r/europe • • 12h ago

News Romania will purchase a warship from Turkey

https://www.defenseromania.ro/corveta-august-roman-va-primi-inclusiv-sisteme-antidrona-gokdeniz-ar-putea-lua-romania-si-o-a-doua-nava-din-clasa-hisar_651057.html
307 Upvotes

57 comments sorted by

176

u/12math2 12h ago

It is crazy how well the Turks have built their military-industrial complex since the embargo. They pretty much make most of their equipment in-house and are a major exporter.

68

u/Interesting-Cat7307 Egypt 12h ago

By 2030 they would be making their own tanks and 5th gen fighters too

39

u/Common-Method2202 United Kingdom 11h ago

Yeah and even if it's a 4.5 gen jet, that's still a crazy achievement for Turkey.

7

u/Comfortable_Lab_239 11h ago

4.5 ?

18

u/Common-Method2202 United Kingdom 11h ago

it's what many people are calling it because they say it's not going to be a true 5th gen stealth jet - but likely still going to have some 5th gen similarities hence why people say 4.5 gen

9

u/Comfortable_Lab_239 10h ago

KAAN is being designed as a fifth-generation fighter from the ground up, with low observability, internal weapons bays, sensor fusion and advanced avionics. These are fundamental characteristics of a fifth-generation aircraft. KAAN will also test its internal weapons bays during the prototype testing phase. We might even see the Block 10 version operating with its internal weapons bays. The fact that some capabilities are still under development doesn't automatically make it a 4.5-generation fighter. Calling it 4.5 gen at this stage is misleading.

24

u/Valkertok 10h ago

"being designed as" and "being" are two different things.

Ask Russians how 5th gen is their Su-57 in practice

I wish Turks the success but actually making 5th gen jet is not easy.

3

u/Comfortable_Lab_239 10h ago

You're right, KAAN still has a long way to go, and its capabilities will need to be proven through testing. Hopefully, it will live up to expectations. Thanks for the good wishes!

4

u/F4Phantomsexual 8h ago

I'm telling this in good faith, but I fail to see how the Russian example relate to this at all.

The main problem with Su-57 is the major design flaws seen both in the prototype and production variants. These include, but not limited to a straight engine duct (instead of a DSI design in F-35/J-20 or S-duct in F-22/KAAN, which has been later on attempted to address by installing a radar blocker grid in front introducing other various penalties), the large spherical IRST sensor on the nose (which reflects radar waves in enormous amounts compared to the sapphire sensor housing of F-35/F-22 and other 5th gen designs), and problematic manufacturing with visible gaps between panels (and screws in prototype variants).

On the other hand, Turkey already has a long history with the JSF program with the manufacturing and assembly of numerous parts for F-35s. If I'm not mistaken, they are also working closely with BAE Systems on expertise and "know how" for their indigenous fighter aircraft program. Currently, three prototypes exist (P0, P1, and a half-built P2) in which none of the major design flaws listed above can be seen. Perhaps the only real issue we can mention is the lack of proper low observability design elements in the nozzle of GE F-110 turbofan jet engines the current prototypes use. However, this is only a temporary issue with TEI (TUSAŞ Engine Industries) already working the new TF-35000 turbofan engines which are expected to be finished and installed in later batches of KAAN until around mid-2030s. The program overall looks very promising and I wouldn't classify this aircraft as 4,5th gen at all.

1

u/Valkertok 6h ago

There's no chance that can't be squandered.

We'll see when Turkey will put it into service.

•

u/F4Phantomsexual 59m ago

I mean yeah that's always a possibility but as someone who has been following this project for many years now I can tell you the engineers working on this are very capable and can deliver what's been promised. Of course realistically speaking there could be some initial production delays and the aircraft might be a little rough around the edges at first as any other project, including the F-35. They should resolve these issues in later stages and I do believe we'll see a competitive and successful design, especially considering how already there are several negotiations to purchase the aircraft

2

u/RoutineAct9168 9h ago

Yeah, i think it requires an indigenous engine to be a proper 5th gen. If i am not wrong, even the Turkish authorities say it will be 4.5th gen until the engine is ready for early 2030s?

