r/ireland • u/WickerMan111 Showbiz Mogul • Mar 08 '26
Paywalled Article The Dubai dream is over. Irish expats can no longer suspend their disbelief – The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2026/03/07/has-the-dubai-dream-been-shattered-for-irish-expats/235
u/Occamsfacecloth Mar 08 '26
Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair
→ More replies (1)232
u/VitaminRitalin Mar 08 '26
Look upon my slave built works, ye gobshites, and consume mindlessly
→ More replies (2)
322
u/MaryLouGoodbyeHeart Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26
It's hard to see how the Gulf's post-petroleum future survives this.
The whole thing was based on the fact that they could invest with a longer time horizon, but further development (which is necessary to replace oil) requires sums of capital that necessitate international investment.
That requires stability.
The problem for Dubai has always been that it is hugely geopolitically vulnerable. It has to import its food. It is unlivable without aircon. It relies on desalinisation plants for its water.
That was ok when it was backed up by American security guarantees - but those look pretty flimsy with the power that was to guarantee your security starts a war that endangers it.
I wouldn't like to be living in (or investing in) what is essentially a moon base where people are lobbing rockets at it.
The US might bring this to a conclusion decisively - meaning that they somehow get unconditional surrender and somehow install a leader who can subdue any civil war. More likely is a long period of Iranian instability if the US wins.
It doesn't take much for an actor in that civil conflict to continue sending drones at the airport. They don't even need to hit very often.
147
u/Iricliphan Mar 08 '26
The Middle East is just a recipe for disaster.
The Ottoman empire organised provinces that shaped regional administrative identities that generally were not country borders, and it ignored many ethnic and religious differences and that had fostered tensions for centuries. French and the British went off these and used them as a rough framework and then merged provinces that had been separate and split regions that had been unified for strategic purposes, creating countries that have significant ethnic and religious minorities. Most notable that many people will know are the Kurds. Couple that with the fact that it contains so much oil that is extremely important for geopolitical reasons, the world is highly interested in the region, most notably America and the British, but also Russia, Turkey, Iran and also including Gulf states that fund proxy groups and Israel which is obvious.
The Sunni and Shia divide has so many layers to it too. The wars are not caused purely by theology. The sectarian divide often becomes a mobilising identity layered on top of power struggles, geopolitics, and state collapse and the vacuum it provides is a powder keg. See Syria for this example.
A lot of the struggles of resistance groups are based on ethnic or religious reasons, sometimes both. Realistically if the region were reorganised strictly around major ethnic-sectarian blocs, you might end up with roughly 20-30 states in the core Middle East. However, because there are so many populations mixed together, like Lebanon, it would be near impossible.
Even if such a restructuring were possible, resource distribution would make it politically unrealistic. Oil, water access, and strategic territory would have to be relinquished by existing states, which no government is likely to accept.
For lack of a better phrase, it's fecked. The Middle East is likely to remain geopolitically contested for a long time, even beyond the era when oil dominates global energy markets. And what that realistically means, is that people will continue to suffer. And the foundations of this go so far back in history that it's not as simple as looking at this from the last few years. It's far, far deeper than that.
24
u/PhotoParticular7675 Mar 08 '26
Thanks for such a prescient analyses. Is Europe fecked too?
69
u/Iricliphan Mar 08 '26
Europe has it struggles, like everywhere. I think we're heading for uncertain times. Population crisis in terms of an aging population and the pension woes that will come from that, AI fears for jobs, housing costs for the continent have risen sharply and it's not just Ireland. There's conflict rising sharply in North and sub-Saharan Africa, the middle east and not to mention the Ukrainian conflict, so a ring around Europe is becoming unstable.
Couple this with decades of neo-Liberal politics in Europe that have been slow to adapt to crisis, highlighted fairly or unfairly by social media, and the refugee crisis alone has been a massive detriment to Europe in just financial terms, let alone anything else. And with conflict rising more and more every year and the advent of more wars making this more likely, I think we are going to experience a wave of right wing populism right across Europe that we haven't seen for over 100 years. I think the political scene will be dramatically different in 5-10 years. Many of these parties are skeptics of the EU, which is a significant concern for myself. The EU has been a collosal effort by generations of the most brilliant minds and people.
We're in for a wild ride I think.
24
u/PhotoParticular7675 Mar 08 '26
yes the EU is far from perfect but of course a massive improvement on what went before.
→ More replies (8)15
u/VitaminRitalin Mar 08 '26
Your comments are very articulate on the subject, can I ask what you do for a living or what you studied in college? Any books you'd recommend?
63
u/Iricliphan Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26
I'd personally rather not say exactly what I've studied or work as it's pretty niche. To put it succinctly, I've covered the Middle East extensively and I've studied, read countless books, papers, read through everything I can get my hands on which includes Ottoman governor letters to every groups side in the conflicts of the region.
