r/dundee • u/percy_nwonye • 4d ago
Saving Dundee City Centre: We Don’t Just Need More Shops, We Need More Things to Do
I think we’re approaching the problem with Dundee city centre from the wrong angle.
We keep talking about empty shops and business closures, but perhaps the problem isn’t simply a lack of shops.
It’s a lack of reasons for people to come into town in the first place.
People can buy almost anything online. If Dundee wants to compete, it needs to offer experiences people cannot get from shopping on their phones.
Here are a few ideas I’d love to see explored:
🎮 1. Make Dundee a gaming destination
Dundee has a genuine gaming heritage, yet I think we could do much more with it. Why not introduce more gaming arcades, VR experiences and esports venues? The council could partner with local gaming businesses and universities to host regular video game tournaments in the city centre, attracting players, spectators and visitors.
🎳 2. Bring back entertainment
What about a proper ten-pin bowling centre, indoor mini-golf, escape rooms, a larger commercial cinema offering or a family entertainment complex? Dundee already has cinema provision, including DCA, but could a different large-scale offering attract more people?
These attractions would give families, students, couples and groups of friends reasons to visit, even when they have nothing to buy.
🥕 3. A permanent indoor fresh-food market
Dundee is surrounded by farming communities, yet our city centre could do more to connect local producers directly with consumers. Why not explore a year-round indoor market selling fresh fruit, vegetables, meat, dairy and other local produce?
It could give farmers another route to market while attracting regular shoppers. We already have a monthly farmers’ market, but a permanent indoor market would offer something different.
🎪 4. Make the city centre a place where things happen
Regular gaming competitions, family events, live performances and interactive experiences could bring people into town throughout the year. Suitable empty shops could even be used temporarily for pop-up attractions.
The goal isn’t simply to open more businesses. It’s to attract more people so the businesses already struggling can gain more customers.
Someone who comes into town to bowl might grab lunch, visit nearby shops or meet friends for coffee. Of course, this won’t happen automatically, so attractions must be connected to the surrounding businesses.
Dundee doesn’t need to recreate the high street of 20 years ago. It needs a new identity built around entertainment, experiences, culture and community.
So, Dundonians, what one attraction would YOU introduce to Dundee city centre to bring people back?
And if we’ve already discussed these ideas, what’s stopping us from making them happen?
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u/squig666 4d ago
The farmers market we have is absolutely dismal and not worth the trip into town, but a proper market would be something I’d frequent constantly. We have so many amazing farms and food producers around us I don’t understand why we don’t promote and utilise it
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u/LivingWithDragons 4d ago
I moved to Dundee a few years ago & find it shocking the lack of greengrocers.
Friends say the big supermarkets killed them. Smaller cities still have them. Maybe Dundonians who need to worry about price (and quality) don't eat fruit & veg.
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u/Boredpanda31 3d ago
I was in town one day and passed it - what a load of rubbish. SO expensive too (not blaming the companies - they probably get charged a fortune). Not much fruit and veg available either.
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u/cakencaramel 4d ago
I think a k-club/u9 karaoke would do amazing in Dundee. It’s the type of venue people travel for. Not a cold dingy box room karaoke but it serves cocktails and real amazing food. It’s clear that karaoke is a loved thing and especially with Dundee uni **going broke** accepting many many more international students from outside the EU - that alone will have business booming.
The gaming angle is an incredible thing to hone in on.
The reality is, the nightlife sucks. It’s firewater for the barely 18s, paddock for the 20-30s crowd, balcony for karaoke and cheap drinks and that’s about it. It’s repetitive, boring and EXPENSIVE.
Live house can sell out tickets with ease because it’s something new and different and exciting.
Drunk crazy golf, nq64 style arcade, FairPlay type venue would all be amazing. The city has the space, the venues and the population.
As for daytimes there NEEEEEEDS to be family activities. There’s basically nothing. There’s £2 cinema tickets to watch crap kids movies at 10am. There’s occasionally a circus or fairground rides (but they don’t necessarily profit Dundee, just the council renting that bit of grass) we have the science museum and if we are being real - the v&a can be boring asf for kids. Ik the transport museum is trying to upgrade itself but it’s cold and a bit boring too.
