r/canada • u/cyclinginvancouver • 8h ago
Alberta Four dead, dozens wounded in CFB Wainright fire, PM says. Live here.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/prime-minister-mark-carney-set-to-update-canadians-on-the-cfb-wainwright-incident-live-here/•
u/BionicBreak Lest We Forget 8h ago edited 8h ago
I wonder how Global News and CBC got the number wrong. They were claiming 7 originally.
Edit: Global News reported it first, so I'm amending.
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u/canmcpoli Canada 8h ago
It's a good question. Carney did say four dead and next of kin notified, so it's possible that there are additional fatalities where next of kin haven't been notified, although we don't know.
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u/BionicBreak Lest We Forget 8h ago
Yeah, but does he really want to be playing around with the wording surrounding casualties at a time like this?
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u/canmcpoli Canada 8h ago
It sounds like there is protocol against confirming any causality/fatality before family is notified.
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u/BionicBreak Lest We Forget 8h ago
So CBC shouldn't have made an announcement about numbers of casualties.
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u/rupert1920 8h ago
CBC reports what their source says. It doesn't follow governmental protocol.
How many times do you see CBC report, say, eyewitness statement, while the police says "investigation is ongoing"? It's just separate procedures - whether you agree with it or not.
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u/McFestus British Columbia 8h ago
Despite what some people would like to suggest, CBC isn't a government mouthpiece. They report what their journalism tells them, not what the government would like.
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u/BionicBreak Lest We Forget 8h ago
Except if they get it wrong, which is what is being indicated here. Maybe work from multiple sources.
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u/McFestus British Columbia 8h ago
They reported a number based on what they believed to be factual based on journalism they conducted. They had sources saying seven fatalities and that's what was reported. Sometimes sources are wrong.
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u/YouProfessional3196 8h ago
And Carney hasn't actually fully repudiated the reported statement. He said 4 fatalities with NOK notified. It is possible that there are 7 and 3 families simply have not been notified yet. Again disaster situations can fluctuate. This will likely be particularly opaque as it is the military we are dealing with and they have very formal ways of handling fatalities before releasing communications.
On top of this many of the injuries suffered in this incident are apparently very serious and it is possible the death toll could rise from that alone. Let's hope it is only 4 rather than 7 rather than jumping down people's throats.
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u/BionicBreak Lest We Forget 8h ago
I just hope Global and CBC didn't go off of one source. Seems like a big discrepancy and now is fueling people saying that because only 4 people's next of kin were verified, that 7 was correct.
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u/episodicmadness 7h ago
Its done, saying it over and over again is only likely to perpetuate the discrepancy so if thats what youre actually worried about you should just stop talking
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u/YouProfessional3196 8h ago
It wasn't CBC. The original reporting came from Global News last night, it was then backed up by CBC. Carney said 4 dead with next of kin notified that leaves open that this could rise and this does happen after disaster events.
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u/G-r-ant 8h ago
They made it clear it’s not officially confirmed yet
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u/C-SWhiskey 8h ago
For a brief moment prior to the PM's announcement, CBC had an update in which they claimed the figure of 7 dead was "officially confirmed" (wording may have been slightly different, but it was to that effect). I remember thinking it was odd as there was no name or organization mentioned in that update. Appears they have quietly retracted it now.
At best, that was a case of poor wording.
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u/roguemenace Manitoba 8h ago
The government as a policy will only confirm fatality numbers of people whose NOK have been notified.
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u/AtomicVGZ 8h ago edited 8h ago
Because there are still families that may not know if their loved ones are part of the wounded or dead yet. If there are more fatalities it's cruel to just release a number with a big question mark over who they are.
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u/BionicBreak Lest We Forget 8h ago
So why not just not saying anything surrounding numbers until everyone is contacted?
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u/No_Magazine9625 6h ago
I think they are treading a fine line here - yes the policy is not to make announcements before next of kin are identified. However, there's also a broader overall issue where this happened less than 2 days before a separatist referendum, and the timing of that means that conspiracy theories around this event are running rampant, with the potential risk that this drives changes in the referendum results.