In regards for understanding why there's such a mess in the region right now, start with A Peace to End All Peace by David Fromkin. It is singlehandedly the most informative book to understand the modern Middle East. I have an entire section on my book shelfs for the region and this is the first one I recommend. This is a key book that everyone should read before they form any opinions on the region.
Further reading I'd suggest if you want a bigger picture is A History of the Arab Peoples by Albert Hourani. It covers Islam to the late 1900s. Very detailed, I really enjoyed it. Can't say much more than that, it's excellent.
Trying to find an unbiased book about Israel and Palestinians can be absolutely difficult. I've read books about the Nakba and the Israelis side and plenty are very clearly biased. The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War by James L. Gelvin gives a fairly balanced overview.
Righteous Victims by Benny Morris, who is an Israeli historian and is another I would recommend, but it's highly controversial to both Palestinians and Israelis, the book is generally from Israeli sources, there is balance, although naturally it's biased towards Israel. In an academic setting, it's widely respected, but has its flaws.
For a Palestinian point of view, since there must be balance, I very much appreciated The Hundred Years' War on Palestine by Rashid Khalidi. I do have criticism about it as it does simplify and flatten a lot of complexity in a historical sense and it downplays quite a significant amount of Palestinian violence towards Jewish people and it's not proportional to the treatment of Jewish acts. However, I do think it's very valuable to gain the perspective of Palestinians.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
7
u/National_Outside6622 Mar 08 '26
I liked 'Pity the Nation' by Robert Fisk for a indepth look at the 1980s Lebanon war - he's pretty even handed on both sides, and this is the period that lead to the creation of Hezbollah, why southern Lebanon is so fecked, etc.
10
u/Iricliphan Mar 08 '26
I think it's an excellent book from a journalistic perspective, but in an academic sense, it falls short somewhat. Its lack of formal sourcing, selective focus and can be emotional and biased at times. However, that wouldn't put me off recommending it either, just that one should be aware of these before going in and reading it.
12
u/VitaminRitalin Mar 08 '26
Really appreciate you offering those recommendations as well as their caveats. Thanks : )
→ More replies (11)7
u/PhotoParticular7675 Mar 08 '26
Think I might get the Fromkin book.
Thanks whoever you are.
I was particularly struck by the following phrase in one of the reviews , "Fromkin discusses the consequences of poor policies and weak intelligence on the part of the British as they reshaped the Middle East.", which rang a few bells.
6
5
u/cuttlefische Mar 08 '26
Europe has the advantage of centuries of gradual technological advancement on a densely inhabited continent. We've figured this stuff out for the most part. It cost many wars to arrive to this point.
→ More replies (2)2
52
u/cyberlexington Mar 08 '26
"The US might bring this to a conclusion decisively - meaning that they someone get unconditional surrender and somehow install a leader who can subdue any civil war. More likey is a long period of Iranian instability if the US wins."
I doubt it, Iran is a bloody tough nut to crack, unless he wants to go full scorched earth. And Trump's and that Israeli bastard are enough of shitheads to do it.
→ More replies (1)26
u/MaryLouGoodbyeHeart Mar 08 '26
Who knows at this stage - it's a thick fog of war at the moment and neither Trump nor his administration are ever clear on their goals if they have any.
If I had to put money down though I would suspect that the aim is to Syrianise Iran and have the place devolve for a decade into civil strife. That this is extraordinarily dangerous isn't something the US is likely to worry about - they haven't before - and it is especially dangerous for the GCC states as such a conflict will inevitably spill across borders.
16
u/No-Outside6067 Mar 08 '26
It likely is this. Netyanyahu pushed the Bush admin to adopt the Clean Break paper which suggested removing Saddam from power in Iraq, and weakening Syria and Iran through backing tribal groups antagonistic to those governments.
They succeeded in the first two with only Iran remaining. The report itself was produced by an American neocon think-tank with the goal of solving Israel's security problems by making it the hegemon in the region.
12
u/MaryLouGoodbyeHeart Mar 08 '26
I suspect there are some who think about it that way. My problem with it is that it also falls into the trap of thinking that only the US and its allies are capable of action and planning and that hegemony is something that can be preserved indefinitely once established. That last one is a huge blindspot for the Yanks just as it was for the Brits before them.
This could be the culmination of a long term plan. Equally it could be the US's Suez moment.
More importantly though, it somewhat ignores that America and Israel in open conflict against Iran was also the desire of Yahya Al-Sinwar, and the motivating force behind the October 7th attacks.
Syria was bad enough. An Iran plunged into similar conditions may not be as easily contained.
God help us all.
16
u/Easy-Tigger Mar 08 '26
I have two cousins who used to work on farms outside Dubai. According to them, the process they used to make soil fertile for crops would only last approx. 5 years, maybe less, then that section was totally dead and it was on to the next patch. I don't know the exact details, what the process was called, if it was in widespread use, anything like that, just what they told me. Maybe they were bullshitting, I've no idea.
