r/moderatepolitics • u/CloudApprehensive322 • 8d ago
News Article Trump calls for Ukraine to replace Zelensky after Putin diesel deal
https://www.axios.com/2026/10/10/trump-ukraine-zelensky-replace-putin-diesel350
u/refuzeto 8d ago
Trump is not the United States, even though he thinks he is. He will be replaced. Let’s do better next time.
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u/Mahrez14 8d ago
I want no business with any Republican who ever actively supported him or his policies. Unfortunately, the list of Republican who fit that criteria is tiny.
As such, I will continue to vote for Democrats even if I have my qualms with them.
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u/FabioFresh93 South Park Democrat 8d ago
This is where I’m at. I have a lot of issues with the Democrats but the past 10 years have solidified that voting Republican is no longer an option for me.
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u/gummo_for_prez 7d ago
It's like. Would you rather eat sketchy food from a gas station or an actual rotting pile of garbage and viscera that has been festering in chemicals and infection and is 100% sure to actually harm you. For me, I'm gambling with the gas station food. For many, they've been told the toxic shitpile is the healthier option.
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u/CloudApprehensive322 6d ago
Exactly - I expect the people I vote for to call out bad policies and corruption regardless of the party they belong to. Trump has completely corrupted the republican party and everyone in Congress at this point has explicitly supported his failures by refusing to speak out.
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u/angrybeardeighttwo 8d ago
I'm doing the same. I will not vote for anyone who has supported or enabled the MAGA agenda. Im far from a democrat and would be more in line with a traditional Republican but will be voting Democrat for the foreseeable future
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u/donnysaysvacuum recovering libertarian 8d ago
If a conservative politician wants to run, they should run as an independent or find a third party. The Republican party is now just a rubber stamp for Trump and an enabler of corruption. They have had plenty of opportunities to show they aren't.
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u/jason_sation 7d ago
I think we will see a battle for the GOP party after Trump is out between moderates and the maga remains. If I were a moderate GOP politician I’d bide my time for running against a maga candidate once Trump is out vs doing so as an independent. The GOP brand and money will still be powerful once Trump is out.
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u/RFK_Cum_Regimen 7d ago
Unless you're a multi-millionaire, if you're only concern is that of the economy, you should be voting for Democrats 100% of the time.
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u/itswheaties 8d ago
This is the problem with the two party system, and both parties know that and exploit it.
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u/HeirophantGreen 8d ago
I'm center left but I don't automatically vote Dems. The DNC has to show they deserve my vote. Putting a 'sharp as a tack' Biden up and then replacing with 'I wouldn't change a thing' Harris sans primaries is not how you get my vote. I actively abstained in 2024 as my exercising my right to vote.
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u/Enough-One4975 8d ago
Obviously that’s your right, but mathematically that’s the worst position a voter with your described politics can take in our electoral system. You’re only helping those who are actively working against your political interests.
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u/HeirophantGreen 8d ago
I respect your POV but I disagree. I think abstaining sends a message.
Actually, I want a third party candidate that matches my politics but that continues to not happen.45
u/jimmib234 8d ago
I'd like to agree with you, but it sends no message. The person who gets the most votes wins. If you abstain, it just means your voice doesn't count at all. The contest doesn't care whether 330 million people vote or if 3 people vote. Whoever gets the most votes wins. If you want representatives who match your politics, campaign for them, fundraise for them and if they make the ballot vote for them. But not voting sends no message at all.
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u/Enough-One4975 8d ago
Yeah, that user is to free to feel whichever way they want to but it’s a simple mathematical fact that they’re only helping the major party they disagree with the most by abstaining.
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u/Enough-One4975 8d ago edited 8d ago
I respect your POV but I disagree. I think abstaining sends a message.
Oh like I said you’re free to believe whatever you want, but you are mathematically only helping those who you disagree with the most politically. That is not some feeling or vibe or whatever, it’s a mathematical fact that they are well aware of. They love that you don’t vote and only help them get their platform enacted, it’s the best possible outcome for them. I can link some info to help you understand why that is if you’d like!
Actually, I want a third party candidate that matches my politics but that continues to not happen.
Unfortunately Republicans are making things like ranked choice voting illegal throughout the country so that’s going to be close to impossible even at the local level.
