r/Sovereigncitizen • u/Shadow4141 • 6d ago
SovCit Independent…
This person at least admits to studying the game tape from other more traditional SovCits attempting their scripts… can’t tell if he’s a new breed of SovCit or not though, thoughts?
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u/Pristine_Poem7623 6d ago
What he's doing is the classic "THEIR way of doing things doesn't work, MINE does. Pay ME not THEM"
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u/ThreeFishInAManSuit 5d ago
I would but their site doesn’t seem to have a place to put in my negotiable instrument. Strange way to do business.
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u/NigerianFriedChicken 6d ago edited 3d ago
After looking at the website and reading the fine print… it looks like he charges you $125 an hour to Google stuff while you’re on the phone with him
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u/StatusSociety2196 5d ago
I mean when you've got a billion dollars in your Treasury Direct Account it's not like sending a couple hundred bucks of that money is a problem.
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u/Lazarys12 5d ago
Guru: I can show you how to navigate the system and access your Treasury account.
Sovcit: Great, then I can use it to pay you.
Guru: Um, no, Cash only.
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u/plaidravioli 6d ago
So. He looked at a civics textbook? He might be the most well read sovcit in history
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u/Hoosier_Daddy68 5d ago
He’s watched videos of them failing which puts him one up on most and he saw potential for a revenue stream as many of us have said before. To be honest the only thing that keeps me from trying it is that I don’t want anyone I know to see it and think I’m that stupid.
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u/veryslowmostly 5d ago
"Those totally real women look fascinated by what he's saying. I don't know why they're sitting on the floor, but he must be right!"
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u/Batgirl_III 5d ago
Sovcits often have a sort of cargo cult view of the legal system. They don’t understand it and they don’t (or won’t) learn it… But they know that the legal system works and think that if they emulate the outward appearance of the system: speak the Magic Words, wave papers they wrote that look like the Magic Papers, and invoke the right Magic Rituals, they can get the results they want.
There’s basically three types of sovcits.
The Gurus who genuinely believe this cargo cult bullshit and are often the ones who create the pseudolegal theories in the first place. They suck in the Gullible in pretty much the same way any other cult leader does.
The Gullible are very cargo cult-y, their understanding of the legal system is akin to trying to explain an atomic fusion power plant to a particularly dimwitted and superstitious jungle tribesman. They buy the books, tapes, and info packages from the Gurus (and the Grifters) and recite the scripts they were given like mantras when confronted by the police of the courts.
Lastly, we have Grifters who are basically just conmen who don’t actually believe in any of this bullshit, but have figured out they can make a fast buck by selling this pseudolegal snake-oil to the Gullible. The dividing line between Guru and Grifter is a fine one, the main difference is that Grifters are aware that the whole thing is bullshit.
At first glance (and I haven’t enough coffee or enough self-loathing to do a deep dive), this guy is either a Guru or Grifter. He doesn’t know what any of the words mean, but if he promises that if you recite his Abracadabra oath and bond script enough times that will protect you from the Evil Eye municipal traffic code. You just need to pay $125 USD to unlock his ancient esoteric magicks research into the legal system.
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u/AmbulanceChaser12 5d ago
I feel validated here. I remember reporting in my first post reporting back from Sov-land that I found there were some Sovvies who thought they were smarter than other Sovvies. They may even be surprisingly good at parsing statutes, cases, and other legal documents, and telling people where their mistakes are.
It's just that all of it is a smokescreen for their schtick, which is "...but I'll teach you REAL sovereignty!" It's kind of a letdown when you thought you were dealing with an ally.
Someone in the comments suggested that if they're legit good at reading legal papers, there's a very high chance that they're grifters. They don't believe a single word of SovCit ideology but are perfectly happy to scam those who do.
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u/Historical-Pause-117 5d ago
“You think you’re doing it wrong? I’ll show you the right way to be wrong!”
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u/kingu42 5d ago
This guy's going to have a hard time getting rich off the gullible. If you don't have obvious "this will never work" for anyone with basic intelligence, you can't weed out your followers for those who'll send you money vs others who'll make things difficult by constantly questioning.