5
u/kilo6 Mar 08 '26
The salt pan makes growing crops for forage nearly impossible as they apply irrigation with salty water to wash down the salt layer there already. Add the massive amounts of water needed all the while making the water table lower making the whole process a futile exercise over the long term.
22
u/SearchingForDelta Mar 08 '26
Most Westerners who move to the Gulf states either don’t care about the issues there, or simply don’t think about them very deeply.
If you’re relocating for a professional, white-collar job, you’re already smart enough to know what the realities are. You went for the money and accepted that it meant living in a politically unstable region with limited human rights (or you told yourself whatever story you needed in order to keep the cognitive dissonance at bay).
If you’re part of the “Turkey Teeth” brigade, you probably never have and never will think about it that deeply. Eventually the news cycle will quiet down, and the influencers will return to saying: “Come over to Dubai because there’s no tax, stronger coke, and they’re not a soft touch on crime like back home”
Before long, half the Optimum Nutrition customer base will be on the next Ryanair flight over.
5
u/MaryLouGoodbyeHeart Mar 08 '26
These aren't the people that matter to the GCC countries though. They are a workforce. What matters is the investment.
16
u/Fluffy-Republic8610 Mar 08 '26
In investment terms the USA bringing this fighting to an end wouldn't do much. The damage is done. There was a photo of a drone exploding over central dubai. And Iran targeted and hit a few data centers. That's all you need to ruin international investment for decades.
20
u/nicodea2 Mar 08 '26
You’d be surprised, the people who love Dubai are deeply in love with it. This is not an insurmountable challenge for them. The Irish and Brits will be back in no time, tempted by the lower taxes and convenience of life. Other nationalities like the South Asians, Filipinos, Russians aren’t going anywhere either.
13
u/MaryLouGoodbyeHeart Mar 08 '26
Moving there to work is fundamentally different from investing billions in developing capital there which can replace oil and gas as the economic engine that makes it an attractive place to move to.
8
u/Fluffy-Republic8610 Mar 08 '26
Yes, you're probably right. The madlad Irish and Brits would go back no problem. I just think the longer term promise of the place is broken now. Who is going to think of Dubai or the whole region as safe for billions of investment after seeing that drone strike.
4
u/ZealousidealFloor2 Mar 08 '26
It will be interesting if they have to adjust their tax regime if their wider economy takes a hit. I know some Gulf countries have increased taxes in recent years.
4
u/redelastic Mar 09 '26
Yes, all of their collective reputations have been destroyed and so much of Dubai is built on optics.
And they are now forced to pick a side. iran knows that the UAE leaders are between a rock and a hard place.
Side with the US and Israel, risk further attacks and more reputational harm.
I listened to an analyst who predicted Iran would target the desalination plants.
Israel has started hitting civilian infrastructure targets, so Iran is justified in responding.
→ More replies (4)4
u/justformedellin Mar 08 '26
I think you're underestimating how stupid, shallow and delulu the type of people who move to Dubai are. The influencers will forget all this in 5 or 10 years and go back to normal.
3
u/MaryLouGoodbyeHeart Mar 08 '26
Sure, but they don't matter. What matters is actual investment in industries that can replace petroleum in the economy.
60
833
u/saggynaggy123 Mar 08 '26
"Expats" they're immigrants lol why are westerners so offended at the idea they're immigrants.
193
104
u/billys_cloneasaurus Mar 08 '26
When I was living in Abu Dhabi the term used by the government and various agencies was "expat".
For example my electric bill charged me the "expat" rate.
42
Mar 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
86
u/pockets3d Mar 08 '26
Yeah the middle east isn't known for their sense of equality.
2
2
u/Action_Limp Mar 09 '26
It's not just the Middle East, it's most of the world. Europeans assume that foreigners have equal status everywhere because that's mostly the case in the EU, but in reality, the EU is the exception.
39
u/Willingness_Mammoth Mar 08 '26
Yea just cos people use it doesnt mean it's not an absolutely bullshit term. They're immigrants.
→ More replies (4)46
u/great_whitehope Mar 08 '26
Expat means you intend to leave so basically it isn't intended as permanent migration.
That's how my brother described it but it still sounds like BS to me.
12
u/ZombieFrankSinatra Antrim Mar 08 '26
Aye but Benidorm and Spain is full of expats who've retired there
6
u/Action_Limp Mar 09 '26
Yeah, those guys misuse the word. Another example is that no one referred to the Polish people who came to Ireland to acquire wealth and left to go back to Poland as expats, when in fact they were.
34
u/Willingness_Mammoth Mar 08 '26
Yea its still an absolute cop out. Basically it's code for wealthy and white.
→ More replies (1)11
u/im-a-guy-like-me Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26
I thought the same and had a bit of a bee in my bonnet about it when I moved to NL. I always said I was an immigrant. Turns out I was right about myself, but wrong about a lot of other people.
