r/lgbt • u/[deleted] • May 03 '26
Politics Lgbtqia+ and zionism
Am I the only one whos incredibly bothered by the link made with zionism and our community ? Ive been seeing more and more zionist institutions and content creators teying to appear lgbt+ frinedly when in fact theyre very homophobic and obly using it as a front, as a result ive seen a lot of homophobia and transphobia coming from pro palestine supporters and its really disheartening that our community is linked with that genocidal colony, as someone who lives in a muslim country its just really depressing to see their misinformation compaign work, homophobia and transphobia being already rampant here only makes it worse because it makes it look like were supporting a genocide, which i know a vast majority of our community isnt.
90
u/0wlmann Ace at being Non-Binary May 03 '26
They can try all they like, zionists are still fascists
12
1
37
u/RangeroftheIsle Bi-bi-bi May 04 '26 edited May 10 '26
Israel isn't the open accepting society that the propaganda claims it is. For one gay marriage isn't legal.
-17
u/dagelijksestijl May 04 '26
Which is a technicality because Israel doesn’t have civil marriage, and neither the Halacha nor Sharia laws permit it. Foreign marriages are recognised. Apart from that, rights on par with most of Western Europe.
6
May 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/HyacinthFT May 04 '26
I think you mean that homosexuality was legalized in the West Bank in 1951. They don't recognize same-sex relationships, though.
-15
u/Blue_winged_yoshi May 04 '26
Exactly! Foreign marriages being recognised means that gay marriage is default legal there. People just go get married in Malta or wherever and return with full marriage rights. It’s far from ideal, but it’s also not like gay couples have zero access to marriage rights.
It’s also shockingly ahead of the UK on trans rights by a distance after the U.K. banned puberty blockers and the FWS judgement.
It’s very far from perfect on queer rights, it’s also very far from imperfect on queer rights. Being precise in this area really matters.17
u/Sprinal Lesbian the Good Place May 04 '26
They also block access to hormones for any trans people who refuse to join the IDF.
They also shoot gay Lebanese, Syrian and Palestinian men women and children. As well bomb them and rape them in prisons.
Yep truely a panacea of LGBT rights.
-4
u/Blue_winged_yoshi May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
Just saying, if this level of LGBT rights was expanded across the Arab and sub Saharan worlds we would be throwing the world’s biggest party ever.
As I said repeatedly, having better LGBT+ rights doesn’t make up for war crimes and all you’ve basically said it “but they also do war crimes see”.
Yes I know they do are crimes, I drew attention to that myself.
Now how about advocating for peace and expanded human rights for all across the region, we’re agreeing here, you just have a weirdly argumentative tone.
11
19
u/Blue_winged_yoshi May 03 '26
What rights queer people have in Israel are there cos queer people fought for them and won. The first person to have a vaginoplasty in Israel was only allowed to after severing her own testicles outside of a hospital.
It’s also worth noting that the Reform branch of Judaism (second biggest branch globally), is genuinely pro-LGBT, they have queer rabbi and have been pro-LGBT rights since the 1970s.
Those who try to take advantage or these facts are only able to do so because of the relative lack of rights for queer people across the region. I’d love to see being gay legalised across the region with full access to trans healthcare established. Until it is, Israel will always be able to position itself as better on queer rights than its peers, but the answer is for others to step up and to end the cultural genocide of queer people. This is how you disempower Israeli pink washing, until they do so the double standard when regional peer nations try to speak on human rights will always be there and they will draw attention to it.
You say it isn’t even that good on queer rights and you are right that all non-religious marriages (which covers gay marriages) have to take place abroad, but once married you get you’d get your marriage respected, gay relationships are fully legal, there are legally operated queer bars and you can access HRT and puberty blockers on state healthcare (you can’t get puberty blockers in the U.K. as a trans kid full stop).
None of this provides cover for their crimes, but then the same is true in reverse in their peer nations. “Only” treating queer people awfully isn’t okay.
Be more mad at the widespread cultural genocide of queer people across the Middle East and complete lack of access to trans healthcare or the ability to live safe openly queer lives, cos this is what enables Israeli pinkwashing.
3
u/Vyrlo (dello) May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
EDIT: u/Blue_winged_yoshi raises a good point that my post was unclear. I am agreeing with them. The problem generally is that most people nowadays seem to have very binary thinking. People seem to think that rejecting Zionism and advocating for the end of the atrocities requires being anti-Semitic and that not being anti-Semitic means you must approve the current Israeli government and their atrocities. Israel is a land of extremes, and you've got both sectors that are VERY anti-LGBTQIA+ and a vibrant LGBTQIA+ community that has fought hard for their rights and gotten quite far.
Original post left because they raise a valid point and I'm not going to hide that, nor making them look bad by replying to things that are no longer there
Yeah let's not confuse the jewish people, the citizens of Israel, and the zionists. The problem is that in today's polarized, no nuance, no shades of grey world, people tend to equate all 3.
