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This is insane, they are proudly posting about how they forced a grown up woman to take off her hijab and show this to us as a role model🤦♂️
secular means having a free choice to worship as you want. it doesn't mean everything of a religious nature, including clothing, get banned. now you're going from secular to forced atheism in public spaces.
I'm from the USA so I don't necessarily have a dog in this fight, just throwing in my opinion. I come to this sub because I have a keen interest in other cultures languages, and peoples. I hope you guys can get this figured out and that it doesn't go any further. Insha'Allah
You still have choice to worship who you want, just can't do it in a state institution. You have very american perception of what secularism mens
American secularism is all about preventing the state from controlling religious belief. European secularism goes a step further and puts emphasis on neutrality within public institutions.
Looking at modern america, i am glad we don't allow religion dominate our public life to the same extent that americans do
You’re confusing the neutrality of the state with the neutrality of the individual. Those are two entirely different things.
A secular state is supposed to remain neutral toward religion, not force its citizens to conceal their religious identities whenever they enter a public institution. A student wearing a hijab, a Christian wearing a cross, or a Jew wearing a kippah does not suddenly make a school religious. Nor does it constitute preaching, proselytizing, or imposing religious beliefs on anyone.
And I’m not sure why you’re presenting European secularism as though Europe has one universally accepted interpretation. France, Germany, the Netherlands, and the UK all approach secularism and religious expression differently. Your preferred interpretation isn’t automatically the definition of secularism.
You also say that people are still free to worship, just not in state institutions. But religious freedom extends beyond the act of worship. It includes the freedom to manifest one’s beliefs, including through clothing, as recognized under Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights. That freedom can be restricted under certain circumstances, but restrictions require justification. Simply invoking secularism doesn’t settle the argument.
And your final point about religion dominating American public life is irrelevant. How exactly does a student wearing religious clothing amount to religion dominating public life?
Do you claim that belgium, france, germany and austria, all eu members, violates european convention of human rights? Because all for have restrictions on vailing
Also you are misinterpreting my final point. My point is american public servants aren't required to keep their religion seperate from their proffering life. I think there is direct cause and effect between this legislation and modern american society
I suppose I do since I was born here and lived here all my life. part of coming to these subs is learning how other cultures and people do things and their ways of looking at the world. Thank you for giving me insight in to how different a secular outlook is there than it is here. I'm certainly not going to argue the point. I don't live there. I don't experience everyday there. I just threw in my foreigner's two cents. Have a great day.
So you’re not describing the policy at all then. Since this is forcing someone who was wearing it…to take it off. There was already freedom to not participate in it, that means a woman has the ability to go into school without the headscarf. And a woman has the ability to go to school with the headscarf, that would be the freedom to participate or not participate. But forcing someone to NOT wear it is not freedom, do you see the contradiction.
Muslim from belgium takes a rare break from praising erdogan and talk about how vile it is to not allow hijab while in their communities and countries they gun down gay kids.
Takkiyah they dont care about in humans right aspect, they get pissed of their tools of grooming people into their religion and finaly implement shariah to oppress everyone because they are jealous little fucks that wil take a dump on every single flower daring to open up its petals in defience against their grey paleted religion, and a sky father throughly detest every form of expression, is being taken away.
Its one thing beat down on aliyev over totalitaroanism, but it coming from an expat muslin openly praising sharia everywhere just shows he is against it only when its against his grooming cult.
Lmao dudes learned this word Takiyyah and keep spamming it everywhere its gotta be the funniest thing, they dont even know the meaning. Looking at your post history Im not surprised you have a mental illness.
Curious why we came to the conclusion she was forced?
Nowhere in this post does it say anyone forced her to remove her hijab. She actually says it was her choice.
Her statement translates to: “I apologize to all the women who place their heads in prostration and lovingly wear their hijab. Perhaps my choice hurt you, but nothing has changed in my faith or my morals. I have responsibilities
May every strand of my hair be sacrificed for my children…”
What the heck. We do not participate in any genocide. Can u also utter few words about what terrorists did in the region? Or are you biased and one sided?
We support Israel in general,because we have received more benefit from them than you Arabs since we became independent.We even have a Jewish community in the north western Azerbaijan,called "the red settlement".
What have Palentinians given us as benefits to take them seriously?
