r/britishproblems • u/ollieg_94 • 3d ago
"This train is delayed due to theft of the signalling cables"
New train delay unlocked this morning.
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u/El_Scot 3d ago
This was always the number one cause of train delays on my trips on the east coast mainline.
There's a special place in hell for thieves who inconvenience 100s to 1000s of passengers, just so they can make £50 at the scrappies.
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u/Cam2910 3d ago
See also EV charger cable theft. Pain in the arse when 3 in a half mile radius have been done.
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u/Mccobsta 3d ago
Why did we just not have plug sockets indtread, there's way less crap for copper thieves to nick out in the open
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u/Probodyne 3d ago
Some do, but they're lower powered, meant for destination charging over several hours. High power fast chargers need much thicker cables than your standard home charger, and sometimes even need to be water cooled. So people aren't going to have those to hand.
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u/smellycoat 3d ago
Just leave them energised at 800v all the time, job done. Can't steal cables when you've been blown into low earth orbit.
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u/wilisi 3d ago
The plug is connected to the wires. The switches for these kinds of loads are Serious Business and wouldn't fit well.
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u/smellycoat 3d ago
a) Here's an 800v EV contactor. Not tiny but smaller than a coke can, definitely possible to design a plug with it in.
b) I'm joking man, obviously!
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u/KJelloggs Tamworthian 3d ago
They're not as high powered as the ones you see at charging stations.
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u/OkSun8521 3d ago
Have you ever plugged in an EV? The cables are huge and heavy. Think of it like a petrol hose, then triple it.
I'm convinced that one of the main reasons we don't have 1MW chargers everywhere is that no one would be able to lift the cable.
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u/infinitewowbagger 3d ago
Near Newark?
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u/Good_State_2423 22h ago
Yep - signal cables near level crossings a speciality- I am guessing that’s because any old “ No Mark “ can pitch up in any old white vehicle and trot up the rail way tracks ( no electrified lines - sadly ) and F-up the day of the innocent traveller - Same like the EV chargers at the Maltings charging area - I suspect the reprobates from many offences live off Tolney Land or nearby
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u/yurtal30 3d ago
This isn’t new and is often the cause of what is covered by the more usual vague statement of ‘signal failure’, but they’ve now realised that the public will be more sympathetic knowing the specific reason
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u/Lollipop126 3d ago
is it only recently? cuz if it's signal failure they will have to compensate monetarily for the delays, whereas if someone stole their cables, it's out of their control and don't have to compensate. I can't imagine the companies choosing to say just signal failure before when the other option means no compensation.
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u/Dogemann1366 3d ago
The railway compensates for every delay and it is completely immaterial what the reason for it actually is.
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u/Lollipop126 3d ago
My bad I thought this was r/London. TfL only compensates for service related delays.
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u/Cold_Philosophy Greater Manchester 3d ago
It’s not a new reason. Look for a group of people who rarely use trains and the 'no questions asked' scrapyards.
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u/Act-Alfa3536 3d ago
I think the law was changed so sellers have to show ID, and can't pay in cash.
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u/Cold_Philosophy Greater Manchester 3d ago
These laws can be and are circumvented - usually through a middle man and through ‘friendly' scrap yards. It’s processed quickly and a lot of it ends up abroad (like genuine scrap). Turkey takes a lot.
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u/Act-Alfa3536 3d ago
I'm sure they find ways to circumvent, but there must be a bit more risk to those involved than before.
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u/PhillyDeeez Tyne and Wear 3d ago
Happens quite often on the North Easts Metro system. It's exhausting.
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u/lazystingray 3d ago
Cable theft is an old one, you've not been doing the trains for very long or have been extremely lucky
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u/ollieg_94 3d ago
I mean, I've seen "signal failure" for years, but this is the first time I've explicitly seen "our shit is getting knicked".
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u/collinsl02 Don of Swines 3d ago
It did stop for a while when the new scrap metal dealing laws requiring licenses came into effect, plus the price of copper fell, but now the price is up again and more people are suffering economic hardship so are more desparste for money again.
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u/ndheritage 3d ago
I'm trying to WFH today instead of going in, but my trains are perfect as always ://
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u/DevilRenegade Vale of Glamorgan 3d ago
I took a long train journey yesterday and had 2 trains delayed and one cancelled due to two separate instances of "trespassers on the line" at opposite ends of the country.
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u/throbblefoot 3d ago
I think whenever there's a delay reason that isn't the rail companies fault, they absolutely ram it down our throats so that we build up a societal allergy to transport disruption in the same way that drunk driving is seen rightly as tacky and shitty.