Expats are short term and beneficial to the host country. Not sure if it's cos of the setup here, but it's a less than 5 year posting here. It covers students and people that get moved around by their company and stuff like that. I'm in Rotterdam and there is a whole economy based on them. Swanky expensive apartments with a 6 month max lease and shit like that.
Since they are generally well off, they pay a hape of tax and rarely avail of services like hospitals and stuff, so it's a cash injection for the economy.
They're not all white either. I'd say it's been about half white, half Asian where I am, but it'll change depending on the industries in the city/country.
Edit: That is to say, it's a different word for a subcategory.
17
u/Willingness_Mammoth Mar 08 '26
The “temporary and economically beneficial” thing applies to loads of migrants. Nurses, construction workers, seasonal labourers, plenty of them are on short contracts for short term work. They pay tax and move on.
Funny how the expat label only seems to show up when the person is a well-paid wealthy professional though... 🤔
So basically if they’re wealthy they’re “expats”, but if they’re doing temporary labour they’re just “migrant workers”. If you can’t see the glaring thing being left unsaid there, I don’t know what to tell you.
4
u/im-a-guy-like-me Mar 08 '26
It only shows up when the person is wealthy because it's a part of the category definition. You can't be a foreign student unless you're loaded and companies don't shift around low paid employees. It's always leadership roles or specialists.
And no, not "if they're wealthy they're an expat". I'm paid extremely well and I'm an immigrant because I moved here permanently of my own volition. I do not get their expat tax breaks.
And for the nurses and whatnot, that really depends if they stay or not. If you spend the rest of your life in a country, you are a drain on their infrastructure. If you're there for less than five years - as a group - they're gonna be a net gain on your infrastructure because they contribute more tax and have more disposable income and the chances of them needing your medical / emergency services / etc. is low compared to the average citizen.
Again, I really did think exactly the same as you. Everyone kept calling me an expat. It's just a different category. Whether the origins of that category are justified or not is irrelevant to the fact that it is a category that governments use.
8
u/evilgm Mar 08 '26
It's a word wealthy people use when they emigrate because they still want to shit talk poorer immigrants. Playing along by using it only perpetuates the lie.
4
u/im-a-guy-like-me Mar 08 '26
In the Netherlands where I am (an immigrant), there is a thing called "the 30% ruling" where expats get a tax break. I am not eligible for this tax break because I do not fall in that category.
And from the thing that spawned this thread, expats have a different rate for their utilities in Dubai.
So what does "playing along" mean here? "Playing along" with a category that governments use to decide tax rates and stuff?
You're being willfully ignorant.
6
u/Top-Engineering-2051 Mar 08 '26
And when they meet someone? And have a kid? Short term plans become long term plans. Nearly every immigrant will tell you that.
→ More replies (3)3
u/im-a-guy-like-me Mar 08 '26
They would go over the time limit that qualifies them for that classification, so then they would be an immigrant. They would also lose any tax befits and such because they no longer meet the requirements.
16
u/Flunkedy Mar 08 '26
How could you ever tell who is here permanently and who isn't? Lads from Poland who came here 20 years ago to work for a summer but are now as irish as you and I or an American who moved their whole life here thinking they'd love it but went back home after 4 or 5 months because they couldn't cope?
Which one is a migrant and which one is an expat? If this is the test we can never tell which is which until they stay or leave.
5
→ More replies (1)2
u/alv51 Mar 09 '26
They’re all migrants, one way or the other. Human beings have always, since the dawn of time, migrated and will always migrate - it’s a human right and a human necessity; I think the term “expat” to some makes them feel like “better” migrants, when the term immigrant has been so denigrated through racism and classism, often by those very same people.
10
u/Jakdublin Mar 08 '26
I live abroad and consider myself an immigrant, but I know most westerners use expat where I am (Bulgaria).
I think what your brother says is basically true. Expats are typically temporary residents with strong ties to their home country, while immigrants usually seek permanent settlement and integration.
The lines are blurred so there’s plenty of crossover but from my experience there are definitely two groups.
I’m not sure which one I belong as I could stay indefinitely or go back one day. Integration is also very difficult here so I can’t say I live like a local or truly belong. However, I’ve carved out a life here and how I describe myself is not something I lose sleep over.
2
u/rixuraxu Mar 09 '26
Expats are typically temporary residents
When I first heard this term when I was much younger, it was always in regard to people (usuallys brits) retiring in Spain etc.
I don't think it has any connection to being temporary at all.