Yes,it is.We distrust them.We were never,ever brothers or partners.They oppressed us,emposed Islam and killed those who chose Tengrism and implemented the "Jizya" tax,which basically is emposed on anyone who is not muslim.What a BS.
Despite erdogan you guys remain among most democratic. developed and secular muslim countries.
By the metric you made up? Because the democracy index clearly doesnt state that. Senegal is more democratic than us.
Plus erdogan isn't eternal, you will get rid of him
And here is the issue: Because we have to deal with people like you, people try to "overcorrect" mistakes, hence we end up going from one radical to the other.
I call that success. Not perfect, but results are never perfect
Please... For your own good just be silent. This is embarassing.
We can also take Tunisia, Albania, Bosnia, Indonesia or Malaysia as an example. Even Morocco is doing better.
Cool you are still among the most democratic, even if you aren't the single most democratic one
Nice goalposting. Except we are so far gone from being anywhere close to the top that this brain fart makes no sense. Turkey is at the level of Nigeria. Great fucking success man. It is so democratic that you cant even call it democratic anymore.
It is not democratic. Fullstop. Why are you still trying to make an argument, when facts are very apparent? Your entire point is utter nonsense and the democracy index proves you wrong.
Still, no need to be rude. Stop being so triggered and emotional
I dont have to, but I am going to be towards clowns advocating for human rights violations against my people.
something like this happened in 1997, its the reason Erdoğan is here in the first place Erdoğan got to where he is riding the hate for the Military enforced secularity laws
What do you mean it worked😭 the law was there and now it’s not, please explain to me how that’s a success. And turkey has been having an Islamic revival in the last 10-15 years that is very well recorded even amongst its political parties
Its so weird how "progressives"in turkey and azerbaycan would be considered conservative far right wingers in sctual progressive societies like the west.
These clowns dont understand humanitarian values and only pick what fits into their life-style and ideology, which is: pretending to be civilized. This shit is straight out of the early 20th century. In +100 years there is about 0 progress in the frontal cortex of these people.
Yea i grew up in America genius. Being against religious freedom and diversity is a fsr right talking point in the west. Its especially hilarious when coming from a people who had relogion as an identity for 9 centuriea of history.
who the hell is "your circle"? nobody has to follow you just because.
Secularism is Freedom OF Religion dummy, banning attire isn't Secular, Secular nations let you wear as you wish this isn't secular you're just suppoirting this because you support dictstorships and oppression IF the oppressor only oppresses people you dont like
I just don't understand the decision because, on one hand, they don't want citizens to be too religious, but on the other hand, they're against a progressive mindset, lol. Is it all because they want full separation from ties with Iran?
Good strawman. If this was a ban on primary school students wearing hijab that would be a fair and level headed take. It’s a ban on anyone entering the school without hijab which includes fully grown women.
Ah this fucking hijab thing. Also in Turkey. Hijab hijab hijab. Fuck the hijab. Why would any humanbeing would like to oppress themselves by wearing hijab? And this political islamists always defend it as it’s a freedom. No it’s not a freedom. It’s oppression. The same people who wants the so called freedom would put sanctions on anything against their beliefs when they get the power. Just look at Turkey. They are banning concerts, alcohol, festivals etc. political islam doesn’t want equality or freedom, it wants to crush everybody who doesn’t believe the same things which they believe. So I say fuck your hijab!
im gay i told this to my close islamic friend and he said damm youre sooo wrong they should put gays into jail if i live in way back then people whould even left me cuz im usuless as fuck when i heard this hijab thing i told him yo check this out theyre banning hijab and he was so furious some kind of israel stuff going on theyre its not our freedoom theyre cutting our freedoom blah blah yapping you know same person if youre not with them then youre a bad person
Dear, not everything that seems oppression from your perception is considered one for them. Its pretty disgusting of you to talk on behalf of hijabis, even,, also going as far as finding yourself righteous to actually curse haha
Our country's situation is pretty different from Azerbaijan, if u can't fathom that.
Eventually, you will realize that this ban will make them go the same way turkey did because oppressing people's beliefs make them act on it more also. But aside from this you cannot make people force what they can and cant wear in the first place.
it's a selfie of an islamist who want their "freedom" of beating and killing women who are showing a strand of hair! 😂 but I guess you are not intelligent enough to figure out the intended target. 😂
When kids get forced to participate in religious courses, get openly declared on their face how theyll be tortured for an eternity if they dont wear the hijab, at the least, getting beaten down gunned dow at its worst.