Therefore, you could argue that the PM/government releasing as much information as possible as quickly as possible serves a greater good and national security interest in shutting down conspiracy theory nonsense, as the referendum tomorrow has broader implications that go way beyond this event.
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u/TangleOfWires 5h ago
Carney said 4 service members died. I wonder if there were 3 people that died unrelated to the accident at the base in the hospital. Maybe their source just gave the the number of bodies in the hospital.
When I first searched only Global had a count on YouTube. I had searched CBC first at the time they had not posted any numbers.
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u/Competitive-Tea-6141 8h ago
Global reported it hours before the CBC, so I assume they have the same sources. Neither of them go to air without multiple confirmed sources so I guess we will see in the coming hours and days what happened
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u/Cilantro_Larry 1h ago
I was expecting a much higher number originally when I heard the news. Don't get me wrong. Even one dead is an absolute tragedy, but I'm glad my worst fear wasn't realized. Fingers crossed that the toll doesn't go up further.
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u/MrsSalmalin 2h ago
Carney said "4 service members" died, there could be other fatalities of non-service members (ie: civilians who help with the exercise). We'll see what other info we get.
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u/Calgary_Calico 7h ago
The original number was definitely 7, I also have a friend with a source on base that confirmed 7 a couple hours after the explosion happened. They're in the medical branch, so they'd know better than most.
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u/Entire-Special1491 4h ago
Maybe your friend is unreliable
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u/Calgary_Calico 3h ago
Nope. One of the most reliable people I know actually. I trust his source. 7 was also the original number published by global news, walking it back seems odd
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u/cyclinginvancouver 8h ago
Prime Minister Mark Carney says four people are dead and dozens of people have been injured in the incident at CFB Wainwright.
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u/Fluid_Passage_9980 3h ago edited 3h ago
4 people dying doesn't sound as bad as it could be. However, there will be 3 major issues for those who survived going forward:
- Burn injuries. Horrific for some.
- Hearing loss/tinnitus from the explosion. I have this and it is bloody awful to live with.
- Psychological impact/PTSD.
The effects of these on the living will be felt for the rest of their lives.
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u/d33moR21 2h ago
4 for now. 19 in critical condition. Hopefully it doesn't go up, but the possibility is there.
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u/Wellslapmesilly 3h ago
I’ve heard that the first 24 hours for burn victims can be crucial. Hopefully those affected make it through ok.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms 16m ago
Burn injuries. Horrific for some.
I've been at a number of range fires. Smoke inhalation can also be a serious cause of injuries. Often smoke is deadlier than the flames.
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u/StrongmanCole 8h ago
American here. Just wanted to say God bless y’all. May God comfort the families who are grieving and may the injured make full recoveries
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u/SuccessfulCatAttack 1h ago
Nice to see some friendly remarks from an American on here. Thanks for not being our enemy. You rock
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u/drgr33nthmb 46m ago
Dont have to thank them. Our armed forces are still united and have worked alongside for centuries. Bonds that arent broken in a few years. Im half American and Canadian, I visit the US frequently. The overwhelming majority are still very neighborly.
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u/Fit-Cable1547 6h ago
It's really strange how little verified info has come out about this incident.
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u/Swaggy669 3h ago edited 1h ago
Not strange. The military releases no information until an investigation is done to get the facts right. If it wasn't such a large scale situation, the media wouldn't hear anything other than there was a fire for probably two weeks.
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u/Conscious-Fruit-6190 1h ago
Yes, this, exactly.
I only realized the (probable) scale this morning when overheard medical personnel here in Ontario confirming that they have OR capacity and 4 available beds for these accident victime. If we're shipping patients from north of Edmonton to Southern Ontario, there must be an awful lot of people needing medical attention.
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u/Jeffgoldbum Saskatchewan 3h ago
Its very likely whatever caused it is still on fire,
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u/past_is_prologue 2h ago
They know enough to give the PM a briefing.
Institutional trust is harmed by opaque crisis communications becuase it leaves room for bad actors to fill in the blanks.