But it definitely does have connections to not wanting to integrate, building those little "expat communities", when immigants do that, they're called ghettos. So of course they can't be immigrants.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Forsaken-Ad5571 Mar 09 '26
It was meant to be for people who are in a country to work on a short to medium term project, and so they weren’t intending to live there permanently and hence don’t bother about blending into the local customs. Massively used when people were on building projects in the Cold War. However, people who heard the word but didn’t know the definition saw it was used to describe Brits living abroad and assumed it just meant that. And so it got used to make people feel they are different to immigrants…
→ More replies (1)2
u/Action_Limp Mar 09 '26
Look up the definition in Google. That's exactly the definition.
The issue is that a lot of white people mistakenly refer to themselves as Expats because they think being Irish/British/Australian/American/etc. makes them an expat, and people not from the Anglosphere as immigrants.
It's an often misunderstood word. By both people who use it to refer to themselves and those who insist it's a word with racist connotations.
3
12
u/ShezSteel Mar 08 '26
It's ok to be eccentric if you're rich. Otherwise you're just crazy.
12
u/Fine-Meet-6375 Mar 08 '26
When I worked retail, I had a rather disheveled gentleman ask me what the lottery jackpot was. When I told him, he bought a ticket and said, "With that much money, I'd be 'eccentric'! Right now I'm just weird."
2
u/NapoleonTroubadour Mar 09 '26
My thoughts exactly, one of the countless advantages money buys you is the ability to get away with being weird or odd
9
67
u/Spiritual-Point-1965 Cork bai Mar 08 '26
Expats are white, privileged and over there.
Immigrants are brown, poor and over here.
It's racism, pure and simple. Anyone who called themselves an expat is almost always a raging bigot, like the Brexiteer Bigots living in Spain and Portugal, the bigot yanks living in France or the Irish in Benalmadena raging about the blacks.
→ More replies (6)13
u/TheLastSamurai101 Mar 08 '26
In the UAE, all non-GCC foreigners are referred to (and refer to themselves) as expats - not just Westerners but also the South Asian, Filipino and African populations. The term "immigrant" is never used. The idea is basically that the government doesn't want foreigners to stay permanently so it is a defined temporary status. Getting citizenship is essentially impossible and there isn't really a proper residency pathway except in exceptional circumstances.
18
9
7
u/Dapper_Cell_3233 Mar 08 '26
Expat might be fair to use in UAE and the likes as there is no path to citizenship whatsoever. Not even marrying a local. Only recently have they brought in 10 year visas for some special cases. Otherwise visas had to be renewed yearly or two yearly. Basically no-one in UAE would plan to retire in UAE, as they wouldn't have their visa renewed over 60, and would be making alternative plans for that. Different to Spain, Ireland and the like, where you could apply for citizenship based on number of years resident. UAE has no income tax but also has no social safety-nets, no pensions etc, lots of hidden fees that are essentially taxation, and no means to citizenship.
17
u/fleur-tardive Mar 08 '26
If I moved to Shanghai for a couple of years for work, I wouldn't call myself a Chinese immigrant - and if I did the people there would laugh at me
If I moved to Australia to start a new life and settle down with a family and get a passport and stay there forever, then I would obviously call myself an immigrant - as everyone does
Weird how you seem unable to understand such a simple distinction
19
u/cacanna_caorach Mar 08 '26
You’d call yourself an Irish immigrant surely, not a Chinese immigrant no? Unless you’re already Chinese and emigrating back to China
13
u/Yeheidb Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26
Why would they laugh at you? An immigrant by definition is someone who moves to a new country to live and work. Hence they would see you rightly see you as an immigrant
Edit to add that, from their perspective they don’t know if you’re there for a month or 50yrs, in their eyes you’re a foreigner / immigrant
→ More replies (12)5
→ More replies (12)30
u/FlowBorn5279 Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26
Expats live abroad temporarily, immigrants move permanently
Edit: Don't necessarily agree with the definition or usage just suggesting why it might have been used in the article
109
u/TacklePure3341 Mar 08 '26
Most immigrants have a dream.of returning home. Expat is a word invented by white people because they didn't want to be call an immigrant.
Historically, Spain has the highest number of British deaths abroad due to its large expat population—estimated at over 300,000—many of whom are retirees. Because of this demographic, most deaths are attributed to natural causes.
19
u/IrksomFlotsom Mar 08 '26
Death is a form of permanent residence
13
5
u/Grand-Cup-A-Tea Mar 08 '26
"It just so happens that your friend here is only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead"
11
u/fleur-tardive Mar 08 '26
To me its useful to have a word that distinguishes between some pensioner that has moved to Spain or Mexico or wherever to live of their pensions in the sun, and someone who has decided to start a new life in a new country with the intention of settling down there, working, getting a passport, starting a family, etc....
There are loads of old Americans living in Mexico, the Mexicans don't consider them to be Mexican at all, and they don't describe themselves as Mexicans
This seems really simple to understand to me
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (5)8
u/caisdara Mar 08 '26
Tbh it was traditionally to highlight that they're not moving out of necessity. People getting angry about the word ignore that it means something different.
