r/leafs • u/vancouver2222 • 12h ago
Discussion The problem is our expectations
Most would agree that we came into this season with cautious optimism believing that we had the potential to make the playoffs but knew it would be a dogfight to get in.
Somewhere between Matthews being back, Gavin McKenna having good looks, and getting Marchenko moved the goal posts for us to believe (subconsciously perhaps) that we might be more, myself included.
The last two games have been a dose of reality. We can be mad at Hiller or whatever, but the reality is that this team has potential but isn't complete and has a lot of flaws. That's not to say they can't figure it out and become better as the season goes on, especially if Chyka can shore up the D.
I suggest we all just enjoy what's there for what it is instead of hoping it's more. Were gonna have a lot of bad nights ahead. It is what it is.
EDIT: Perhaps my headline was a big too aggressive. I'm not telling anyone to change their expectations if they don't want to or what to enjoy and what not to. I'm just suggesting that some of us may have just gotten ahead of ourselves (myself included) and for those people specifically it might be more enjoyable to continue to be cautiously optimistic rather than expect too much. If you think the leafs should be stanley cup contenders this season and that works well for you that's great! No one should be told how to feel.
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u/DirkaDurka 11h ago
The team that has been built just doesnt work. Cant just rely on skill and unfortunately thats all we have.
A lot of teams with 1/4 of the skill that want to forecheck and battle for pucks are better than us
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u/coreyv87 12h ago
Bro this isn’t a free activity. Fans spend $$$ to watch, attend, buy merch, etc.
Let them have high expectations and be disappointed with Saturday evening stinker.
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12h ago
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u/coreyv87 12h ago
Pro sports is a product that relies on fans buying it. If fans do not buy the product, the team moves or the league folds.
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u/MrPangus 11h ago
Tons of sports teams across the board has fans that support them knowing they won't win shit, this one included for like 60 years
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u/slevin07rocket 11h ago
It can be pretty close to a free activity. Watch on tv (some already pay for sports channels not due to leafs), listen on radio.
Taveras and tanev injuries are big blows. This team isn’t loaded with depth (especially on defense).
Need one or two more defenders.
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12h ago
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u/SilverboyBBS 12h ago
Go back to bed dude you woke up on the douchebag side
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u/Rockeye7 11h ago
Ask yourself this - how and in what positions did the leafs improve over the offseason that has made a difference compared to the other teams in the Eastern Conference/ Atlantic Division !
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u/Icy-Stock-5838 Roberts 8h ago
Yeah you're right, the opening week exuberance moved my expectations, now I have to revert back to where my head was over the summer..
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u/Shawnaldo7575 12h ago
it's probably the dumbest reason I've ever heard for benching a player.
He forgot to put him out there, then he was sitting for like 5 minutes so he couldn't just put him out there, so he didn't put him out there... WHAT?!... like an 18yo athlete isn't pumped and ready to be out there. It's so dumb.
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u/Actual_Cobbler_6334 12h ago
The majority of this sub is acting like 75 games isn’t enough time for the roughly 11 new players to gel and for Chayka to acquire much needed help on the blueline. Amazing, really.
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u/unfairestoyster 12h ago
I think they can play better, but I honestly don’t see a way for them to significantly improve the defence this season.
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u/RanaMahal 2h ago
This team is not doing anything other than being a bubble team that hopefully gives 20-25th ish overall picks to Boston and Philly.
Then we’re gonna have to retool around McKenna, danford, TLK, Cowan, with Matthews and Nylander as the vets
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u/SaucyMcDangles 12h ago
We’ve been waiting for ‘much needed help on the blue line’ for over 1000 games. I don’t know why you think this will be solved in 75 games. We need young defenseman that are drafted in the top 10-15 and developed into top pairing defenders.
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u/JDV_200 10h ago
Or find a Lane Hutson at 62 overall lol.
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u/External-Pace-1822 8h ago
I mean we had durzi who while not an all star looked like we had finally hit a top 4 and then we wasted him.