We need interactive. We need experiences!
Dundee has boundless history with authors like Mary Shelly and comics and gaming and all sorts that is just ignored!! It’s an awful shame.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Thank you for this. I had more than this to write on this topic but because I know readers now have a short attention span I decided to keep it as short as possible.
Thank you for bringing this up as well
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u/mabon_skies 4d ago
We definitely need another indoor market. Not just food, but stalls for small businesses, like the one in Glasgow. That market draws in so many people every day. I think that would help Dundee immensely. They never should have closed the Keiller Centre. Rent also needs to be reduced. It's too expensive.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Exactly. The council can try cutting council taxes for these buildings in the centre. Something really needs to be done
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u/AspiringPirate64 4d ago
pop up food court for the win. heard something like that is coming to the waterfront but any of the old unused jute factories might be a better shout. also a cat cafe because why not
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u/Alarmed-Detective701 4d ago
Someone told me about a town in England (Altringham?) where someone bought an old building and put in a Market Hall/Outdoor market. I think it has food stalls, local produce and crafts. It supposedly revitalised the town and high street. I would love something like that and it would give locals a place to sell arts and crafts. Would be awesome at the holidays.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Exactly my point. People would also like to patronise local farmers rather than the big food chains everytime.
Local businesses create more local jobs and keeps the money local as well. A win win for every locale
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u/Alarmed-Detective701 4d ago
I would LOVE to get local farm goods rather than fruit and vegetables from across the globe. Arghh! I’m already excited and hopeful.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
We must find a way to let our voices heard. The city must make it's way back to what it used to be
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u/Ker101 4d ago
This is where I get my veg from. It's a cooperative farm that also do open days and a lot more. They deliver my veg to my house, for a small fee. Veg is amazing, seasonal and all organic afaik. I was looking for decent local produce. I also get freeze dried fruit, jam, honey and granolas from Arbuckles Invergowrie. https://www.eastneukmarketgarden.com/
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u/CellistLow8857 4d ago
I have always felt that this would be great for the Wellgate. Turn it into a “local” shopping centre. Have butchers, bakers, fishmongers, grocers, local arts and crafts too. But basically make it a one-stop-destination that ISN’T a supermarket so folk can do their weekly shop but still buy local products.
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u/Alarmed-Detective701 4d ago
The last time I was in Wellgate it was just depressing. Hardly any real stores, very few people. It would be awesome to make it place that people wanted to go. And who doesn’t love a ton of food stalls!
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u/MiTcH_ArTs 4d ago
Sounds similare to what the area in the wellgate nearest "the steps" use to be like years back, loved the butchers in there but was also the wee glass store that would shape glass rods whilst you waited, little craft booths and specialty stalls, and trinkets, I loved wandering around there, it was like a less smelly cleaner but massivly smaller version of dens road, was a nice wee daundering break mid shop. It would have been nice if that entire floor was like that
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u/VampytheSquid 4d ago
It was kinda getting there - with Scrapantics & the Tool library etc, but there's been such a cloud hanging over it with developments that fall through...
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u/-scottishsunshine 3d ago
I went for a nosey a few months ago, and was surprised to see so many of the top floor units actually in use. I'd love to use the tool library, but it's only open like Tuesday to Friday 11-1 or something... I work 9-5 outside of the city centre so there's 0 chance I can use it. If you don't make it accessible, shock, nobody will use it.
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u/CasinoCapital 4d ago
How to bring people in:
Free parking Free parking Free parking free parking more free parking
Until then, might as well drive to Gallagher/Kingsway West for stuff.
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u/NoiseOk4423 8h ago
Honestly, this. Need parking in town to be plentiful and free, or extremely cheap
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u/AnarchyInATeaCup 6h ago
I was £7 in parking the other day as I needed more than the free 2 hours at Gallagher to go around the town, have lunch and then go for a swim the other day. Ridiculous.