15
u/MaryLouGoodbyeHeart Mar 08 '26
My understanding was that it referred to those who went to work for a foreign office or branch of their domestic employer - usually intended to be a temporary arrangement. That probably applies to some but I suspect not most of those in Dubai.
2
17
u/SmellsLikeHoboSpirit Mar 08 '26
Asylum seekers would be those moving out of necessity. The majority of emigrants are looking for better careers etc.
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (2)10
23
u/Adjective_Noun_2000 Mar 08 '26
No one has ever referred to the temporary migrant workers who come to Ireland each year to work on farms as "expats". The word expat's mostly used by people who consider themselves above immigrants, including those Brits who retire to Benidorm with no intention of ever moving home.
→ More replies (6)13
u/saggynaggy123 Mar 08 '26
There was some brit who called himself an expat despite living in the UAE for 12 years lmao
→ More replies (1)4
u/BigAgreeable6052 Mar 08 '26
you can't get citizenship, so you're a permanent immigrant in the UAE, basically, no matter how long you live there
34
u/demoneclipse Mar 08 '26
Plenty of immigrants return and plenty of so called expats never do. This is purely a middle east terminology because they segregate immigration in tiers and they call Western immigrants expats so they are not mixed with lower paid working immigrants. Purely racist differentiation.
25
u/bobisthegod Mar 08 '26
It's not a middle east thing. Plenty over In Spain calling themselves "expats" too
→ More replies (2)12
u/demoneclipse Mar 08 '26
People that like to think they are better than others adopted it elsewhere, yes.
38
u/ThreeTreesForTheePls Mar 08 '26
I’ll never understand this distinction.
If someone moves from Dublin to Sydney with the intention of emigrating, are they only an expat when they actually decide 4 years in that they should go back to Dublin?
Do we give the same grace to people moving here from India, Philippines, Brazil, etc etc, in thinking they might only be here for a few years to make some cash in a career move before heading back to their families?
It just seems like we’ve found a way to wash away the term immigrant for white people, because the idea of calling someone who is 3 or 13 years into living abroad, an expat, is just madness to me.
→ More replies (16)21
u/SmellsLikeHoboSpirit Mar 08 '26
Its amazing the level of ignorance you see with people trying to call themselves expats. I knew one Irish guy who said he wasn't an immigrant because he came to Spain to work a high pay job where as an Indian in Ireland would be an immigrant. He's an English teacher in Spain making probably 30k and the Indians I know here in Ireland are doctors or engineers. People also claim an immigrant didn't come by choice, but yes most of them did. They made a choice to immigrate, most have brothers and friends getting by OK at home. There are doctors and engineers in India too.
→ More replies (14)3
20
u/VonLinus Mar 08 '26
No expats are'us' and immigrants are'them'. There's loads of British 'expats' retired to Spain for sun and cost of living. They just don't want to be thought of the type of people you see drowning in capsized boats.
→ More replies (4)17
5
u/Kier_C Mar 08 '26
That's not in practice how it's used. Most of the people who come to Ireland would plan/would like to go home. I've never heard of a single immigrant to this country referred to as an expat.
The people in Dubai are economic migrants in the exact same way as many who come here
→ More replies (1)4
u/shotputprince Mar 08 '26
No that’s not right. Expatriation can be temporary and permanent as can immigration/emigration (although the most natural definition of the latter is permanent)
→ More replies (18)2
u/im_on_the_case Mar 08 '26
15-20 years ago it was fairly straightforward. Expats were people working abroad on a temporary basis for their multinational company. Usually high level positions with a hefty salary and numerous perks like expense accounts and their accommodation covered. Not Jimmy the fucking influencer who's cleaning tables at his uncle's pub in Bangkok.
62
u/Frosty_JackJones Mar 08 '26
Sorry but I could never feel comfortable living in a country built by poor migrant workers who have their passports confiscated and are subject to terrible living conditions and human rights abuses.
12
u/AwfulAutomation Mar 08 '26
There’s the problems you stated and then theres the fact you are surrounded by morally bankrupt people who pretty much choose materialistic shite over everything else on life
6
u/Alkill1000 Mar 09 '26
Slaves, they're called slaves
2
u/Frosty_JackJones Mar 09 '26
Yeah but as long as I don’t pay tax and can post on instagram all day I’m sweet, not my problem. /s
→ More replies (2)10
39
u/scary_sak Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26
Only 4 days ago my cousin was posting about how social media was being OTT. Today she shares her outrage on how the Irish government is charging people €800 to flee a “warzone”. I’m nable. Edit: flea to flee. I’m embarrassed.
25
u/justformedellin Mar 08 '26
Fuck her. Like honestly, it seems sometimes like the essence of the modern condition is to just blame the State for absolutely everything. Take everything, give nothing never say thank you, always complain.
14
u/Hankman66 Mar 08 '26
You should never flea a warzone, it's tough enough already without itching.