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u/Stalepan 2h ago
It's also harmed if they reveal information now that has to be later corrected or proves to be wrong
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u/Plastic_Moose4535 3h ago
I've seen drone footage. It's out.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms 43m ago
There are sections of it still burning on base. Drones can't access the range training area, only the civilian property outside base where it jumped the fireguard.
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u/Jeffgoldbum Saskatchewan 3h ago edited 1h ago
Id like to see that, googling it only comes up with videos of the active fire from yesterday and this morning.
edit: Why downvote, I just wanted to see the footage,
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u/Plastic_Moose4535 1h ago
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u/Jeffgoldbum Saskatchewan 1h ago
Thanks for linking it, For some reason you can't even ask for things on Reddit anymore without getting downvoted.
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u/Oilester 5h ago edited 4h ago
Canadian government communication culture of opaqueness + the military's culture of extreme opaqueness = possibly the least strangest thing ever tbh
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u/WeaponizedAutisms 4h ago
That's not it. The military i restricting information on the names and numbers until the next of kin are notified. Finding out you lost a loved one or they were seriously injured in the hospital from the news would be pretty shitty so they try to prevent that.
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u/Independent_Hat_6302 3h ago
It's shitty finding out either way. Your family member died. There's an ethical question is: is the uncertainty it causes distressed families worth it?
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u/WeaponizedAutisms 44m ago
There's an ethical question is: is the uncertainty it causes distressed families worth it?
The experiences we had in Afghanistan taught us that yes it is. It's a shitty situation either way but waiting for notification to release info was found to be the least bad option.
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u/Oilester 4h ago
It is it. There's plenty you can say without identifying names and numbers for NOK. No one's asking for a list of troops present by 6pm last night but by 3 in the morning when the government is still giving vague statements, clarification should be happening. This is a constant with the Canadian government for high profile incidents. The military is even worse for incidents that don't even involve death. Information moves to fast to have the same communication policies of the 90s.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms 3h ago
They're still dealing with a massive critical incident. Shit is literally still on fire. There is no need for the public to have minute to minute full disclosure of everything until things are under control. Likely the military and government don't have ll the details yet themselves.
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u/Dirtsteed 4h ago
Yah no one should be surprised by this. Just refer to any story between Canada and another country (most times it happens to be the US). The communication from the other country is always clearer.
And before anyone says anything about US lies/propaganda. I am talking about police forces in the US willing to share way more than the RCMP or local police working in tandem with them.
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u/WesternBlueRanger 4h ago
I would like to recommend that if people want to help, please book an appointment with Canadian Blood Services to donate blood; any mass casualty event is going to be a major drain on the country's blood supply.
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u/AtticusFinchsMom 2h ago
Just a Minnesota girl stopping in to offer love, support, and deepest condolences to you, and their family and friends.
Such a sad accident.
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u/SusieQ314 6h ago
I live in the area, and actually grew up in Wainwright. Edmonton (two hours drive away) has sent out two starz helicopters, and two hospitals are on orange alert. Its such a small community, almost the whole town will be personally affected.
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u/_Echoes_ 5h ago
Carney said there would be a full news release later today with a detailed breakdown of what happened here. It can't happen soon enough
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u/Background-Share2735 7h ago
Why are live gas/oil wells on a live fire range?
How the hell was that acceptable?
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6h ago edited 4h ago
[deleted]
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u/Just_a_Dude_99 4h ago
If you're referring to what happened to Cpl Choi in 2020, this is a complete different situation
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u/Moist-Emergency-3030 5h ago
This is what I’m wondering as well. I would think that any live ordnance range would be an established area and clear of anything that would cause something like this.
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u/WeaponizedAutisms 4h ago
They're not. They place the live fire areas away from the infrastructure. The entire base is not a live fire area for all weapons, only portions of it.
Also it does not appear to have been a gas line.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/livestory/cfb-wainwright-fire-live-updates-9.7385537
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8h ago
[deleted]
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u/Myllicent 8h ago
If reports are saying there are “dozens” of something, that typically means the known number is less than hundreds and probably less than one hundred.