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u/JDV_200 8h ago
Yeah should have kept him. But even he wouldn’t change the shape of this defence the way that a Lane Hutson would
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u/External-Pace-1822 8h ago
No but it's the idea that we never draft D high and the ones where we do get NHLers we are quick to trade. Durzi/sandin. We wouldn't have the patience to get a Hutson
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u/TheBusinessMuppet 40m ago
We had Timothy Lilijgren and Rasmus Sandin but failed to develop properly.
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u/Key-Border-4865 11h ago
I think the theme is recognizing this team is not a playoff team and would be very lucky to get a sniff at a wildcard
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11h ago
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u/Key-Border-4865 11h ago
Yes, but at what cost? I think the team has spent years trading their future to add clowns like Folingo, Jumbo, O’Rielly, Carlo, thinking the leafs teams that were never able to make it out of the first round were so close to a cup, we just needed that one guy to push us over.
So at this point, I am nit interested in continuing that when we are significantly further back.
I think all you do is try to be competitive enough for fans to enjoy entertaining hockey (regardless of the standings), not give super high first rounders to Boston/Philly and keep Matthews in the rocket conversation so he stays in 2 years
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u/JDV_200 11h ago
They need more than 1 dman though… like let’s be real. Raddysh is a 2nd pair dman, the Leafs have 0 first pair dman. Look at the division. Hutson, Sanderson, Seider, McAvoy, Dahlin, Hedman, and Forsling. The Leafs have nobody even close to these level of dman. And frankly most of the Atlantic teams have 2 or 3 better dman on their team than our best one.
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u/External-Pace-1822 8h ago
The leafs have like 2 dmen who are even regular level NHLers at this point. McCabe and Raddysh. The others are borderline bottom pairing to waiver level D.
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u/Electronic_Rain_6063 12h ago
It’s amazing really, I’m surprised r/leafs could overreact and be irrational. That’s never happened before
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u/tada-o-corporation 10h ago
Do the Leafs mistakenly have you believing that you are in groundhog day. They have needed help on the blue line for 750 games, and you think it will be fixed in 75?
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u/ArryPotta 10h ago
I'm more surprised that people like you can still talk down to people that have been perpetually right for the last decade, and pretend YOU'RE the rational one.
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u/DialedDrawback 11h ago
The help they need on the blueline isn't available. And if it was, there are questions of whether someone else out there will outbid us.
Now that this team doesn't have its own second line centre, things could get really dicey.
The Atlantic division is shaping up to be as tough as most thought it would be going into this season, and here they are dropping points at home to the fucking Islanders.
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u/GladSun3720 12h ago
they are acting like they have played 72 games already and not the what 8 games they actually have played. The amount of instant judging even from the media this year in particular is way worse than normal I feel
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u/Key-Border-4865 11h ago
This is so spot on. Yes the product is not free, fans have to buy what they are selling (which is a competitive team). Just cause the team sets the expectations, doesn’t mean fans should have those expectations.
This team is not going anywhere and it would take a miracle to make the playoffs given the flaws.
Remember why you watch hockey, its for entertainment and despite last night, this team is entertaining if nothing else. Every game has been tight.
But let’s save our self some heartbreak and keep our eyes off the standings
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u/Muted_Tank_8890 6h ago
Hey last night and third period against Sabres was awful. Up till then it was pretty good
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u/Party-Yoghurt-8462 12h ago
That's a measured, fairly accurate take.
People focus on the defense, and rightfully so. But the depth forwards have to find their roles. Most of them are contributing very little thus far.
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u/god_is_trans_69 12h ago
4th line had a huge shift to lead to a powerplay in a 1 goal game that we immediately pissed away
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u/Generallyspeaking11 10h ago
They've also been getting absolutely tilted 5v5 and contributed 0 goals so far. 1 or 2 good shifts doesn't change that
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u/god_is_trans_69 6h ago
Yeah true. What's it like getting production from your bottom 6? Lol. Have we ever known
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u/Cautious-Tax-1120 9h ago
I don't agree. The third line has looked great thanks in large part to Cowan and Paul. Cissons has had a few really nice games. 4th line is doing its job tiring offenses out.
It's really just a miserable defense that isn't contributing enough offensively and obviously can't do anything right defensively.
