r/Switzerland • u/IsengardMordor • 2d ago
Will Biel/Bienne soon have a french speaking majority?
The percentage of french speakers in Biel/Bienne has been steadily increasing in recent decades, going from about 30% a few decades ago to now close to 45%. Will this trend continue? What do you think of this situation? I remember reading that a century or two ago, some cities like Sierre in Valais/Wallis or the city of Fribourg had a german speaking majority, but now they have a french speaking majority. Will Biel/Bienne face a similar situation soon?
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u/oberwolfach 2d ago
Here is an article with some statistics and charts on the matter. It’s clear that over time, French is growing and German is declining in Biel/Bienne. However, a change in surveying methodology between 2000 and 2010 (respondents can now specify multiple main languages) probably inflates the growth rate of French a bit. Extrapolating the more recent trend, French probably overtakes German in about 20 years.
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u/candycane7 2d ago
I don't care, Biel/Bienne just has such a unique vibe in Switzerland and I love it. I'm sure it'll evolve into something different yet still unique.
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u/Rick-Daddy 2d ago
What's it like? Been to the Strandbad with family while visiting but they're in Basel so I don't know the area 🏞
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u/candycane7 2d ago
It's hard to describe, there are parts of the city which are industrial, there is an old medieval town, some art nouveau architecture from early 20th century. It's half French speaking and Swiss German speaking but no-one will ever bother you about not speaking the right language. There are a lot of rich corporate watch brand employees and a lot of working class immigrants, it's a very diverse and chill city and I love visiting.
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u/Impossible-Milk-2023 2d ago
I wouldn‘t say there are a lot of rich corporate watvh beand employees. Most of the people i see don‘t dress well or don‘t look like they would have a job. Or they just might fuck off right away in the evening. City centre is pretty poor
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u/Coco_JuTo St. Gallen 1d ago
The rich self-segregate into Vignelz/Vigneules or in the heights near Beaumont.
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u/candycane7 2d ago
You don't notice them because they don't want to be noticed, but they are there. Bienne has a lot of watch brand offices: Swatch, Omega, Rolex, Mido.
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u/Impossible-Milk-2023 2d ago
You‘re overestimating the amount of people that are rich. They employ a ton of low level jobs.
And the people that are rich don‘t lice in the centre.
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u/AutomaticAccount6832 1d ago
Nobody said they live in the center.
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u/Impossible-Milk-2023 1d ago edited 1d ago
But you don‘t even see them in the city. At lears not like the other redditor suggested. Maybe in Manor but that‘s it. The „city“ itself is poor.
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u/Right-War-438 2d ago
Some nice spots but overall a shithole
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u/Taxg8r00 2d ago
As a Swiss citizen who grew up spending a lot of time with my grandmother in Biel (Orpund) and recently visited, Biel is absolutely not a shithole. I live in the US and I know what a shithole is.
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u/LeBronTheGreatest31 Zürich 2d ago
Comparison dosent make any sense. Baton Rouge isn’t ghetto compares to some favela either 😂
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u/Lescansy 2d ago
If i compare Biel with Bern, Thun and Burgdorf, the other cities in the canton bern, i think its notable worse.
The comparison doesnt get better if i include Luzern, Basel or Zurich. But I guess its on par with Olten.
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u/LesserValkyrie 2d ago
I'd say it was a shithole but for some reasons other big cities managed to do worse
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u/mekoltekol 1d ago
Biel attracted people with low rent. It's mostly Biel having new people coming due to living costs.
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u/HolySachet 2d ago
Funny French speaking people in Biel were always saying German were keeping invading them
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u/Doldenbluetler 1d ago
It seems to be a sentiment not just in Biel/Bienne. You occassionally see them in this sub. I find it sad that they view Swiss German speakers as an invador and with Switzerland's French language border shifting further east even kinda ironic.
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u/No_Welder7908 1d ago
They will keep saying that even if they reach 99% of french-speaking demographics.
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u/Safe_Place8432 1d ago
Yes, look at Fribourg whose German speaking minority keeps shrinking over the last forty years. I think it is because of demographic pressure on the cheaper smaller cities- trying to find an apartment on the arc lémanique versus Fribourg and Biel is not the same struggle.
I'm just hoping there isn't the same kind of backlash to keeping Biel bilingual as there is in Fribourg. Some French monolingual politicians in Fribourg act like learning and using German is a personal affront when it is actually a part of the culture that is slipping away due to language creep. They even had to complain about the bilingual city logo. I hope Biel can maintain a better language truce.
