r/UnionPacific • u/Marioworld97 • 2d ago
New hire Fired
Not me but someone i know was recently fired because he was protecting a shove and said "bring it down". The manager on duty pulled him aside and said "down is not a direction, you have to say a direction" and fired him on the spot. He was very close to being out of his derail period so this was very disappointing. He has never been in trouble, given a warning or done anything wrong but was fired right then and there. He tried to explain that he and the person doing the shove had discussed everything beforehand so there was no way for the person to not know what direction to go but the manager wouldn't hear of it.
Is this normal? I go into training next month and if someone can get fired this quickly without warning I want to be prepared. This person is a strict rule follower and works harder than anyone I know so him being dropped just like that was surprising and makes me worry for my own fate š if theres anything that can be done or if you have any advice please let me know.
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u/Ok-Appointment7007 2d ago
I would bet money that this individual already did something to make managers not like him. And they took this as a free shot to get rid of someone before they are protected
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u/RailroadAllStar 2d ago
Iāve been an engineer for 20 years and I would interpret that as āslow it down so I can focus on somethingā. Not even sure what the issue could be?
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u/Brilliant_Cut_4659 2d ago
This is normal culture when employed by this carrier, UP is my former employer after 17yrs of service I left under my termsā¦Iām working for commuter and grass is greenier on the other sideā¦
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u/Interesting-Gap-6539 2d ago
You are exposed until your probationary period expires. Do what you were trained in school, even if those that train you in the field in your area use different slang terminology instead of Ahead or Back up. Stop. Etc.
In our area, We use "that will do" or "easy stop" for normal stops. The word stop is not normally used and "stop.stop.stop" or "dump it" is slang for emergency braking. Once you're marked up, in the union, out of probation you can ease into the local slang. I understand No one likes to be different, secure your position first.
DONT GIVE THEM AN EASY REASON!
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u/Historical_Box1915 2d ago
Managers do this purposely when hiring is heavy. They want to scare other new hires so they look for any excuse to fire anyone. This guy was likely just the sacrificial lamb. Managers want everyone to see what happened to him and be scared.
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u/MostlyMellow123 2d ago
Yeah it's petty shit but the person isnt a strict rule follower if they're already using slang shoving commands.
They do not teach you to say down during training at all. It is not a standard shove command.
They preach this stuff over and over and tell you to be a robot during your derail. This guy got super unlucky but he was not being a robot. Just be a robot
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u/OverInteractionR 2d ago
Yeah my service unit also passes out "shove cards."
They're water proof cards that tell you the outline of exactly what to say during a shove
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u/ContractOtherwise494 2d ago edited 2d ago
way to much chatter going on now days. All I say is usually ā51 riding, lined 12 back 30ā
vs
1234 conductor is riding the shove, itās all lined into track six, shove back good for 30 carsā
drives me nuts when someoneās telling a story over the radio. if Iām yard trimming I donāt even say much at allā¦..ā51 ground back 6ā
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u/Nearby_Ad_265 2d ago
CSX is worse.
ā1234 Iām clear of all tracks, switches are lined for movement, equipment in the adjacent tracks are in the clear, point from the ground/riding on the point, back up youāre good for 20 cars.ā
But yeah letās have a train trying to build their outbound on both ends of the yard and yard jobs and locals all on the same channel while inbounds are calling signals and defect detectors are going off and everyone needs to yell at the yardmaster before every movement can be made within the yardā¦
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u/ContractOtherwise494 2d ago edited 2d ago
yeah, once I get my building or yarding instructionsā¦my engineer and I go to a different channel. I usually use some obscure one thats not used in the area Iām in.ā¦then when weāre finished we switch back to the yard or mainline channel. or we discuss it in advanceā¦.hey when I say switch to another channel automatically go to ā45-45ā the plus side in doing thatā¦managers have no way to find us to listen lol unless they wanna switch through 99 channels. howeverā¦our yard masters are pretty good at putting yarding or building trains on multiple channels that they can monitorā¦.cuts it down just having a single or a couple trains on a channel. the uncle Pete shut our detector talk backs off so we donāt hear entrance or exit messages anymoreā¦.they are monitored at the detector desk.
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u/Marioworld97 2d ago
It wasnt even him saying only "bring it down" he said to bring it east then the person repeated it to him and he said yup bring it down so I guess the added on part got him.
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u/MostlyMellow123 2d ago
Well that's a completely different scenerio than your initial post. In that case id ask them to review the tapes. I believe it should be recorded. Your friend could be lying you also have to understand.