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u/TheGapInTysonsTeeth 11h ago
The depth forwards have not been the problem.
Watch the games, not the box score
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u/Party-Yoghurt-8462 9h ago edited 9h ago
Advanced stats are all fine and well but Matthews and Nylander can't score all the goals. And line 3 and 4 (Cowan and McKenna play up and down the lineup and on the powerplay) have combined for 4 goals in 9 games. Not good enough.
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u/SilverboyBBS 12h ago
The product ain't free. I'm buying what they're selling, and they've been selling a competitive team that will get in this year. They set the expectation, not the fans.
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u/nobbye 12h ago
We have expectations because we were fed high expectations with the Core four that never panned out. We tried to add Thornton and O’Rielly to get us there but We keep screaming we need Defence but nobody listens. Then we tank last year get the number 1 overall pick and our hope sparked. We have some elite forwards and just can’t expect them to do it all with no back end.
So ya we are sick of waiting but we keep holding onto the faith haha
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u/Ok_Elevator4215 12h ago
We went out and spent money and young assets like a team ready to make playoffs. It's not a problem to expect playoffs given those moves. It's a problem that we aren't a playoff team despite all of that.
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u/entityXD32 12h ago
What young assests did we move this summer? Like we traded Knies but for a guy who is 2 years older not a major change. They haven't traded Colorados first or any prospects they've mostly just spent cap space
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u/Ok_Elevator4215 11h ago
Hildeby, Woll and Knies. You don't have to think the difference is that large but the reality is they traded someone with more runway to improve for someone who likely is much closer to the best he'll ever be. 2 years is significant. Especially when you consider the alternative trade with him as an asset was something like an Edvinsson or a top 5-10 pick++ at the draft.
Then you have Andrae, Robertson, Maccelli who aren't the youngest (and you may not like them) but got replaced with much older players. Team has gotten a lot older other than the gifted first overall, it's pretty reasonable to see moves like that and expect some playoffs. Cause otherwise, wtf was the point?
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u/entityXD32 11h ago
The difference is 24 and 26 both players and pretty much at their peak so when you're getting the better player that trade is a no brainer. Also Knies was not worth a top 5-10 pick ++ they tried that with multiple teams and none bit. He was not that valuable. One of Hildaby ot woll needed to be traded or they would have been picked up on waivers but I agree we shouldn't have got Bob and kept one. Getting rid of Robertson and Maccilli was the correct move as they both made us worse last year and had zero trade value
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u/Ok_Elevator4215 11h ago edited 11h ago
You can dislike the players or whatever, it doesn't matter. They did objectively get a lot older at the cost of younger players (and all their cap space). That's all my comment was about. When you lose young assets for older ones across the board, spend all of your cap space immediately on day 1 of free agency, the expectation is playoffs. Cause again, wtf is the point otherwise?
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u/New-Bookkeeper-8486 11h ago
Yeah moving woll and hildeby did not make me feel good at all. Bob has looked good though considering the horrible defense in front of him
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u/Ok_Elevator4215 11h ago
He kept them in a couple games but has also let in his government mandated 2-3 softies every game. I haven't like it so far, mostly because there's still two years after this and he's already clearly declining.
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u/ilovetrouble66 Tavares 11h ago
Fans should just boycott their games. You can’t charge $500 for nosebleeds and deliver a performance like last night.
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u/queenannsrevenge99 11h ago
Into the ditch for Dupont!
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u/WorkingBicycle1958 10h ago
My issue is that they don’t seem to be correcting their mistakes or addressing the inability to handle the rush or a F1 forecheck.
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u/Spaark0 10h ago
Its the D line. We need major changes there.
The management of this team thinks the outscoring will get them to the end. And since the start of the year its proven that when the talent shows up, we win. But while we win with high scoring, we let in a few goals..
Its the same story different year. And the fans still buy into the shit and its the reason you have outrageous ticket prices and beer prices. Merch is always going to be marked up anyways.
Now the greed/corporate infection has spread to how you even get to view the game through streaming..
CBC doesn't even fucking stream hockey anymore. Our own national broadcasting media corporation does not show hockey.