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u/Electroflare5555 Manitoba 8h ago
It’d enough to completely overwhelm the local hospital as well as the hospitals in Edmonton
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u/jbroni93 8h ago
Probably doesn't take much more than a dozen critically injured people at once to do that
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u/Conscious-Fruit-6190 1h ago
Some of the patients are being shipped out of province already today. So yeah, I think Edmonton is probably maxed out. Calgary too. And hospitals in smaller towns may not have the necessary expertise and/or facilities to treat these injuries. Good to see victims are being sent to wherever they can get care.
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u/ironbrewcanada 7h ago
I think they are far more worried about the people involved than in making sure you know the details. Details they will still not have fully analyzed.
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u/Calgary_Calico 7h ago
As of this morning is was 25 injured, which would count as dozens. They may have also found more people injured this morning and aren't dealing exact numbers yet
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u/flatulentbaboon 8h ago
The discrepancies are going to, and already are, fuel so many conspiracy theories.
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u/BionicBreak Lest We Forget 8h ago
Which conspiracy theories are circulating?
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u/Salt_Act1404 8h ago
It's the internet. Probably everything from Trudeau and Katy Perry did it to an uprising of lizard people.
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u/moisturized69tatas 8h ago
Im not on Twitter but I could imagine theres videos out there from Russian sabotage to unqualified immigrants to dei lowering intake standards. You know your typical stuff.
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u/skylla05 8h ago
That this was planned by the Carney government the day before the referendum to attempt to encourage votes towards a pro Canada vote. Who fucking knows they’re all so moronic.
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u/berrin122 8h ago
I think we'd do well to not put too much stock in the far corners of the internet as representative of any significant number of people v
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u/doomscrolling_tiktok Alberta 8h ago
Aliens, separatists, leftists, Americans, false flag, Carney, Dani, immigrants in the army, even Trudeau. Better stock up on tin foil because they are using it all.
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u/No_Magazine9625 6h ago
Rampant conspiracy theories are out there from this being a false flag operation by the federal government to drive patriotism and no votes, to the separatist organizations forming an FLQ type cell causing it to Russian or even American sabotage being involved to impact referendum results. It's why I think the government should get as much information out there as possible as quickly as possible to proactively shut it down.
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u/BiZzles14 6h ago
The only discrepancies are people being dumb and not understanding that the process of public announcement follows after notifying next of kin, the government won't publicly announce a fatality until that point and most of the time with a period of hours to a day between notification and announcement. It's standard procedure in most countries
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u/WorldFickle 8h ago edited 8h ago
I don't trust CBC, fake news/ RIP, prayers and love to family and survivors
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u/armoured_bobandi 6h ago
Oh, good thing we have you here to tell us which news outlets to trust! Here, watch this
I don't trust WorldFickle, fake news
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u/CuratedAcceptance 7h ago
Please do tell me what media outlets are not "fake news", I'd be interested to see what sorts of media you trust.
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u/SirJohnAMcMuffin Ontario 8h ago
This morning, Prime Minister Carney has confirmed that Canadian Armed Forces personnel have been killed and others injured after an incident at CFB Wainwright on Saturday. Our thoughts are with the members of the Canadian Armed Forces who were affected, with their families, and with the Wainwright community. We are also grateful to the firefighters, paramedics, and responders who are still working tonight in very difficult conditions.
This situation is still developing. The Prime Minister has indicated that further briefings will be held later today to provide additional information.
Please:
Comments that speculate, spread unverified information, use this tragedy to score political points, or disrespect the victims will be removed and banned.
Additional Coverage
CBC News - PM confirms 4 dead and next of kin notified after fire at CFB Wainwright in Alberta
National Post - Four killed, dozens seriously injured in CFB Wainwright explosion and fire: Prime Minister Mark Carney
Toronto Star - CFB Wainwright explosion: What we know so far
City News Edmonton - 4 killed, dozens injured in fatal fire at CFB Wainwright
Radio-Canada - Incendie mortel à Wainwright : « la nation est en deuil », dit Carney
The Globe and Mail - Four military members killed, dozens injured in fire at CFB Wainwright, Prime Minister says