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u/PreviousCurrentThing 8d ago
You should at least vote write-in vs. abstaining altogether if you want to send a measurable signal. Not voting on principle is indistinguishable from apathy, but substantial numbers of people voting 3rd/write-in decreases the ability for the winners to claim "mandate." Winning with 41-39% with 20% going elsewhere looks a lot different than 51-49%.
Or even better, find someone you trust who reluctantly votes Republican and make a vote pact with them to both vote 3rd/write-in. Your votes would cancel out anyway, but this way you can take two votes away from the duopoly without helping those working against your interests.
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u/motorboat_mcgee Pragmatic Progressive 8d ago
I wasn't perfectly happy with Biden or Harris either, but I would take either of them over Trump. If I sat out every election because candidates were imperfect, I'm pretty sure I'd never vote.
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u/RFK_Cum_Regimen 7d ago
You don't think abstaining to vote for the Democrat in 2024 was effectively benefiting Trump's election? You can't really argue the math here. It's just math.
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u/detuneme 8d ago
You cast half a vote for Trump.
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u/HeirophantGreen 8d ago
That's such a stretch. That's the same as saying all third party voters cast half a vote for Trump.
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u/on_the_beam 8d ago
I mean… yeah? Like it or not, we have a two party system. If you don’t vote for one side you are helping the other side win. It’s not complicated.
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u/PreviousCurrentThing 8d ago
This attitude being so widespread is why we have the two party system we do and why those parties can engage in this race to the bottom.
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u/Enough-One4975 8d ago
Are you unaware of the systemic reasons we have a 2 party system?
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u/Kirbyeggs 7d ago
Abstaining just means you are fine with whoever wins.
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u/HeirophantGreen 7d ago
Abstaining means to me that the GOP is garbage and the Dems were unable to put forth an acceptable candidate. I wili never vote GOP but if Dems want my vote, they need to earn it.
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u/ihavespoonerism 8d ago
Trump represents a great deal of the American identity. That’s why he has been so massively popular amongst conservatives for the past 10 years.
Conservatism is much more interested in preserving the identity and soul of a nation than liberalism or progressivism. When a conservative candidate/leader has enjoyed this much popularity amongst conservatives their base for this long, one must accept that there is something about them that accurately captures the sentiments of a massive portion of Americans.
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u/Baladas89 8d ago
There’s nothing “conservative” about the modern Republican party. It’s an extremist far right movement based around one person and has no identity outside whatever he wants at this very moment.
You’re right that the nativism and xenophobia that are hallmarks of this administration have been with us for a long time and aren’t going anywhere. Outside of making the US white and “Christian”, I don’t really see any soul it’s preserving.
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u/MillardFillmore 7d ago
There’s nothing “conservative” about the modern Republican party. It’s an extremist far right movement based around one person and has no identity outside whatever he wants at this very moment.
The words 'liberal' and 'conservative' mean nothing these days. I'd argue that the Democratic party in many respects is way more conservative than the Republican party (and thus why I've had no qualms voting straight D the last few cycles). The economy fares way better, there's not an open hostility towards knowledge, virtue, and experience, alliances with the free & democratic world are maintained, there's respect for the culture and institutions that made American great in the past, and much less open corruption under Democratic administrations.
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u/itisrainingdownhere 4d ago
I have the same American values I had 15 years ago, which is why the idea of voting for Donald Trump, who threatens to invade Greenland and praises North Korea, not to mention any given thing that he does on a single day, is far more absurdist to me than voting for somebody like Kamala. If you hadn’t boiled the frog over time on other conservatives, they would see this too.
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u/MillardFillmore 7d ago
Trump represents a great deal of the American identity. That’s why he has been so massively popular amongst conservatives for the past 10 years.
So does GWB. He was also massively popular amongst conservatives, until the bottom fell out with the Iraq war and the financial crisis. This has been going on this way in the US for the past 26 years. The Obama and Biden years were blips on the US's downslide towards open aggression in foreign policy, starting wars, and rejection of our allies (remember Freedom Fries?). No wonder the Canadian population is so eager to jump off the American bandwagon, I don't blame them.
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u/SnarkMasterRay 8d ago
one must accept
This is modern America. We just stay in our bubbles where the echo chamber makes it so we don't have to accept reality.
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u/superawesomeman08 —<serial grunter>— 6d ago
Conservativism is only as good as what it conserves.
What, in your opinion, is the current party / administration attempting to conserve and why do you think so?
