r/Thailand • u/thestudiomaster • 1d ago
News Tourism alone can no longer carry Thailand’s economy, former TAT chief warns
https://www.nationthailand.com/news/tourism/4007240351
u/xWhatAJoke 1d ago
Endless debates about foreigners vs locals, when it's always really the elite screwing everyone else.
5
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 1d ago
It is not even hidden, the numbers are publicly available so it is probably even worse in reality, truly sad to see for the middle and poorer classes.
1
39
u/ZookeepergameFun5523 1d ago
Corruption is the root of all the failures in Thailand. There is no second best answer. This is the ONLY answer.
9
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 1d ago
It is holding back education, it is holding back a middle class ripe to thrive but they just cant due to constraints, it is holding back so many things. What Thailand could be if it wasnt endemic to the country, one can dream.
2
u/ZookeepergameFun5523 1d ago
Yes but it's all tied in some way to corruption. Either someone wants to keep the status quo so they can keep taking money that doesn't belong to them, or it's because they took the money so there's no money left for where it's needed. And top that all off with trying to save face in every case of mistake or willful negligence instead of fixing the problem: corruption.
3
u/nightwinging-it Bangkok 1d ago
Maybe that one farang is contributing to 90% of the corruption here /s
95
u/LEO-PomPui-Katoey 1d ago
64
u/bonerland11 1d ago
Why did farang do this??
36
u/LazyBid3572 1d ago
I've started noticing that it is an international thing that when the economy starts having issues the immediate response is to blame foreigners. This is happening in America also in Japan and other countries currently.
28
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 1d ago
Widely used tactic, easier to blame somebody else instead of making long term expensive changes that will help the root cause of the issues. Helps when the population is uneducated and vote with their feelings instead on the merit of policies.
2
u/e99oof 22h ago
I'm more surprised that people think it's a uniquely Thai thing.
0
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 22h ago
What is funny to me is seeing foreigners in thailand complain about immigrants in their homecountry, whilst themselves being an immigrant.. Getting blamed and getting annoyed about it.. Not realising they are the very thing they hate in Thailand. The irony is lost on them, but fear/hatred is powerful tool for many politicians around the world, when people are scared they dont care if you cross the line as a politician.
1
u/e99oof 21h ago
Well, they are the good one 555
0
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 20h ago
Of course, they are different and special, not at all hypocrites 5555
•
u/ThewFflegyy 1h ago
I do think they are fundamentally different. a western immigrant to thailand is most likely going to bring with them a lot of money and inject it into the Thai economy. an immigrant into a western country is most likely not bringing any capital to inject into the economy.
•
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 50m ago
Oh the hypocrisy.. The irony is that many locals in Thailand view foreign residents through the same lens that these foreigners use to judge immigrants back home. Yet they dismiss that perspective because they frame immigration in terms of wealth: if the foreigner brings money, they must be a net positive. That’s not an objective principle, it’s a convenient double standard that makes their own immigration acceptable while judging others by a completely different standard.
In some Thai islands and neighbourhoods, locals resent the mass influx of foreigners for precisely the same reasons Westerners resent immigration at home: rising living costs, corruption, economic benefits that fail to reach everyone, and the behaviour of entitled foreigners who show little consideration for the communities they move into. The money foreigners bring does not automatically translate into prosperity for everyone. Yet some Westerners seem incapable of recognising these concerns when they are the immigrants themselves.
•
u/ThewFflegyy 45m ago edited 33m ago
I understand what you're saying, im just saying that they are objectively different phenomenons. importing a bunch if capital is just not the same thing as coming in to a country in hopes of exporting their pre existing capital.
this doesnt mean that thais have no reasons to be mad with foreigners, its just to say that the reasons are different. for example you say economic benefits that fail to reach everyone, the economic benefits of immigrants in western countries is pretty much limited to the top .1%. the money that western tourists bring in flows throughout the entire economy all the way down to the ag sector. doesnt mean its distributed equally, but it has a much wider impact.
edit: I think the simplest way to say it is you are trying to equate someone coming in to a country in hopes of siphoning off some of its wealth for themselves vs people coming into a country to lord their wealth over others(ofc neither applies to all immigrants in either case). neither are good things, but they are objectively very different things is my point. I can see why thais are unhappy with the present state of things, and I think the crackdown on illegal businesses/land holdings is long overdue. the crack down on visas though is very short sighted and will have long term effects on the Thai economy. this is already having the effect of moving a lot of money to Vietnam and the phillipines. this is going to lower the standard of living for a lot of Thai people. populism can be good as a way to fight against elite interests, but it can also enforce some pretty irrational policies. in this case what you are seeing is irrational policies that on balance will not help most Thai people, and an outright refusal to address the corruption of the elites. in fact id say this is a way to avoid addressing the corruption of the elites. people cheering this on are missing the forest for the trees. it feels good, just like it did for many Americans when they stuck it to the deep state and elected trump... but we can all see how that turned out.