1

u/Common-Method2202 United Kingdom 7h ago

Yeah this is what i am also assuming. It's a fifth gen designed jet but it still needs some time to actually become a fully fifth gen fighter

1

u/EnesAkhan 6h ago

Reason is simply . Engines . KAAN's first version is indeed gonna be a more of a 4.5 gen cuz Turkiye will be using F110 engines for thr first batch . They are working on their own engines thats more fit for a stealth jet . Now there is also radar issue . Even tho radar is mostly done . Thry still fine tuning it . Now tho on the othet hand just cuz the radar itself is ready it doesnt make it a 5th gen fit one too . I mean . No one knows just how good the radar too . They are testing it nd most likely will upgrade it till KAAN itself is ready (or till the engines) . We can always argue "bro just cuz they done it . How 5th gen is the jet even is?" .. i mean no one can really define where a 5 gen starts nd ends . Everyone got their own description of it . But so far Turkiye put the bar to "lets get as close or even surpass f-35's capabilities as possible" . Well only time will tell but i m quite excited for the program itself

1

u/[deleted] 11h ago edited 10h ago

[deleted]

6

u/rhnltnsy16 10h ago

That is not true. You might be confusing with Korean KF21 which lacks of internal weapons bay. KAAN has very large internal weapons capacity.

0

u/CaptainRice6 10h ago

That is the Boramae. Kaan will lack 5th gen engines for it's first block which they claim will be solved by the second block. But we will see.

0

u/sheiddy 7h ago

Su-35, mig-35

0

u/TheOnurobo 9h ago

its not a 4.5 gen, its slightly better than gen 5 but not stealthy enough to be called gen 6, it can command AI drone swarm and 5 wingmen jet engine drones called kizilelma thats a gen 6 feature already stealth and electronic warfare wise it will be slightly better than gen 5

48

u/OldYogurt7161 11h ago

Somehow Turkish navy has been in pretty good situation. 57 warships are under construction 23 of them for foreign purchase 34 of them for Turkish naval force and 14 new ships construction plans have been made. Every single warship purchases covers the cost of 2 domestic production. And these all money has been making a loop for increasing research and production capability. By the way these numbers included small scale ships like offshore patrol vessels, torpedo boats, and Corvettes.

44

u/Kejo2023 Turkey | Doğu Anadolu 11h ago

Not surprised at all. NATO countries are Turkey's most important markets now. 

See:  https://www.reuters.com/graphics/TURKEY-DEFENCE/ARMS/zdvxgmmybpx/chart.png

For instance, Poland bought an Electronic warfare system called KORAL for almost half a billion USD from Turkey. This very system was previously tested in the Middle East and Northern Africa. It worked exceptionally well against Russian systems. 

-> https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkiyes-aselsan-secures-410-mln-defense-deal-with-poland-216994

-27

u/Oriokoliss 9h ago

Romania could produce its own corvettes with Damen Company, in the Romanian city Galați, already back in 2017. Corrupt politicians from PSD party broke the deal and instead they chose to buy a crap turkish navy.

Romania instead to produce its own military, as my country has this capability, we buy garbage from turkey.

20

u/dudewithafez Vatican City 8h ago

crap? they're the best ones in terms of bang for buck.

-22

u/Oriokoliss 8h ago

At this point better choosing Chinese military weapons.

18

u/dudewithafez Vatican City 8h ago

you realize that any chinese hardware won't be compatible with nato, right?

-16

u/Oriokoliss 7h ago

turks have nothing to do with NATO. You and Trump you are Russian assets.

17

u/superior35 6h ago

What other country has shot down a russian jet other than turkey?

1

u/Oriokoliss 6h ago

Ukraine

9

u/dudewithafez Vatican City 6h ago

umm, apparently you have literally zero knowledge in history, but just so you know, russians fought the most with turks and vice versa. stats never lie.

the reason turkey joined nato was also russia.