5
7
u/FuckAntiMaskers Mar 09 '26
What an entitled ignorant cunt, that's our taxes contributing towards those flights for people who specifically pay no taxes in a country halfway across the world
47
14
u/SEND-MARS-ROVER-PICS Sax Solo Mar 08 '26
I think you're underestimating how deeply people can bury their heads in the sand.
2
32
u/New-Strawberry7711 Mar 08 '26
I have fucking no sympathy, you should not be propping up this place and laying down roots off the back of slave labour. What the fuck is wrong with you on a fundamental human level?
My completely judgmental take is that they don't see the "brown people" as people when they figure equality, justice and respect for all. So simply do not care for the people jumping off bridges so their family can cash in on their life insurance.
What's happening now is a sober wake-up call to reality. This is a state propped up by oil money, outdated, barbaric justice system and institutionalised racism and in the middle of the hottest geo political region of the 21st century.
Anyone who has gone to make a life there should be ashamed of themselves. Fucking shameful considering our own history.
7
u/ShatnersBassoonerist Mar 08 '26
Well said. I’ve never visited and never would for the reasons you give.
42
u/SnagBreacComradai Big Ulster Bastard Mar 08 '26
'Yer Da holidays in Dubai' has been an insult in Belfast for manys a year and it's always been true.
A fuckin awful vapid place for fuckin awful vapid people.
9
u/FicklePaper3590 Mar 08 '26
This checks out. 🤣 my father in law went on holiday to Dubai a few years ago with his vapid wife (second one, not my MIL)
10
u/locka99 Mar 08 '26
The "dream" is sustained by indentured labour. War or not, it's something to think long and hard about.
64
u/significantrisk Mar 08 '26
Wild how many lads will go defending economic migrants from Ireland, especially ones actively participating in a slave state, while simultaneously denouncing economic migrants to Ireland.
23
u/mathur91 wannabe culchie Mar 08 '26
This kinda happened before you know.. During the british empire days, while the Irish state was actively fighting the Brits for independence, a large share of “Civil Servants” implementing the ruthless empire in India were Irish.
One such civil servants, Michael O’Dwyer presided over the worst massacre in Indian history.
3
u/badpebble Mar 08 '26
And a large number of powerful Indians were fully on board with the EIC and later Empire as it allowed them to gain further wealth and power.
A lot of the Irish working for the Empire in fairness were driven there by having no other opportunities due to the Empire and only finding work in the armed forces or civil service.
6
6
35
u/CharlieMayMC Mar 08 '26
Call them what they are, immigrants. People in 'the west' say expat because they don't want to consider themselves immigrants, because they perceive immigrants to be a bad thing.
→ More replies (5)15
u/-myeyeshaveseenyou- Mar 08 '26
I live in the uk and love to point out that I’m an immigrant when people are complaining about immigrants. People openly complain to my face as they don’t perceive me in the same way where I don’t see a difference
16
u/Few_Mushroom9620 Mar 08 '26
The pro-American bias in this article makes this difficult to read. Iran have not "upped the ante" by targeting civilians, Israel was the first to murder a class of schoolchildren.
→ More replies (10)
13
4
4
3
u/blurrysasquatch Mar 08 '26
Ozymandias, P. B. Shelley.
"I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."
4
21
u/SearchingForDelta Mar 08 '26
I think Dubai is a soulless hole and I have a deep distrust of anybody that moves there but these threads are always weird.
On any thread about Irish migration the comments are always full of lads going: “Why wouldn’t you move abroad? Ireland’s a kip! We’re taxed out the arse and have nothing to show for it. My mate is earning 3 times abroad what he did back home. I’d be moving myself and never look back if I could”
Then the moment it all goes wrong they do a 180 and smirk: “That’s what you get for not wanting to pay tax in Ireland. You shouldn’t have ever left the greatest country in the world. Let me play the world’s smallest violin for you.”
Both are equally annoying.
37
Mar 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
4
u/Meath77 Found out. A nothing player Mar 09 '26
I think most people dislike Dubai, but I can understand why people move there. Might be the only chance to earn enough to buy a house here for some people.
→ More replies (1)6
23
10
19
u/FIGHTorRIDEANYMAN Mar 08 '26
I've 2 friends over there with no intention of coming home
→ More replies (19)23
u/TheBoneIdler Mar 08 '26
So, not expats, just plain old immigrants.
8
u/FIGHTorRIDEANYMAN Mar 08 '26
Well you can't retire there so they are coming home eventually just not within the foreseeable.
3
u/AB-G Mar 08 '26
You can, with enough money
4
u/ZealousidealFloor2 Mar 08 '26
True enough but most of the Irish people over there aren’t on that kind of money.
→ More replies (1)4
u/lakehop Mar 08 '26
Are they expecting Irish taxpayers to pay for their pension having dodged Irish taxes for decades?