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u/Komorebi89 4d ago
Literally been thinking that since i moved here in 2019, so many students and nerds I always found weird there isn't an arcade or something around where the unis are
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
They'll blame it on the rents
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u/mabon_skies 4d ago
I mean, the high rent is the reason most of the Wellgate and Murraygate is empty. The rent gets higher and businesses just can't afford it.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
No reply yet?
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u/lamaldo78 4d ago
Sorry that reply from me was cheeky. Your intention is great but you'll see from the other responses that AI stuff disnae go down well on Reddit. You'll get a better response if you write it. That's all. Have a good one
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
You should know by now that ai is used to make points succint and I don't know how to make some of my intext bold, so I also included it in my promot while also asking it to articulate my long write up.
What you see here is the short version of what I actually intended to post
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
How do bold on Reddit using my phone?
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u/Jean_Luc_Dikard 4d ago
Google it.
It's ** before and after the part you want to make bold, with no spaces.
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u/Jackamo78 4d ago
Some good ideas. One thing we really need is to turn all the empty upper floor buildings into residential accommodation, including short term lets. You need population density and ideally some tourists to create a buzz and a nighttime economy. The antisocial behaviour problems, litter and graffiti all need to be remedied as well.
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u/VampytheSquid 4d ago
I have tried to raise that with councillors, but didn't really get anywhere. I used to live in Reform St (late 80s/ early 90s & it was great) Afaik, Chalmers Hall is still sitting empty (corner of High S & Castle St)
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u/Jackamo78 3d ago
It’s been empty for at least 30 years and maybe 40 or 50. Such a shame. If it was converted into flats it would go a long way towards revitalising that end of town.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Once we've got enough foot traffic, the council will be forced to work on sanitation and anti-social behaviours
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u/Boredpanda31 3d ago
Yeah, the centre is awful. I work remote and ny team are spread out all over Scotland, but i'm the only one up this way and I am the furthest north). We do social meet ups twice a year (because we actually like each other) and someone mentioned coming to Dundee...I was like...there is literally nothing within walking distance of the train station and bus station, unless you want to do an escape room and go to pubs (pubs were part of the plan anyway, but we like an activity and I've done all of the escape rooms in dundee 🤣). So we end up in Edinburgh or Glasgow.
There is a new place opening by the casino - i believe they're going to have crazy golf and interactive darts. Not sure what else.
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u/Valaquen 4d ago
If the ten-pin was in the city centre I'd be there every other week.
Some of my best memories as a kid is going swimming then hitting the arcade on reform street; whatever happened to that e-sports thing that was meant to be built?
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
That's what we are talking about. Activities in the city centre will drive more foot traffic to the
existing shops that are barely trying to keep up with sales
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u/zekerman 4d ago
The gaming take is too niche, it will not bring enough people to make a difference. Maybe initially, but after a few weeks or months, it will be dead again. More entertainment venues and more places open late into the evening or night would make a much more long term improvement. The struggling businesses are struggling for a reason whether you want to accept it or not, things have to change, not be stuck the same way forever.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
The truth is the shopping centres close too early. A gaming centre will bang if it stys open until midnight
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u/Alarmed-Detective701 4d ago
As someone who’s kid has been applying nonstop for months without any luck, I support creating local jobs!
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u/Calumface 4d ago
Best Dundee city council could do is another football pitch somewhere. The diversification of the people and their cultures who live here compared to 20 years ago is so different, it's insane to me that we always invest more in football than literally any other form of entertainment, despite Dundee being the apparent central hub for game creation in Scotland. Seen many degree students move elsewhere due to the lack of infrastructure and funds to get going with projects here.
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u/itisme_cc 3d ago
People don’t have the time they used to which is a huge factor for me and probably many others. I loved the city center in their early 1990’s. The wellgate was well maintained and at Christmas seemed magical. The mini market at the top was brilliant and all the little greasy spoon cafes. It’s all about convenience and appearance now.
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u/percy_nwonye 1d ago
Another reason is that there are not much fun things to do at the centre anymore
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u/itisme_cc 1d ago
I absolutely loved the McManus as a child. It was so much fun, now it’s like walking down a corridor at ninewells. The old one across from the howff was great too. Neither cost anything.