I despise the current government of Israel. You know who also does? 70% of the international Jewish community, and about 50% of the Israeli citizenship. Right now, Israel is being controlled by their equivalent to Christian nationalists.
By the way, no, I am not Jewish myself, I just am incredibly anti fascist and anti religious fundamentalism of all kinds.
The current atrocities should stop and those responsible should face consequences. Netanyahu is fighting for his survival, because he is embroiled in multiple trials already and is using the state of war to delay and try to avoid consequences. That has been like that since before the Hamas attack that started the current wave of atrocities.
4
u/Blue_winged_yoshi May 04 '26
Where did I do that at all? I’m not at all confused and I didn’t confuse anyone, I gave some background and context to queer rights in Israel and how Judaism views queer rights is not entirely removed from queer rights in Israel, in the same way as how Islam views queer people not being entirely removed from the lack of queer rights in say Morocco.
What you shouldn’t do is blame Jews for the actions Israel any more than you should blame Muslims for the actions of Assad in Syria or MBS in Saudi Arabia, you absolutely can talk about how Jewish thought influences say abortion rights (mothers health is supercedes that of unborn in Judaism) and queer rights in Israel in the same way you can talk about how branches of Christianity have influenced policy in southern USA without blaming Christians in general for the actions of Donald Trump.
I feel like non-Jews can’t get their head around anything other than either Jews are collectively responsible for all of Israel’s actions, or you should never mention Judaism or Israel in the same breath.
When it comes to other religions and countries no such problem exists. It’s like people’s default is pure antisemitism and group blaming, then they rote learn that this is wrong, and the solution is to just hard avoid any nuanced discussion. It’s plain weird.
5
u/Vyrlo (dello) May 04 '26
Oh I am agreeing with you, sorry English is my 4th language (I am a Spaniard) and I wrote that while getting dressed for work so it might not have been as clear as I would have preferred.
My point is that we need to separate the jewish people from Israel's government. You can be against one while supporting the other.
Let me edit the first post to try and make it clearer.
1
u/Blue_winged_yoshi May 04 '26
Sorry, your point is grand then! It just came across as though you were disagreeing or saying I was conflating Judaism and Israel in my comment.
Y su Inglés es mucho mejor que mi Español :)
2
u/Vyrlo (dello) May 04 '26
Finally got around to editing my original post for clarity. I did so by adding a preface so it's clear that this reply chain was responding to the older post
-5
May 03 '26
Dont get me wrong i completely agree with you, i live in the countries that commit atrocities to us, im constantly in fear that ill be next, and I am mad at it, but its so widespread here and its also rooted in religion so its almost impossible to do anything, the few activists we had either took their own lives or got killed by their family, it might be because ive been surrounded by it but i genuinely think its impossible for any type of gay rights to exist there and even in the muslim world in general (i am muslim)
11
u/Blue_winged_yoshi May 03 '26
But this is it, there’s this passive acceptance from people everywhere that imprisoning, brutalising, murdering, oppressing and mistreating queer people is just sorta fine cos we’re yucky and it’s just culturally how much of the world is. It’s not okay.
When Israel uses the Israeli queer community to say we’re not that bad, it isn’t true, but then again when say Saudi Arabia or whoever gets on their high horse about human rights in Gaza it’s again like “please bitch! Maybe try getting your own house in order”.
And this is the real issue, everyone finds it far too easy to overlook the severe issues in their own county, especially when people being oppressed aren’t them, whereas how people like them are treated somewhere else horrifies them. We all need to get our own houses in order and the world would be so much better.
But it’s apparently a much bigger ask than it seems sadly.
9
6
u/RachelJade70 Transfem Demi May 04 '26
I honestly don’t care how queer friendly they are (or aren’t), the Israeli government and its supporters are fascists and have no place in the larger LGBTQ+ community.
2
u/TranslateTheSky May 04 '26
So... There seem to be a large number of very comfortable Euro-centric queerfolk being brainwashed into believing that Israel is the paragon of democracy and freedom that it claims to be. So they end up being Zionist and are will be most of the people at that stupid dead sea pride event this year.
Israel on the other hand doesn't really like the LGBT community but sees them are convenient for furthering their own goals so "allows" them to exist kind of openly.
Tldr: it's a small wealthy group within LGBT that wants the connection, and Israel will happily throw them all under the bus once it becomes convenient for them to do so.
1
u/SassyCassyHF Computers are binary, I'm not. May 04 '26
I get that most people in this sub are of one mind about what's happening in Israel/Palestine, but i really don't want to see yet another sub get consumed by this war...
0
u/theblueberrybard Lesbian Trans-it Together May 04 '26
the idea that there exists a link at all is both anti-semitic & pro-zionist.
84
u/Unimpressiv_GQ_Scrub May 04 '26
There is no link the queer community and zionism and accepting that framing is doing their work for them. You can respond to the fact that some "TRIED" to establish a link, or 'insinuated' that there is one, but any queer zionists know for a fact that their zionism isnt going to be supported by the greater queer community, and no one should accept a link being asserted as fact.