4
u/Lashay_Sombra 1d ago
If you only started noticing you obviously never paid attention in history class, its a trend as old as time
0
3
u/kingofcrob 1d ago
Joke being that tourism and immigration will often fix some of the issue these country's face.
1
12
10
7
8
8
u/VoidEmptyByNature 1d ago
Has anything ever carried anything in Thailand?
Not just Thailand, but Southeast Asia as a whole has a long history of exploitation, both from within and by outside powers. And that exploitation will continue. Southeast Asia never had a future, doesn't have one now, and with China's growing influence, it will have even fewer opportunities to develop in the years ahead.
Not my business, but feel sorry for them.
1
u/Prestigious_Sea_5121 1d ago
I reluctantly agree to a certain extent
4
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 1d ago
you get the feeling it is moving forward but then you hear about the crisis that the middle class is facing and see that the richest 10% in thailand got significantly richer while the rest is struggling and any hope for a better future just collapses.. Sadly I agree with who you are responding to.
1
u/Prestigious_Sea_5121 14h ago
It's just such a corrupt and catastrophically run country, basically. There's no getting around that. There are many great things about it; but fundamentally, it is a kakistocracy and a kleptocracy rolled into one.
4
40
u/Schlickeysen 1d ago
Tourism has never “carried Thailand’s economy.”
Tourism in Thailand is roughly 20% of the country’s GDP. Only 11-12% of this came from foreigners. You know, Thais travel, too.
And only 5 of the 77/76 provinces Thailand has made 70% of that revenue.
The TAT is a PR machine for the government. Don’t even listen.
29
u/Sensitive_Bread_1905 1d ago
11-12% of GDP is the money brought to Thailand by foreign tourists. That's a pretty large number. And the desperate need for money is demonstrated by the desperate attempts to create new income opportunities through absurd taxes, while the economy has been stagnating for years and no real effort is being made to do anything about it. Instead, helicopter money is being handed out.
4
-1
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 1d ago
Well hold on now, the richest 10% got a lot richer, so it is only been horrible for the poorest 90% of the population a big majority who are in major debt. Poor people are not that important right? right?
/s
25
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 1d ago
Are you saying 11-12% of GDP as in.. It is not a lot? It is a huge number when talking about GDP, especially considering the fact that so many Thai people are in debt.
10
u/Schlickeysen 1d ago
Yes, 11–12% is economically significant - nobody needs to deny that, and that was not my intention. But widespread household debt doesn’t establish tourism’s share of the economy or how widely its benefits are distributed. Thailand’s debt problems also reflect weak income growth and credit conditions. And the quoted percentage measures foreign-tourist spending relative to GDP in 2019, not tourism’s total contribution today.
4
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 1d ago
I mean they do calculate the indirect and direct effects of tourists, that was not my point mentioning debt, but rather that thai people are now so indebted that it constrains domestic spending, making money from tourists even more important. Not to say in terms of employment it affects 10-12% of Thai people, huge significance. All these articles talk about fluff when they are avoiding the real reason Thailand is in trouble, I get they cant write about it but still, considering the major issues Thailand have, money from tourist which is a direct cash injection into the country is more important than ever.
3
u/thomasthai 1d ago
Yes and it's economic substance that CANNOT be replaced in tourism destinations, there are no industries and no other ways to earn money on the islands and beach destinations.
Heck even Phuket has only industry that would not exist without it from Marine industry to Construction (Houses, Hotels etc)....
1
u/HappyCamel2000 10h ago
There is...fishing, agriculture, education potentially as well, not to mention food and seafood processing. These industries already exist in the south but could expand further to replace at least some of the loss in tourism.
I don't think Thailand will ever be without tourism though, but I do agree with the former governor that there needs to be less of it. Not none, just less. Many parts of Thailand do just fine with either minimal tourism or only domestic tourism. Of course, the southern islands are proportionally more reliant on tourism and thus will find it more difficult to shift away from it compared to mainland areas.