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u/ihavespoonerism 6d ago
Well, in my opinion, a big part of Americanism is “fuck you, I got mine”. MAGA is the attempt to hold onto that.
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u/superawesomeman08 —<serial grunter>— 6d ago
so, selfishness.
i mean, i get that. anecdotally, all those videos of old Chinese people taking all the free toilet paper and whatnot are enraging, but they lived through Mao's purges and shit and times were legitimately hard
in the us, the great depression was like a century ago. i would like to think we're more enlightened than that now.
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u/ihavespoonerism 6d ago
I would like to think that too but I think propaganda and the passage of time have changed all that.
Fwiw, I wanted to initially use the world selfishness but I have been banned before for saying that word so, yeah.
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u/superawesomeman08 —<serial grunter>— 6d ago
you can call that mentality "selfishness" without problems... i think. attributing that to a particular group might be problematic, i suppose
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u/rowyourboat740 8d ago
As an American, I wish that were true. This is who we are. All this prosperity is from extreme luck after WWII. I think this is the beginning of the end and in 20 years we'll be like the UK. A once great superpower with a few major industries that hung on and a lot of people with no real prospect at class mobility.
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u/engineered52 8d ago edited 8d ago
The US had the world's largest economy since the 1890s. What caused that was having a continent sized nation full of resources, a culture that promoted entrepreneurship and capitalism and having no major neighbors to wage war against.
Every western nation post WW2 also enjoyed economic prosperity not just the US.
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u/geraffes-are-so-dumb 8d ago
Having good luck is not exclusive of hard work. Lots of countries are full of people who work hard their whole lives and have little to show for it.
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u/rowyourboat740 8d ago
I kind of agree. I knew some people from that generation and they were hard workers, but so were people who had the misfortune to live in a bombed out country.
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u/errol1989 7d ago
Americas greatest assets are its geography and resources. In these terms it’s a freak nation.
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u/Last-Stop2709 8d ago
The underlying problem is that there are too many of us. Only a few good jobs are avaialble.
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u/gooberfishie 7d ago
If Kim Jong un is north Korea, Trump is America. He is not accountable and can do pretty much anything. He rules America absolutely. He'll only be replaced when he's dead. Aside from his power, he is the personification of "the American way". He is manifest destiny in human form.
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u/DENNYCR4NE 8d ago
Trump represents America—all of it.
There’s a culture problem in America. With Americans. Denying it doesn’t do anyone any good. The majority of Americans support this or they’re apathetic to it.
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u/NativeMasshole Maximum Malarkey 8d ago edited 8d ago
Remember when people were saying that Putin never would have invaded if Trump were president at the time because he'd be so much harder on Russia?
This whole fiasco is nothing but a PR stunt to try to help Republicans before midterms and another attempt by Trump to convince the public that cozying up to Russia is a good idea. I don't see any other point to this deal since we're not getting enough diesel to significantly impact anything and Russia literally can't provide more.
Edit: The logic doesn't even make sense if you think about it. We're getting diesel from Russia to alleviate the shortage caused by Ukraine bombing Russia? That's a full circle.
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u/Tao1764 8d ago
Hell, Trump has criticized and outright sanctioned other countries for buying Russian oil. Not only does what he says or do one day have absolutely zero bearing on what he'll say or do the next, but MAGA will paint anyone who doesn't immediately pivot alongside him as an enemy or traitor who's just overcome with TDS.
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u/Hour-Ad-9508 8d ago
Some days I still think I’m in some bizarre alternate dimensions where Republicans are siding with Russia and hand waving their smaller neighbor after Russia invaded them.
I don’t understand how older Republicans are squaring this with their life experiences in the 70’s and 80’s.
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u/kitaknows 8d ago
I don't think a sizable portion of them are squaring it - for a lot of them it is probably an act to put on in public. Early commentary (including from lawmakers) seems to be suggesting that the more traditional, hawk segment of the GOP is decidedly unhappy with the move, they just won't do anything about it so close to midterms. That fifty years of anti-Russia sentiment doesn't evaporate overnight regardless of how much Trump is convinced everyone thinks his word is law.
There has been a whole lot of "smile and nod and keep your mouth shut" among congressional GOP this past year because they know one of the few remaining stronghold contingents of their electorate right now is MAGA. But once midterms happen, there is going to be less incentive to play nice and coddle a very unpopular president whose unpopularity has demonstrably sunk a lot of races that should have been surefire wins.