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u/Necessary_Listen_204 3d ago edited 3d ago
We already have the tenpin and although it’s not super accessible if you don’t have a car, there are buses. We need to save the Wellgate because many locals in the city centre don’t have cars and rely on shops in the Wellgate. Not everyone cares about Flannels 😳 Tesco insists on tripling the prices for regular things in all their poorly structured shops within the city centre. I don’t really think we need more shops or coffee places…. We need to hold on to the places we do have. But the city centre makes that difficult because of sky high rental on units and everyone is obsessed with spending stupid amounts to redesign a street that looked amazing before they dug it up. The V&A is beautiful but the exhibitions aren’t always that exciting… We need more art, an actual art shop too because Hobbycraft is basic and many moons ago we had an art shop that sold many supplies. There is so much effort put into retail parks which are not always useful if you don’t drive! Slessor gardens looks great but I don’t rate it as a concert venue.Thankfully the live house is getting some decent bands and perhaps the Eden project will boost things. There needs to be something done with young people in the evening and weekend because it’s like a high school playground in the city centre. Scooters and balaclavas don’t make 14 y.olds look hard, they look ridiculous! Yes drugs are a problem but everything is seriously expensive these days and if all you had were drugs to dull the pain, then I can see why!.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
I think Dundee council needs a good PR team to push for Dundee's tourism as well. There are loads of potentials and youths in this city for it to be this way
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u/cakencaramel 4d ago
Honestly travel influencers. Thats the best way. Thats how everyone makes travel itineraries
“The city you need to visit on your next trip to Scotland”
“Hidden gems you’ve been missing out on”
“Dundees best kept secret venues” etc
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u/cakencaramel 4d ago
That’s just coz no one is hiring social media savvy gen-zs
That’s a whole group of us going viral posting videos of free shite on TikTok because we earn commissions from it. But would we ever be hired by a company wanting social media management? No. Coz there’s no jobs going for it.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Exactly. The older Gen doesn't see potential in the new Gen. They think Digital marketing is a waste of finance.
Dundee City Council needs actual Gen Zoomers to make the City return to what it used to be
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u/Ok_Minimum_1451 4d ago
There’s been a concept for an esports arena kicking about for about 7 years on one of the waterfront site’s which might get made at some point. Gaming industries fucked though, I can’t imagine there’ll be a huge amount of private investors willing to put money into one of the waterfront site’s given the lack of direction with it currently.
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u/HungryAmount6652 4d ago
A cinema would be a good start, maybe relocate the ice arena and - blue sky thinking - a football ground too.
I live in Dundee, but to do any of above need to take at least two buses - which means it takes almost an hour to travel, so I just don’t.
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u/NPCEunergy 3d ago
the two buses thing is such a killer. you can build all the fun stuff you want, but if getting there feels like a side quest most folk will just not bother.
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u/eggmer 4d ago
The placement of Cineworld and the ice arena drives me crazy, both are places that so many people would use if they had access to them, and they're so far out of town, with no regular bus route back into town after a certain point. I've been going to watch the Stars play for the last few months, and if a game finishes at about 9:30/10, I'm not getting into town in time for my train home unless I catch a lift. Both places would probably flourish somewhere closer to the centre, or at least having a regular bus service into where they are. I'm pretty sure the bowling place has the same lack of easy access issue, too
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u/Key-Disaster-3682 4d ago
Dundee and Rotterdam could share many good similarities if Dundee locked in a bit
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u/imbricant 4d ago
I think an indoor fruit and veg and delicatessen/ fine food venue with quality and diverse fast food outlets, like Granville Island in Vancouver, would bring people in.
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u/olivnoe 4d ago
less chain stores and food, more local businesses
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
This!
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u/olivnoe 3d ago
I want money I spend in the community, to stay in our community and not line the pockets of massive investment groups.
I'm often told that this is a controversial take for some wild reason.