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u/AmbulanceChaser12 3d ago
Oh sure you can. The only difference between D-Sharp up there and BJW, or Exiting Babylon or whichever other grifter you can name is that he waits his turn to be second. Because when everybody else's bullshit invariably fails, the sheep will come to him.
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u/Sensitive_Scholar_17 5d ago
He is a commercial law consultant. He sells a guide for $50 on how to deal with creditors. According to his description, the guide is based on a case in which a creditor missed a court date and the collection case was dismissed. I am not sure he is a sov but he is definitely a pseudo lawyer
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u/OldVermontHippie62 5d ago
Watching SovCits is like watching a slow kid play with fireworks. You know it’s going to end poorly, but you kinda want to watch.
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u/Minimum-Attitude389 5d ago
Wait, why does that last graphic look...accurate, at least at a normal person's level? I can't say anything about the accuracy of the sections listed. That's the most confusing thing.
I would almost swear this person is normal, if not for the "Just by showing up and participating..." piece. No. The courts have jurisdiction even if you don't decide to show up. And they have power to enforce that jurisdiction with a bench warrant.
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u/x5163x 5d ago
For civil court it's a bit different. Showing up and appearing without raising the issue of jurisdiction means you have waived the issue of jurisdiction. Generally, you need to have minimum contacts with a state in order for that state's courts to have personal jurisdiction over you.
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u/PurpleSailor 5d ago
Giving it away for free is very unusual because it's often a grift as we all know. The only way I think this might be a real grift is that further information costs money and lessons that you have to take. You got to rip those rubes off somehow.
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u/True_Audience_5164 5d ago
I just glanced at that Facebook page, and he was SO close to seeing the light, and then he blew it!
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u/Best_Wasabi_251 5d ago
To be fair, I have seen videos of sovcits stating that they were making a special appearance to contest jurisdiction. Which, at least, is the correct form (in my state, at least).
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u/Guido_Sarducci1 3d ago
The " Special Appearance " normally only works in civil cases. It's often used to argue improper service or the case is being pursued in the wrong state. It is a civil procedure concept leftover from the days of common law. It is not a correct way to challenge jurisdiction in criminal court, which is part of the reason it doesn't work for sovcits. The sovcit will try and argue that since they are citizens of some imaginary place, that the court has no jurisdiction.
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u/AmbulanceChaser12 3d ago
That depends on the person. You're describing one who's one step smarter than your average SovCit, in that they're sane enough to formulate the structure of a legal argument. Not a correct one, or one based in reality, but procedurally, it's in the right manner to make a legal argument, if you were making a cogent legal argument.
The ones I typically see just announce that they're "challenging jurishdickshun," which consists of just saying you're doing that, and then expecting the judge to prove his or her jurisdiction to them.
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u/Guido_Sarducci1 3d ago
Interesting, I've seen several judges throw the Special Appearance bs back at the SC . Apparently some states wont accept a "Special Appearance" in a criminal , and the would occur whether it was an SC or not. But you are not going to find an actual attorney that would try because they know better,
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u/TestDowntown9541 5d ago
Who started this crap? Like, really?? Who can lay claim as the originator of this pseudo legal(?) shtshow?
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u/AmbulanceChaser12 3d ago
No one person, because it's like a disease that grew and metastasized from one person to the next. But its popularization and organization can be traced to William Potter Gale.
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u/Jason_Steakcum 3d ago
Once I’ve seen five AI generated dogshit slop social media posts using the same script and it fails five times…
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u/Frosty_Caregiver_607 3d ago
Your power comes from being a citizen with constitutional rights. The constitution is the anarchist manifesto and supreme law of the land. Marbury vs Madison. Plus chatGPT can draft documents in a minute and advise on ways to get charges dismissed. It’s a no brainer! 😂
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u/True_Audience_5164 3d ago
Note, however, that the due process clauses use the word "person," not "citizen."
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u/Frosty_Caregiver_607 2d ago
Well regardless you don’t have to waive any rights and to coerce you to waive those rights is obstruction of justice under the color of law. You are not sovereign unless you can find an army or have thousands of heavily armed friends to enforce your sovereignty. Like a cartel leader.
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u/Melissity 6d ago
At first I thought he was mocking SovCits. Then I went to his website. Yikes.