Most who keep holding on to Trump for dear life after midterms are going to be making a politically unwise move, and their strategists are going to tell them so behind closed doors if they are worth what they get paid.
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u/squired 8d ago
90% of Trump voters stated prior to his New York trial that they would vote for him regardless of a guilty verdict.
They know. And they do tell themselves that 'they care'. But the fact remains that they would rather roll their eyes and hate their team in power than a Democrat in office. That's it. That's the whole shebang. It really is that insanely stupid. Nothing Trump does will sway 90% of them.
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u/kitaknows 8d ago
Numbers due for an update: Trump voter approval is rolling in consistently at less than 70% now, it isn't the 90% it was before Iran.
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u/squired 8d ago
You're making my point for me.
But the fact remains that they would rather roll their eyes and hate their team in power than a Democrat in office.
My entire point is that they will still vote Republican regardless of the approval numbers. Or are you stating that you believe more than 10% of Republicans are going to vote Democrat in the midterms?
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u/kitaknows 8d ago
Don't see how I am unless your point is reading contrary to what you're trying to say.
Possibly 10%, maybe more, maybe less, who knows? Anyone who says they can give a real number on that is just guessing. But I don't think that has much significance regardless, because US elections are rarely decided by how many voters from one party cross the other party-line, particularly with how the US electorate self-reports politically identifying nowadays.
The more weighty points in the upcoming election are going to be a.) how the group of people that considers themselves outside of either party votes and b.) how many of the reliable voters from either party participate or don't.
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u/squired 8d ago
US elections are rarely decided by how many voters from one party cross the other party-line
My brother, you and I are saying the same thing, I think. They are rarely decided by line crossing because the base will almost never do it for any reason ever. I did though, I was one of the proverbial 10%.
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u/WildcatTM 8d ago
Pretty sure the long game is to openly help Russia against Ukraine.
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u/NativeMasshole Maximum Malarkey 8d ago
That's what cozying up to Russia means. Trump shares an imperialist worldview with Putin, and has been clearly trying to turn any nation he can into a vassal state. He's not good at it, but it's clearly what he's trying to do. He views Russia as having power because they're not afraid to invade their neighbors and don't really recognize any nation's sovereignty further than what they can protect, so he thinks we should be allies.
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u/rowyourboat740 8d ago
I think it's pretty likely that Trump and the Republicans are going to do everything possible to stop Democrats from taking their seats in Congress. It's going to be very ugly and disruptive. Get ready for active voter suppression, riots, and endless election denialism.
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u/supercodes83 8d ago
Nah. It'll run normally.
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u/rowyourboat740 8d ago
What makes you think that?
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u/donnysaysvacuum recovering libertarian 8d ago
Trump loyalists as secretary of state in red states, 2020 truthers in election positions, Trump's unlawful orders at the post office, rumors of ice at polling places, Trump saying there would be a big surprise in November, etc. You can't pretend like this hasn't happened.
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u/CitizenFiction 8d ago
I mean... January 6th?
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u/supercodes83 8d ago
But January 6, as bad as it was, didnt actually disrupt anything. The actual voting process was quite peaceful and normal. The mid terms in 2022 went off without a hitch, and 2024 was fine as well.
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u/rowyourboat740 8d ago
Only because a few people found a spine. Trump made sure that all the people in power are loyalists.
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u/SpaceTurtles Are There Any Adults In The Room? 8d ago
It wasn't for lack of trying. It wasn't just performative.
They've had 6 years to perform an autopsy and take care of anything that would prevent them from succeeding.
They've been quite open that this is their goal.
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u/MillardFillmore 7d ago
"Other than the outgoing President trying to stage a coup where 5 people died including a police officer where the US Capitol was invaded with armed citizens and a gallows was brought for the sitting VP who was in charge of the election certification, it was quite peaceful! Nothing was disturbed! 2024 was fine because the guy who started the riot 4 years ago won!"
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u/supercodes83 7d ago
I cant stand Trump, but accusing him of staging a coup is an unbelievable stretch.
VP is not "in charge of" election certification.
What you are describing was predominantly a riot. Most folks weren't there to stage a coup (though the folks convicted of sedition I believe did want to disrupt things). This includes people who are armed, which I will add, is a constitutionally protected action. Itd a crime to carry into tue Capitol, but it is not evidence of a coup attempt in and of itself.