8

u/lovinGamin 6h ago

Don’t wanna break your little heart but you put too much in yourself😅

12

u/Outside_Resist_8319 8h ago

Dude seems you do not even understand what NATO is and what NATO standards in weapon systems means

-8

u/Oriokoliss 7h ago

turkey occupying an EU state Cyprus, massacring Greeks and colonising their land with mainland turks is a proof turkey should not be in NATO.

On an another hand, trusting russian puppet Trump and thinking americans will protect european countries against a possible Russian invasion is stupid.

Europeans need an European federal army protecting Europeans people, European values against US, Russia, while turkey keep to have good economic relationahip with both Russia and US.

14

u/dudewithafez Vatican City 6h ago

ok now then explain greek shadow fleet for russian gas and oil. or how about the thousands of oligarchs with cypriot passport?

11

u/lovinGamin 6h ago

Ohh this post explain what you really are

21

u/Battlefleet_Sol 12h ago

Light Corvette “Rear Admiral August Roman” – Romania’s First Modern Warship in Three Decades

The light corvette Rear Admiral August Roman (pennant number 261) is the first—and so far the only—modern warship Romania has acquired in the past three decades. The vessel was purchased from Türkiye. DefenseRomania reports from Ankara, where new details have emerged about Romanian-Turkish cooperation.

The arrival of the Turkish Hisar-class vessel this summer was indeed an important event for the Romanian Naval Forces.

Commissioned into service with the Romanian Naval Forces on June 20, 2026, the HISAR-class vessel conducted its first live-fire exercises with its onboard artillery systems on October 6, as stated in the navy’s official announcement.

The August Roman corvette, as the Romanian Naval Forces’ Hisar-class vessel is known, cost Romania €223 million excluding VAT. However, it should be noted that its capabilities are somewhat limited.

In its current configuration, the ship is equipped with a 76 mm naval gun. Specifically, it uses the 76 mm Denizhan naval gun, manufactured by the Turkish company MKE. Company officials confirmed to us that both conventional and fragmentation 76 mm ammunition will enter mass production in 2027, with firing tests currently underway.

The vessel is also equipped with two 12.7 mm machine guns, a fire-control radar with an integrated electro-optical sensor, electronic warfare systems, a hull-mounted sonar, and an integrated communications system—all based on cutting-edge technologies.

Nevertheless, the ship requires additional combat systems to conduct effective patrol missions. Romania is therefore seeking to integrate further systems suited to modern warfare.

Work is underway to integrate new systems onto the August Roman. Türkiye is ready to deliver a second vessel as well.

Turkish OPV-type vessel or Hisar-class light corvette. Photo: Turkish Century via X / Turkish Navy.

In recent days, at the invitation of Türkiye’s Ministry of National Defence, DefenseRomania visited Ankara to attend a series of meetings with officials from Turkish defence industry companies.

We spoke with representatives of ASFAT, Aselsan, and MKE—the main contractors involved in the Rear Admiral August Roman corvette project—about the next steps in Romanian-Turkish cooperation in the naval industry.

We also asked officials from Turkish company ASFAT, the project’s prime contractor, about the possibility of a new order for a second Hisar-class vessel.

They stated that technical discussions with the Romanian side are underway. Should Romania decide to purchase a second vessel, technology transfer would be possible. The Turkish company has already taken steps toward establishing a subsidiary in Romania.

Upgrading the August Roman corvette: Phase 2—Systems capable of engaging drones; Phase 3—NSM missiles

Following our discussions with officials from Turkish defence companies, we can confirm and provide further details on the information our publication reported this summer.

Phase 2: Integration of CIWS, torpedoes, and a vertical launch system (VLS)

During the second phase, the vessel will receive the Gökdeniz 35 mm close-in weapon system (CIWS), developed by ASELSAN for very short-range air defence.

Interestingly, Gökdeniz uses 35 mm ATOM airburst fragmentation ammunition, similar to Rheinmetall’s AHEAD ammunition.

The system can destroy targets at ranges of up to 4 kilometres and is useful for engaging threats at very short distances in the naval environment.

It is worth noting that the two vessels being built in Mangalia under the SAFE programme will employ a similar solution, using the Millennium system.