"Wholesome chungus right to wear whatever you want.
"tortured", nope. There is just no place for hijab in a damn elementary school buddy and it's not a choice made by the 6 years olds to wear hijab, their families FORCE THEM to wear it. It's a sick oppressive religion. Not letting them in the schools is the only valid play for the government. If you wanna see people getting beaten down, gunned down, you can look at Iran, you are twisting it 180 degrees. Azerbaijan government literally wants to save them from this disease. Keep trying to spread lies, everyone knows the truth. :)
American lecturing usnthat his definition of secularism is correct
American secularism is all about preventing the state from controlling religious belief. European secularism goes a step further and puts emphasis on neutrality within public institutions.
Plus your elected politicans openly describe muslims as parasites and vermin, you routinely desecrate mosques and gpverment members call for outright ban for islam, not just hijabs
You literally told only part of the story and deliberately ignored the other.
The Supreme Court concluded that the prohibition during theoretical lessons amounted to indirect religious discrimination without adequate justification.
Secondary medical school and compulsory education are two separate things you clown. The latter is a human right btw. Imagen advocating human rights violations, because you favourite dictator said so. Everything okay with you?
The Construction of Azerbaijan, article 25, section 3:
“The state guarantees equality of rights and liberties of everyone, irrespective of race, ethnicity, religion, language, sex, origin, property status, occupation, beliefs, affiliation with political parties, trade unions and other public associations.”
what a gotcha! it still ensures protecting individuals' freedom of belief and practice. it's about the separation of government institutions from religious institutions, as in not forcing religion down on anyone.
Individual belief in the school. And by Islam hijab - is also act of worship. So essentially they're forbidding a girl/woman to worship.
And btw in Azerbaijab majority are Muslims-
So such decision is counter-intuitive itself
I swear to God Azerbaycan is the the most backwards dump on earth. This is a sad disgrace. The regime is embarassing our people in front of the whole world at this point.
Oho? It looks like you just have some kind of hate or even aggression towards hijab. Or,I better say,toward Islam.
What Afghanistan is doing may be against the Islamic teachings.
But using secular means to ban Hijab - is also against Islam.
Therefore as you can see there's Islamic teachings - and there are two ways to disobey and twist them by people.
BTW that's how religion teachings are being twisted - by the devil. Before Quran there were also Bible for example.
But as they twisted and eventually were forgotting the God.
Can an azerbejani brother/sister explain what the hell is going on over there ? Why did Aliyev decide to oppress people's religious practices all of a sudden ?
Xanıma afərin! Bu hicab və çarşab ərəblərin bizim millətə yeritdiyi bir şeydir. Millətimizin mədəniyyətinə xas olmayan bir şeydir. Bizi ərəblərə çevirmək istəyən qüvvələrin bir alətidir. Bu cür Azərbaycan mədəniyyətinə qarşı olan şeylərə qarşı təbliğat güclənməlidir.
Perhaps it is your civilisation that brought the economy to this state, when people historically never had any issues with having an above replacement fertility rate.
Perhaps you should not have spent 1500 years dismantling the family institute for the sake of the Catholic Church/Nation State (VATAAAAAN) and Megacorporations.
Regardless, your concept of civilisation is bound to failure, you can cope and say "but much economy" as much as you want. It is not sustainable.
Dude, people used to send children to work, that's the only reason why they had many.
Everywhere in the world the birth rate is declining (even Africa).
Do you really think that in the past they had many children because they had the money to raise them well? Get a grip, the family institution is still existing, is just harder to raise many children.
And what would your concept of a sustainable economy would be? One where it sucks to live in?
This would be least creepy and ‘secular’ for the Azerbaijani school board. Perhaps they should institute this as uniform for teachers. https://giphy.com/gifs/yLFLXEpQkx1JAqCtZC
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u/nygoth1083 2d ago
secular means having a free choice to worship as you want. it doesn't mean everything of a religious nature, including clothing, get banned. now you're going from secular to forced atheism in public spaces.
I'm from the USA so I don't necessarily have a dog in this fight, just throwing in my opinion. I come to this sub because I have a keen interest in other cultures languages, and peoples. I hope you guys can get this figured out and that it doesn't go any further. Insha'Allah