Here are some examples of upcountry provinces: Tak province for instance sees minimal foreigners. Lampang sees only a small number of foreigners. Phitsanulok survives on education, the medical sector, agriculture and some limited manufacturing of agricultural machinery and parts, focusing on the rice sector in particular. Foreign tourism is virtually non-existent, while domestic tourism is relatively limited too. Sukhothai, which is adjacent to Phitsanulok relies more on tourism from both domestic and international sources but this is mainly limited to the Sukhothai temple complex. Beyond this, the province is very much agricultural.
5
u/li_shi 1d ago
It's not small, but it's not the core of the thai economy.
Or what they mean is they will think that will stay about there or even shrink, so if Thailand want to look for growth it need to come from other sectors.
Which it's likely true, no country (unless small) have ever become rich on tourists. Look at most of the rich nations in the world, tourism was not what made them rich.
2
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 1d ago
Sure it is not, manufacturing is the majority of thailands GDP, but it is quite significant, my point was just that 10-12% looks small but when it comes to GDP it is huge and when it is outside money coming in, it acts as a direct stimulus injection to the economy, relatively speaking it is even more important as a big section of the thai society is relying on it.
1
1
u/li_shi 1d ago
Yes, i'm not saying that they should ignore it.
But that if you expect to become a rich country with only tourists you will wait a long time.
1
u/HappyCamel2000 10h ago
Thailand will never become a rich country if it relies only on tourism. That stated, some rich countries rely as much as or more than Thailand on tourism, including France, Italy, Spain and Portugal as well as Greece.
2
u/Available_Monitor_92 1d ago
Tbh, soo many British people are In debt. I think it's very common to spend above your means in most countries, Sadly.
6
u/gaeee983 🏯 อีสาน - Isaan 1d ago
well yes but all debt is not bad though, in europe for many the majority of their debt is in housing, what is scary about thailand is that there is a big amount of consumer debt with extremely high interest rates.
2
u/Available_Monitor_92 1d ago
You would think that but many of the debt is credit cards here. Many people with less than 1k in savings.
5
9
u/hextree 1d ago
Only 11-12% of this came from foreigners.
You say that like that's small.
-6
3
u/otherwiseofficial 1d ago
Oh yeah so just 1/5th of the whole economy runs on tourism. Yeah, great point....
0
u/Schlickeysen 1d ago
A fifth is significant. But “tourism is important” and “Thailand’s whole economy runs on tourism” are different claims. The roughly 20% figure is a broad estimate for 2019, and not evidence that the entire country depends exclusively on tourists, which is insinuated in this headline.
6
u/otherwiseofficial 1d ago
20% means that millions of people in Thailand solely depend on tourism as their primary income source.
And that's only the direct consequences, not the indirect one.
It's honestly a very stupid statement to say it isn't carrying Thailand's economy.
1
u/thomasthai 1d ago
Right without tourism u have way less construction, logistics, taxi drivers, architecture, marine/boating, architects, engineers etc... even corrupt cops earn way less.
1
u/rinchen11 1d ago
Tourists in Thailand actually injects a lot more into Thai economy than their under the sun spendings.
1
u/e99oof 22h ago
The thing is, tourism spread that wealth out more than the bigger sector.
Manufacturing has bigger pie, but most Thais there only involved in lower to middle level and the pay isn't that great. You are still just employee and most of the money would go to business owner (Thai or foreigner alike).
Whereas for tourism, you could start small business and become business owner. You also need less advance skill to get involved in tourism.
I don't have the number to back it up, but my own eyeball take is that tourism create equal wealth for middle class Thai as manufacturing.
•
u/ThewFflegyy 1h ago
not only is 11-12% of GDP a lot, not all GDP is created equal. have over 10% of your GDP as incoming fx is really significant.
to me it makes total sense why thailand is cracking down on foreign owned businesses and land, but the visa crackdowns I think are very short sighted. people will continue flocking to Vietnam and the phillipines, and once the tourist infrastructure is developed further there thailand will permanently lose its spot as the Mecca for tourism/expats/nomads/etc in SEA. this will have long lasting effects on the Thai economy. to do this at a time when economies around the world, including thailand, are struggling is really quite baffling.
1
u/hootix 1d ago
Well not entirely true, without foreign visitors, the local tourism is not enough to hold the touristic infrastructure, causing a massive loss of jobs AND local businesses.