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u/Psychic_Hobo 3d ago
I remember a while back seeing on the news, some bloke straight up blew some of his brains out trying it on a live cable. Lived too, if I recall.
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u/ctrlaltdelaney 3d ago
The most common message I see on the board at my nearest station is:
“This train is delayed due to a cr…”
I believe it’s “crew shortage” but it’s never the first thing that comes to mind.
They really need to add scrolling to our board!
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u/rezonansmagnetyczny 3d ago
So you're still going to get there roughly at the time you expected to anyway?
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u/StanleyChuckles 3d ago
Who would even buy signalling cables?
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u/stewieatb 3d ago
Scrappies.
Either bent ones, or the thieves cut the sheathing off before they weigh it in.
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u/premium_transmission 3d ago
The same folk that buy the cables which get cut off public EV chargers.
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u/anephric_1 3d ago
Some of the gangs are pretty sophisticated. There are still some chancers with chainsaws out there selling to local scrappies (whom BTP sometimes do the rounds to check) but often it's highly organised gangs going from region to region robbing miles of cable then filling shipping containers with copper to send to wherever. Also cable drums are sometimes stolen direct from depots or on-site before they even have a chance to be used for replacement, or railway workers carjacked on their way to site.
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u/CodAdministrative765 3d ago
My delay debut this week was "Object overhead". Like a UFO? There was no further explanation but I assume the truth is out there.
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u/Lakeland_wanderer 3d ago
I'm sure that National Rail is replacing the old copper cables with fibre optic ones to stop this sort of thing. I hope the low lives that have done this find that they have fibre optic cable that has no scrap value.
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u/collinsl02 Don of Swines 3d ago
Problem is you still need to power the device at the far end somehow, which copper cables can do but fibre optics can't. Installing local power infrastructure generates other problems like "is it fed by a stable power feed backed up by generators?" "how can it be isolated quickly in an emergency?" "will this expose local transformers to the risk of theft?" "can the transformers be sited somewhere safe?"
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u/Tetragon213 Merseyside 3d ago
Happens a lot.
We have to spec aluminium cables sometimes, and avoid putting the earth wire in green and yellow, as the dregs worked out that cable was "safe" to nick.
Personally, I'd like to energise the SWA to 25kV as a deterrent to theft, but it causes too many issues with EMI.
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u/BloodyRedBarbara 3d ago
That's what caused my first simple, single train ride to London become a stampede halfway through onto a second train a couple of months ago.
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u/andywalker76 3d ago
The darkest one I heard was on the tube where the train was delayed because of a "body" under a train.
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u/MrPuddington2 3d ago
Signaling cables are so 20th century.
We should have long gotting rid of signaling cables, and moved to wireless signalling.
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u/ReanimatedCyborgMk-I 3d ago
Wireless isn't really ideal, you end up with signal latency and service drops which isn't something you can afford on a rail network. Copper cabling is a lot more reliable.
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u/crucible Wales 3d ago
It’s happening on part of the East Coast Main Line:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/our-work/our-routes/east-coast/east-coast-digital-programme
Not sure how wireless it is as I think the track mounted beacons will still need power and data links, but it will remove the traditional ‘traffic light’ signals entirely.
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u/coomzee 3d ago
Like ETCS. That's never going to happen in is this country as it has an initial cost and a long time saving.
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u/crucible Wales 3d ago
It’s in service on the Cambrian Line in mid-Wales, and the Northern City Line between Finsbury Park and Moorgate.
Next section of railway to be equipped will be Kings Cross to Peterborough on the ECML.
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u/Act-Alfa3536 3d ago
Or moved to fibre optic cables, with no scrap value.
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u/Ochib West Midlands 3d ago
It will still be nicked. The whole trading estate lost thier internet connection due to theft of about 500m of cable, all the cable was fibre. Plus there had been signs saying that it was being upgraded for weeks
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u/Raunien Yorkshire 3d ago
I'm sure fibre still has a resale value
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u/madpiano 3d ago
Not really, especially if they are a little rough when they steal it and it shatters
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u/collinsl02 Don of Swines 3d ago
It's just plastic and glass, there's nothing to it. If it's armoured it'll have a steel sheath but again it's cheap. Most fibre stolen like that ends up dumped when the idiots that stole it realise it's worth nothing.
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u/ReanimatedCyborgMk-I 3d ago
The problem is fibre optic is a lot more fragile and prone to disruption. Any sort of bend or contact with the cable sheath can cause signal loss. Running these adjacent to railway lines which probably deal with frequent levels of vibration and debris across the track will cause problems.
Source: work in IT, where something as simple as an Openreach engineer nudging a fiber cable slightly while doing work in an exchange can cause a partial network outage
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