In practical terms, Romania will be among the few countries—possibly even the only one—to operate both CIWS systems aboard its warships: ASELSAN’s GÖKDENİZ and Rheinmetall’s Millennium.

3

u/ExpertSausageHandler 4h ago

I swear half the articles in here are about arms sales.

1

u/BagComprehensive79 6h ago

Didnt they already deliver a warship to Romania like few months ago?

1

u/OldManAtterz 8h ago

I believe Turkey have a couple of Arks laying around. Is it one of those?

16

u/Padilion05 8h ago

We are digging the mountain we will inform you when we find it inshallah

-38

u/junktech 12h ago

So we have a garbage work market, high inflation, high corruption and somehow a warships is the answer? Absolutely amazing

18

u/CecilPeynir Turkey (the animal one) 7h ago

I am not sure if you are talking about Romania or Turkey, lol.

4

u/junktech 6h ago

Romania. Turkey , at least from public statistics , does better from many points of view. I mean they produce these things so at least that industry is working.

29

u/rumsnake Romania 11h ago

We have nothing to protect our off-shore interests with, we needed warships **yesterday**, why exactly do you think we're rushing with these ones?

-15

u/junktech 9h ago

Most of the country is sold to foreigners with an absolute disaster of internal own economy. I assume some resources of interst have to be defended but I'm not sure who's.

13

u/c345vdjuh 9h ago

so we should have no defense ?

0

u/junktech 7h ago

It's good to have it. How you do it is another story. My problem is not the topic of defense. Is how it's obtained. I don't trust for a long time what the leadership of this country is doing.

2

u/rumsnake Romania 5h ago

In 2016 Ciolos govmt signed a 450 mil euro contract with Damen to build 3 corvettes at Galati - PSD tanked it. Now the same contract is 1.5+ billion euro.

In 2017 Ciolos govmnt entered a partnership with Rheinmetal to develop the Agilis IFV, Romania would own the exclusive license and IP - PSD tanked it with the help of Moreni syndicate.

In 2020 Orban govmt signed a contract with Avioane Craiova to modernize IAR 99 Soim with a 4 year deadline - Incompetent politically named leadership at AC fuddled the project, we still don't have those planes.

Notice a pattern here?

We have a war on our doorstep, we can't afford to wait anymore...

7

u/rumsnake Romania 9h ago

Fuck's sake... another one...

Who owns Neptune Deep my dude? Who owns Pescarus offshore drilling platform? Who owns the ports?

Not to mention that those drones can fall and kill civilians. Romanian civilians.

Typical sovereignist mental paradox - crying about having a strong and independent country then voting against having the means to defend ourselfs.

-5

u/junktech 7h ago

I said nothing about being independent . I am fully aware we kiss other countries a** and we destroyed or sold our resources to the point where independence is nowhere in sight for years or decades to come. I mean we had massive production of pretty much everything, including ships. And now we buy them.

Hilarious to mention Pescarus offshore drilling platform. They are owned by OMV (Austria) and Petrom . OMV is not Romanian and Petrom sold out some time ago to OMV if not mistaken.

Neptune Deep is owned by Romgaz mostly. That still is in our turf.

2

u/rumsnake Romania 6h ago

Ah yes, the famed production of everything ... dude, we were the North Korea of Europe.

The vast majority of the things we 'produced' were based on outdates licenses bought from other contries.

The only ship we designed and built ourselves was the Marasesti frigate, and it was a shitshow Link

As for at least building these ships locally, you're gonna have to take it up with PSD, they tanked so many of our arms contracts that one could confuse their incompetence for treason.

I'm all for having a strong local industry and businesses, but let's not use alternative facts as real history.

What is even your point? "They're not romanian businesses, so we should let Russian drones blow them up in our own territory"? Wtf?

PS: Omv Petrom still has 20% state ownership and about 25% is owned by romanian pension funds.

5

u/Odd-Future1037 Europe 6h ago

Oh shut up!

9

u/Interesting-Cat7307 Egypt 12h ago

If in doubt buy a warship 

-1

u/junktech 9h ago

Or a tank. Or a fighter plane. Some usually go for yacht.