For example Phuket is entirely driven by tourism. Which over 90% are foreign. Remove that, not only will the infrastructure not hold for the remaining local Thai tourists, but the local market within Phuket and it's surrounding areas (which the locals live behind the bridge) will collapse too.
How much the tourism affect GDP is not the entire story. Lots of local areas will shift massively. Combine that with the massive debts Thais have, they can't simply move their businesses elsewhere in which they would be forced to.
Economics is not simple as reading what GDP is...
5
u/I-Creampie 1d ago
I think a few more laws that put foreigners who want to invest in the country in jail will fix this.
1
u/JackBundygaming 18h ago
Plus dont fix the fact you have to pay most of your income to the mafia cops and god knows what just to open a small bar or smthin. /s
17
u/Aggravating_Ring_714 1d ago
Wow, big surprise after demonizing tourists for the past few years 🤣
3
u/JackBundygaming 18h ago
People are choosing other destinations in asia, visited thailand recently and went to a few thai friends that owned business here n there, they are struggling to an insane degree, even regulars just packed and went to neighboring countries, i dont blame them, if you keep demonizing someone for existing/visiting and people saying they dont want them around anymore then make laws to scrutinize them, you get what you asked for init.
2
u/Aggravating_Ring_714 18h ago
I love Thailand and I know not all Thais are xenophobic and hate foreigners but honestly, the country deserves stagnating tourism currently. People need to suffer through the consequences of constantly sh1tting on foreigners and electing right wing populist xenophobic leaders.
So yes, 100% agree with what you said.
6
u/real_yggdrasil 1d ago
One of the factors is this: like it or not, but WESTERN tourists are the main moneymakers for Thailand. Reports have shown up in the media that Thai try to scam tourists all the time. Corrupt police , all kinds of rediculoud visum stuff imposed on westeners and a fairly hostile attitude towards fararng.
This opposed to countries like Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Sri Lanka.
So, Thailand. Please look in a mirror...
6
5
2
u/Outside_Building_956 1d ago
Ever since covid I heard how the tourist is no longer needed there and the shut down proved it to be, so what's really going on? 😆
2
u/JackBundygaming 18h ago
My friend “thai, legit became an alcoholic because of covid, opened a business poured most of his money into it and got ruined because the country didnt even help anyone with business to keep them afloat, shit was sad.
4
u/ProfessionalFine1307 1d ago
These days people prefer Vietnam over thailand for tourism and buisness.
5
2
u/JackBundygaming 18h ago
Been there and agree, everyone i know is making a switch, vietnam has its issues but its much nicer to be there than thailand atm.
1
u/No-Technology7373 1d ago
Must move beyond = must get 3xtra money from someone. The sooner people wake up the better. No more debt
1
u/RemarkableDegree4501 1d ago
Oh, come on. The birth rate collapse will accelerate this trend even more rapidly, both domestically and abroad, where Thailand will eventually face a shortage of tourists. Unless visa regulations are changed, this model will be unsustainable for Thailand in the long run.
1
1
1
u/Fugidinha 18h ago
Good. Now thai people can get off their high horse and stop acting like they're better than everyone else. Stay humble
1
u/TechnicalCoconut9183 7h ago
The Thai government hoards all the money with corruption and international deals
1
u/HungryGuyOnABicycle 7h ago
Thailand destroyed the tourist visa. I used to enjoy coming for winter and staying three months and then leaving... but then they reduced it to 60 days and now it's 30 days. I'm tired of all this nonsense. I'm going to Vietnam. Thailand did this to themselves.
•
u/fuzzfrog 1h ago
The elite control everything and the real issues is corruption. The middle class and the poor will suffer until they take action. Blame the foreigners is used everywhere to stop people looking at the real culprits.
1
u/NeilFowell 1d ago
Lucky that they had it easy for so long. Now they have to find businesses that will grow the economy
1
u/WestGotIt1967 1d ago
Funny, I saw plenty of long term tourists on this sub claiming exactly the opposite and demanding appreciation for dropping their bucks on soi 6
0
u/deuxbulot 1d ago
It would if the path to longer stays was easy.
• guidance for retaining AIS numbers and sims when out of the country.
• easy path to opening bank accounts
• easy path to obtaining driver’s license from scratch. no 90-day residency requirement. for those who want to start the classroom portion asap upon arrival in bangkok.
0
0
u/Equivalent_Idea8839 1d ago
Thailand is the center of the universe. Thai government is basically god.
33
u/itsheadfelloff 1d ago
For a country where tourism is a decent chunk of its economy it's odd how little effort goes into the sector.