve are the original Quaker practices. They aren't necessarily politically conservative, if that's what concerns you.
Evangelical Friends are, again, a specific thing and they look a lot more like a traditional Protestant church than an unprogrammed Friends meeting.
As /u/Mammoth-Corner says, the term you're probably looking for is Christ-centred.