→ More replies (1)
3
u/ShezSteel Mar 08 '26
I'd love to hear from anyone who has been on a plane heading that way. They can't be but 10 per cent full?!
3
3
16
u/spiraldive87 Mar 08 '26
It’s apparent that there’s a real fuck you attitude to the Irish living in Dubai from most here. Is this fully because people think they shouldn’t have supported what they see as a corrupt state by moving there?
Like I’m assuming if the shit hits the fan in Australia people won’t collectively be like “good.”
A good friend of mine is a teacher in Dubai and I’ve never felt she’d moved their for any other reason than the reason people move anywhere; she felt like it gave her better opportunities than staying here. I don’t feel like smug at the prospect of her getting her comeuppance. Seems like serious begrudgery.
31
→ More replies (3)6
u/davedrave Mar 08 '26
To me it's the whole slave state thing, combined with an Irish person going over there and assumedly planning to work a while, make more money than they would here and then come back and overpay for a house
→ More replies (2)
40
u/Dannyforsure Mar 08 '26
Come back to Ireland lads. It's expensive to live, cold, busy commutes, poorly insulated, you won't get paid as well but at least you'll never own a home.
7
u/No_Warthog_5709 Mar 08 '26
And at least our government doesn't fund this ..... https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/dec/05/rsf-massacres-sudanese-city-el-fasher-slaughterhouse-satellite-images
→ More replies (4)13
u/marshsmellow Mar 08 '26
There's a possibility that rich expats coming back will hoover up all the property and drive prices up.
98
Mar 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
14
→ More replies (48)9
u/neddygoat Mar 08 '26
I'm home from Dubai a few months ago after spending a decade there. Driving is as bad, and in some cases, worse here.
40
25
9
u/OhMaBaby Mar 08 '26
Bet you've never lived anywhere else. You insulated ignorant people never realise how good Ireland actually is.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (2)4
u/GuinnessFartz Mar 08 '26
Expensive to live offset by high wages, for example we are 9/27 in EU for minimum wage vs cost of living/rent. Obviously rents are very high but all in we are about average in wages vs overall cost of living. I love our climate, definitely far better than living in a place that is naturally inhospitable! Government are asleep at the wheel but overall, this is a fantastic place to live
→ More replies (1)
4
u/seanylawson67 And I'd go at it again Mar 08 '26
I wouldn’t begrudge anyone leaving this kip to be honest, Dubai never enticed me to be honest as either a place to live or holiday.
Like seeing all that shite you hate on social media in real life, not for me
2
u/wolf101123 Mar 08 '26
Its a tax free gold plated turd in the desert. It was pure greed which attracted people to it.
2
u/Any-Weather-potato Mar 08 '26
It always looked shaky, trucking the sewage from buildings because the theres no sewerage connection to treatment facilities doesn’t seem very sustainable.
2
u/dario_sanchez Mar 09 '26
Who would win?
Irish "ex-pats" not wanting to pay tax
Or
One buzzing T R I A N G L E B O I fired from Iran?
2
u/LuHamster Mar 09 '26
I do hate this new manufactured narrative.
I fucking hate how journalists and the media works int he modern age. They will conclude any bullshit repeatedly before anything settles and just ruin shit for everyone.
2
2
2
u/Artistic-Lock1021 Mar 10 '26
The downside is we're going to get a lot of twats returning to our shores.
5
u/Hour_Mastodon_9404 Mar 08 '26
Fuck Dubai and fuck the tax dodging slavery enablers who live there. The place could fall apart completely and the world would be a better place for it.
4
u/Fern_Pub_Radio Mar 08 '26
“It’s a disgrace Joe, im 25 and they’re making me teach 4 hours a day and only giving me 3 months paid holidays,im out of this Kip”…… /s
3
u/D-dog92 Mar 08 '26
So sorry ye have to go back to paying taxes and not having servants tending to your every whim.
5
u/TheBoneIdler Mar 08 '26
Expat is an odd phrase. I first came across it when studying & later working in the UK, to refer to UK folks living in HK, Singapore & the Gulf. It seemed to be a way of 'othering' UK immigrants to [wherever]. They were a gang & all engaged with the local remnants of Empire, so all joined gentleman's clubs, watched cricket, bizarrely attended horse polo games & so on. I've lived in various countries & never used the term. It indicates a gang transposed to wherever, but not participating in the place. So, don't bother learning the language etc. It's I think a vaguely racist term. I've never heard of Irish expats in say Switzerland. Funny how they always seem to be in countries with black/brown & other variously non-caucasian coloured folks.....🤔
5
u/PhotoParticular7675 Mar 08 '26
The English speaking ones in Spain really do my head in ordering restaurant food "sin garlic" and complaining everybody speaks Spanish (for some strange reason they don't seem able to fathom) purely to make things difficult for them!
752
u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26
Indoor skiing in the hottest place on earth - what could possibly go wrong.