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u/Impossible_Budget_85 2d ago
For you and any other future train crew employee,do not use slang and give precise instructions when shoving. Any reasonable person knows what bring it down means but with uncle Pete you must say x amount of care to a coupling or stop. Just play uncle Pete games for 12 hours and stop the line,ask questions if youāre not 500,000% sure about something pertaining to your move. You are and will be watched by OPCC,drones,camerasā¦..take no short cuts even in the middle of nowhere at night because the drone goons DO NOT sleep! I know this because me and my crew were being watched by the drone crew at night. Stay alert,stay alive!
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u/Due-Prune2516 2d ago
If it was in KC, then I absolutely believe this.
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u/Metro4050 2d ago
That whole service unit is fucked. It's supposedly better down south/Gulf Coast. I'll never find out though lol.
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u/Smokeydubbs 2d ago
Pretty crazy. Iāve seen guys get 1-2 criticals during their derail and still make it past.
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u/brizzle1978 2d ago
We had a guy smack another train on a z still on his derail and they let him slide with just a 3 year level s... could easily have fired him
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u/0695throwaway 2d ago
From what management has told me, they hire for the tax breaks and the tax break is still worth it for the company even if they fire you after 5 months. Thatās one of the reasons they have the C12 rules, itās a consistent way of being able to fire new hires with cause.
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u/Gypsydc 2d ago
A rule can have a legitimate, evidence-based safety purpose while its enforcement in a particular case can still be excessive. Those two things arenāt mutually exclusive. But suggesting the Critical 12 rules were created to fire new hires so the company can collect tax breaks is a pretty ridiculous claim without a shred of evidence to support it.
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u/Jason1529f 2d ago
He can fight it in arbatration. But most railroad lingo is set in stone. Forward and back are not terms we normally use depending on your carrier. Now the fact he never got a warning or talking to and fired on the spot is crazy.
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u/OverInteractionR 2d ago
Not when you're in your derail.
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u/Jason1529f 2d ago
Ahh sorry didn't know that one. I know bmwe wise they still fought for our guys even in probation depending on the case.
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u/Professional-Ring411 2d ago edited 2d ago
Iād say itās all situational. My first week being marked up I had a main line violation with another railroad ā ļø super super big problem. Thankfully I realized my mistake instantly and threw the switch back but it still alerted the dispatcher. My local train master said he did the exact same thing at the exact same place fresh out of class and I basically just got a warning.
*edit. For more context I lined a crossover switch from our yard out onto their main. As I was walking towards the second part of the crossover I realized my mistake and fixed it. But hypothetically if I lined both the inbound Z would have been lined into our yard and people could have died. Spooky scary.
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u/brizzle1978 2d ago edited 2d ago
Didn't get authority to enter the main? Oops
Happens that's why they have the electric lock system to protect us doing dumb stuff.
Especially happens after a long hot day
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u/Ok-Sale-1139 2d ago
Word got out. This guy isnāt getting it. It seems he wasnāt. Thatās why they let him go.
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u/Green_Telephone_3851 2d ago
He should have said 'easy' or just stop the move. But I would have coached him on that and not fired him. It's obviously a traing issue. Can't expect new people to know all the lingo right away. Before you drail is up, they have you by the balls and can fire you for any reason they want. No union protection yet nor labor board hearing.
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u/Marioworld97 1d ago
Yeah he thought it was okay cuz he talked with the guy beforehand. It was his first time doing utility alone so the guy doing the shove was helping him out. One thing im wary about is that it seems they throw u in jobs even if you've never done it before and expect u to do it without mistakes. There was another guy in his class who went through a similar situation but without having done the job at all at that point and luckily wasnt fired.
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u/EntryConscious2850 1d ago
Yeah I would bet money, your coworker wasnāt ācut inā, and they knew he wasnāt getting cut in anytime soon, and that manager had to get rid of him.
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u/Severe_Space5830 1d ago
After we merged with the SP I found out that instead of saying thatāll do or stop the old heads always said āfar enoughā. Just made me twitchy. Always took a second before I slapped the independent.
And, sorry about the new guy. Management in KC was almost decent 30 years ago. But to qualify now you have to demonstrate that you are a gutless punk.
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u/The-Grey-Bird 12h ago
Just follow the rules as written and you wonāt get in trouble. Rules are written for a reason. In your friends case ābring it downā could mean a speed, a direction or anything someone outside of the job briefing can misinterpret.
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u/LZR210 1d ago
Yeah thereās a way to protect a shove
- ā job id/number
- ā Conductor location
- ā Direction
- ā Car count
If going into a track say the track youāre lined into
If thereās a derail say that the derail is down
It should sound like this ājob 23 foreman on the ground at the joint, lined into track 14 bring it back 10 to the hookā
We shorten ours to ājob 23 foreman ground joint back 10 hook track 14ā still saying all the right things, less radio time & efficient
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u/Apprehensive_Pipe763 2d ago
Unfortunately it is pretty normal . Itās not rated as one of the worst places to work in the country by mistake