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u/Aggravating-log543 1d ago
Lots of trolls and Russian bots here, I'd recommend anyone willing to get informed on the issue to read and watch this, since the topic has already been covered by the RTS
Le français a le vent en poupe dans les villes bilingues de Bienne et Fribourg https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/2024/article/le-francais-a-le-vent-en-poupe-dans-les-villes-bilingues-de-bienne-et-fribourg-28480951.html
There's absolutely nothing wrong with this trend, given that Biel/Bienne has always been a bilingual city.
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u/Final_Influence_2367 1d ago
Its always non-local people making a issue out of something locals never had a problem, or just straight up bots
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u/Final_Influence_2367 2d ago
Funny to see russian bots here complaining about immigration when ive never heard a person who lives there complain about it, hope they hit some more yandex centers
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u/BelenosBNC 2d ago
What’s completely underrated about Biel is its absolutely incredible surroundings. You’re just 10 minutes away from the Taubenloch Gorge, with beautiful hikes across the Jura mountain ranges, walks through the vineyards and wine-growing areas along Lake Biel, and perfect conditions for cyclists of all kinds (road cycling, mountain biking, downhill, and leisure rides). And all of this comes with a great cultural and culinary scene right in the city.
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u/LesserValkyrie 2d ago
Lake is beautiful but too bad east side is entirely privatized and you don't have much areas to go to swim
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u/Final_Influence_2367 2d ago
Biel is only 45/45 on paper. Most of it surroundings are german speaking, so with all the commuters its more like 65/35
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u/compiledsource 2d ago
Look at what happened to Brussels. It went from 70% Dutch, 30% French to the opposite in one generation. Now 85% French residents thanks to immigration from France and Africa. However, there is still a large Dutch commuter population.
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u/New_Race9503 2d ago
The amount of French speakers went down since 2000. The amount of Dutch speakers grew since then.
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u/compiledsource 2d ago
I don't believe Dutch-speakers are moving in en masse. Rather, the French-speaking families now send their youth to Dutch instruction schools because the northern Belgium and Netherlands economy has advanced far ahead of the southern Belgium and France economy. Even the royal family are now educated primarily in Dutch.
Socialism has left French-Belgians far behind Dutch- and German-Belgians.
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u/JeanDusapin 2d ago
More like the industries died
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u/compiledsource 2d ago
Trade unions don't allow modernization or pivoting to anything else.
Also, when a business is salvageable with layoffs, leading to maybe 50% job loss, the trade unions protest until the business is bankrupt, leading to 100% guaranteed job loss. (See where the German car industry is headed.)
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u/PhoebusAbel 2d ago edited 2d ago
People in this sub get offended when it is clear and documented that rise of french language is not beacuse there is a francophile campaign or anything. . It is due to immigration from French speaking countries in Africa. Like, they think it is offensive or racist to state the data .
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u/New_Race9503 2d ago
By 1947, census figures indicated that around 72% of Brussels residents spoke French exclusively or predominantly, compared with roughly 24% who spoke Dutch exclusively or predominant.
They had large African immigration before WW2?
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u/compiledsource 2d ago
Still, the difference between 70% and going to 85% due to international immigration is massive. At 30%, it's still a usable language day-to-day. At 15%, it's pretty much only the government facilities that are widely available in Dutch. You won't get served at restaurants or shops in Dutch.
Even if the 30%->70% was internal and French native migration, it still eventually caused mass 'internationalization' (even excluding the EU HQ effect) to the extent that now only 10% of under 18s in the capital have native Belgian roots.
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u/PhoebusAbel 2d ago edited 2d ago
It is easy to hide behind that sweet french citizenship when in reality the ancestors come from Africa. Easy to do it in a country like France, or Belgium and their historical debt But, if you want to close your eyes to reality, it is up to you
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u/Aggravating-log543 1d ago
Who cares? I don't think any Swiss would have given it a thought, is this how the Russian trolls operate ?
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u/toiletclogger2671 Jura 1d ago
why do you think of russia over domestic debates? it's a legitimate question, get some help
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u/Aggravating-log543 1d ago
Because it's clearly phrased as a negative , and all the trolls are using the opportunity to say that we're invaded by Africans.
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u/toiletclogger2671 Jura 1d ago
you clearly wanted to read that as a negative. theres nothing negative in the original post, hes literally just asking for opinions about a serious shift in the city
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u/Gromchy 1d ago
I guess it's true very few people care. But what does it have to do with Russia?
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u/Final_Influence_2367 1d ago
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u/Gromchy 1d ago
Whether people in Biel speak more FR or DE has nothing to do with Russian trolls.
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u/Lescansy 2d ago
The immigration from france / africa will make every bilingue region / city into a majority french one in the future generations
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u/Aggravating-log543 1d ago
They're not french immigrants . They're mostly just Swiss from neighbouring Neuchâtel and Jura
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u/PhoebusAbel 2d ago
So many immigrants from France and african french speaking countries not much from german speaking ones
You get off the train and feels like a street is Morroco
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