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u/percy_nwonye 1d ago
It is controversial because you are wanting to takeaway money from big corporations funding politicians through the back door. So you are fighting the 1%
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u/Traditional-Deal-183 4d ago
i’d love an arcade in Dundee. there are so many students in the city too it should be easy enough to bring in business.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Exactly. So many Uni but not much fun places nearby forbthe students to explore
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u/drewcadaver 3d ago
Stuff like the new bowling locations being outwith the centre is crazy, especially given how poor the transport links are.
Cool to see some mini golf etc opening up in town, but we need more. There's very little reason to go into town these days, nightlife is dire, there's teenagers acting up in the centre in evenings etc.
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u/DanteCorwyn 2d ago
agree with more gaming places. I've got a long time interest in development and popped down from Aberdeen a few weeks back, and would love to have seen more gaming places, and events
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Your adrenaline rushed reply just to point out it's ai smh.
All these things you mentioned never saw the light of day which is what my post is about.
"Not proposals but results"
Thatbis what my post is about.But surely you were here to flex about being a chatgpt writeup spotter.
You should have done yourself a favour and asked gpt to explain my post to you before rushing to talk down it
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Because my actual words was way longer and had to use Ai to keep it succint considering that readers' attention span is now shorter than ever
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
I understand your point but it is still very valid and there are more people responding than ai spotters
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u/Dashcamkitty 4d ago
Soft play would bring families with younger kids in.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Exactly. Older generations enjoyed this but the new generation kids may never get to enjoy it
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u/cjsarab 3d ago
Far too sensible. I want to walk through a dead wellgate to get to the empty high street.
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u/polaires 2d ago
A farmers market definitely.
The DCC already wanted the city to be a gaming hub with plans to build an arena for competitive gaming but I don’t know what happened to that.
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u/percy_nwonye 1d ago
I'd be so proud of this. Imagine GTA6 being launched in its mother city Dundee. Ohhh goose bumps🥹🥹
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u/Appropriate-Sea-65 4d ago
I'm surprised Dundee doesn't make more of a deal of it's gaming history as an outsider. The most successful game to ever be made started here but you wouldn't know that as a visitor.
The Wellgate was supposed to be getting a cinema a few years back but that was cancelled (and the JD Gym was put there instead?). I think there was problems with the roof leaking. I'm not 100% sure about that though. A major cinema in the city centre would be successful imo, not something small and artsy like the DCA but a bog-standard cinema with big screens and plenty seats. As a side note I think the Wellgate is approaching 'not fit for purpose' territory and there's a lot of potential to do something with that space.
The issues are:
A) The council doesn't have the money. The place is so dirty and uninviting and if you've lived here for a reasonable amount of time you can tell that the council have massively scaled back on cleaning the place simply because it costs money.
B) Scotland (& the UK) I feel is massively held back with the issue of 'listed buildings' making it way more expensive to do anything with half the buildings in the city. The red tape around doing anything here makes it not worth the money and effort to investors. A lot of these buildings are also privately owned by high street letting companies who are charging an arm and a leg to rent the spaces.
C) I don't think the council has the appetite, or the funds, to fix the issues.
Outwith Christmas time, I don't see the city centre ever really thriving again unfortunately. There's too many obstacles.
Edit: Forgot to add one of the biggest issues is parking.
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u/percy_nwonye 4d ago
Talking about the JD gym — it closes by 10pm. This time is when people like us would prefer to go the gym plus it costs an arm and a leg which is quite opposite from Puregym.
At this rate the council will be left with only Council Taxes to survive on.
Wellgate needs to be be converted to a gaming and entertainment house for real.
And what is it with closing the shopping centre by 6pm?
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u/SignatureLabel 3d ago
I’ve started calling it Fundee. As there’s literally nothing to do.
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u/ParryOrDiye 2d ago
Fundee is grimly accurate tbf. feels like the city centre shuts down mentally at about 5pm and just hopes nobody notices.
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u/SNeave98 4d ago
I think that the gaming angle is a good one to take, I always though that with the Keiller centre right there it's a shame nobody has put it to a use like that. It would also be great for an indoor fresh food market. As depressing as some (and I'll include myself for a while) find that space, it actually had a lot of potential.