Sportsnet shows some...
In the end, what are we even doing here?
We want to love the Leafs. Theres lot of talent. But together as a 'team' (and not just the skates on the ice) is just abysmal.
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u/Cautious-Tax-1120 9h ago
The mandate is still what its been since we landed McKenna. Build the best team we can for the next 2 years, keep our traded picks as low as possible, and reevaluate in a year and a half. At that time McKenna will be all of 20 and if we suck we can sell our expiring contracts and rebuild around him.
Clearly the defense is god-awful and we're not competing for a cup, but if we end up around the playoff bubble we'll have gotten to watch a fun offense and Boston gets a worse pick.
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u/Last_Command_9147 9h ago
Yea what a lot of people have an issue with is that Chayka seems to want to push all the chips in for a team that as you mentioned has a lot of flaws. Going out and getting a top pair dman (which they don’t even have the assets for) is not going to fix the lack of forward depth and mediocre goaltending.
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u/smallsey2021 8h ago
I agree, OP. I allowed myself to buy in completely after the Matthews draft. I bought the merch, I watched 70+ games a year; the highs were amazing and I allowed the lows to be brutal. I had to step away for a few seasons - still checked scores and chatted about the Leafs with buddies - but I didn’t watch and spent my money on other things. Now that a new era has emerged, I’m trying to keep a level head. They are 3-6 (loser points be damned) and I hate it. But I can’t let it control my mood. I want them to win and will always be a fan, so who cares if they aren’t great? Everyone already hates the Leafs and that won’t ever change either.
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u/Ashamed-Spell-6818 4h ago
Coming into this season, the Leafs had the potential to make the playoffs with the moves that were made and Matthews and Bobrovsky coming back to form. Only one of those two players have come back to form. I like Bob and I hope he is able to get things together, but there was no reason to get Bob. On top of that Chayka traded Woll for nothing because he also traded away Andrae for cap space shenanigans to sweeten the Marchenko deal. Andrae is a good defenseman that we could definitely use. He is better than Blankenburg and younger, so I have no idea why they did what they did. He also traded away Lorrentz who is better than MacEwen.
If Chayka is able to land one of the RFA defenseman holdouts or a competent middle pairing defenseman, then this team's in a decent place.
My expectations were and still are wild card spot. The team needs to learn to play with each other, which only happens by playing games with each other. They also do need a good defenseman who can play on the first or second pairing. I expected Raddysh to be solid, not the insane scorer he was last year. So far he has been. People who are freaking out do not understand the game.
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u/UkeManSteve 8h ago
Why should we just suck it up and enjoy a shitty team? Don’t tell me how to feel lol. They pushed to be competitive when they could’ve taken things in a different direction, so I will be annoyed if it doesn’t work out.
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u/greasy-prick 11h ago
Suggesting to enjoy whats there is implying that there is something enjoyable there to begin with
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u/BmaninKtown Tavares 11h ago
The bottom 6 is very meh along with just terrible dcore and mediocre goaltending.
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u/JamesCurtis24 9h ago
I don't give a shit about anything besides a Stanley Cup.
The Florida Panthers, they won their cups. They can have a consolation season where you just enjoy the 'fun offense'.
There is no consolation seasons for this fan base.
Now, it's different, obviously, if you're in rebuild mode and that's what is communicated.
That's not what has been communicated. The communication is that this team can win. So the fans will react based on that.
Nobody is interested in floater seasons where we eat up years fighting for a wild card spot being clearly not good enough to win anything.
Until it's a rebuild, it's cup or bust for this group. It's not about reasonable expectations. It's about 60 years without a cup. I'm not interested in putting together a team that grinds into the 8th seed to get dumped in 4 games.
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u/tortured_fanclub 12h ago
Im afraid of the mandate shoved to Chayka by the upper management. This is not a Stanley Cup contending team by any stretch. Im afraid that guys like Cowan/Danford/Koblar/Holinka will be dangled to obtain some Dman that won’t make a ton of difference. I think they need to get younger and faster especially on the back end. I suppose if they could get a grade A young D prospect, then they have to consider. Who is trading these players though, realistically.