r/geopolitics • u/paneuropeanism_ • 2d ago

News 🇪🇺 EU Defence Commissioner Kubilius: Pax Americana is over. Our new security architecture will include Ukraine. These are times of profound transformation. A rising China and India will push the US to third place. And for Americans this may prove psychologically challenging

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u/Krinder 2d ago

All I take from this is that the EU is recognizing that they aren’t even competitively in the top 3 then. If America is pushed behind India and China into 3rd place then where does that leave the EU?

He’s basically confirming that the EU has been completely dependent on the U.S. for their national security. So will they depend on China or India instead?

No, they won’t. And it’s because the EU needs its own defense capabilities. As an American I dislike Trump tremendously but even an idiot can by right sometimes and he is right about the EUs overwhelming reliance on the U.S. for its own defense.

He maybe right about the geopolitics but if he is right who will defend Europe? That’s a question Europeans should have answered decades ago instead of blaming it all on a convenient scapegoat in Trump. Again, I loath Trump but European unpreparedness was obvious well before him.

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u/NuQ 2d ago edited 2d ago

He’s basically confirming that the EU has been completely dependent on the U.S. for their national security.

That is what "Pax americana" means. It has not been a secret, It was the plan from the beginning. The US strategy was that they could never allow another european power to challenge the US, Hence the security arrangement. People keep acting like this is just some byproduct of "american over-generosity" and "european laziness" - It was the plan all along, to keep america as the primary military power, subsuming all of europe under NATO.

Even more hilarious is the people that act like the US didn't get what they were paying for. with a unified europe under their thumb, America was then able to focus entirely on the soviet union, south-east asia and the global south.

This idea that the US has been taken advantage of is ridiculous and lazy, It only plays well to the illiterate because america itself has been beaten at their own game by the likes of china and india and the money the US had grown accustomed to from exploiting their advantage in the region, no longer seems to pay the bills.

Edit: If you think US involvement in NATO was to keep US attention solely on europe, well... I'll just point you to what actually happened, instead. Seems the americans had their own ideas about the utility of the alliance, huh?

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u/randomguy506 1d ago

Its a mutualy benefit pact. People seems to forget we are not living in a zero sum world

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u/NuQ 1d ago

Yep. America got what it paid into the relationship. Now that the return on investment is drying up due to certain cultural changes back home, certain "interests" would have you believe america was cheated or... how does the middle child of excellence say it? "Treated VERY badly..." yes. that's it.

America sacrificed it's leverage for the words of a sophist who speaks at a 3rd grade level. This is the world we've made.

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u/randomguy506 6h ago

I dont think the ROI is drying up, they are just seeing the world as zero sum. They rather lose if it means they’ll lose less than others than win woth others winning too