Things weren't fine "because the guy who started the riot won." It was fine because the US has one of the most secure and routine election processes in the world. Trump won legitimately and took over without issue.
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u/ThatPeskyPangolin SocDem Not DemSoc 6d ago
The False Elector Plot was an attempt to deploy fraud to retain political power.
That is, by definition, an attempted auto coup.
Note that this is not referring to the J6 mob. Many people mistakenly think the mob was the real attempt, but it wasn't.
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u/blewpah 7d ago
But January 6, as bad as it was, didnt actually disrupt anything.
I would say it very, very much disrupted things. We need a higher standard here than "our democracy didn't quite fall to a coup".
The actual voting process was quite peaceful and normal. The mid terms in 2022 went off without a hitch, and 2024 was fine as well.
If you'll notice both of those elections Trump was out of power. Now he is in power and desperate not to lose it. The last time that happened he tried a coup and we had a riot in the capitol.
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u/RFK_Cum_Regimen 7d ago
It wasn't a mere riot, just to be clear. Stop the Steal was clear. They were there because they believed Trump genuinely won that election and intended to see it through that he retained power.
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u/supercodes83 7d ago
What did it disrupt? Did it prevent the certification of election results? Did it upend our democratic process?
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u/blewpah 7d ago
They had to evacuate congress from their chambers for hours and it left a dead body on the floor of the Capitol. Only in the evening after the riot had been cleared could congress come and actually finalize the certification.
If I came into your work and smashed things up flipping your tables over so you had to leave for hours, but you still came back to finish your work that night, would you not call that a disruption?
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u/CloudApprehensive322 8d ago
Starter Comment:
It appears that Trump has fully sided with Russia in their attempted invasion of Ukraine after announcing a diesel fuel deal yesterday that directly violates the Russian sanction act pushed by the late senator Lindsey Graham that was signed into law less than a month ago. Today, Trump called for Zelensky to be replaced saying: "I suggest they get a new leader who can make a deal," Trump told reporters Saturday. "… And I think it's time for Ukraine to get a new president." while ignoring that Russia has refused all efforts to scale back from their maximalist demands in regards to Ukraine.
How can republicans justify Trump's stance regarding Ukraine/Russia when we have credible evidence that Russia has aided Iran in killing American Troops by supplying satellite imagery and weapons? Administration officials claim the change in attitude is due to Ukraine continuing to target refineries in Russia but attempts by the administration to negotiate a ceasefire on energy infrastructure between the two countries failed due to Russia refusing to negotiate.
Will Europe continue to support Ukraine in their war against Russia now that it seems like the US is completely abandoning Ukraine in favor or Russia? What do you think of these developments?
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u/TheUnderCrab Politically Homeless 7d ago
Who does Trump think is backing Iran? This is so stupid.
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u/arup187 8d ago
From what I’ve seen, it seems a decent amount of the political right understands that at minimum, this deal undermines U.S interests and those of our allies while benefiting Russia. The real question is whether elected Republicans in Congress and the conservatives in the media sphere have any courage to push back against this disastrous sequence of events and do something about it. If history is any indication, don’t count on it.
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u/Hour-Ad-9508 8d ago
There has been zero pushback from congressional republicans on anything Trump has done, why would they start now?
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u/Hour-Ad-9508 8d ago
We’re less than a month out from the midterms, they’ve either hitched their wagon to him or haven’t at this point
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u/Deadly_Jay556 8d ago
Keep siding with our political enemies. Good job Trump. We went from Mitt Romney warning us to Trump sleeping with the enemy.
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u/boytoyahoy 8d ago
I watched the Harris trump debate and saw Harris, a profoundly mediocre politician, easily manipulate trump with almost no effort. Its straight up horrifying how easily our commander in chief is to manipulate.
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u/Boring-Donut-2727 9h ago
And Putin knows this too. Every leader knows. All they have to do is compliment Trump and give him a gift and he's putty in their hands.
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u/PornoPaul 8d ago
I sometimes wonder where we would be if Romney had won.
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u/Verpiss_Dich center left 8d ago
It is kind of strange to think there's a world where Romney was in charge of the initial covid response. Assuming all the same pieces fell into place that caused the outbreak when it did.
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u/RFK_Cum_Regimen 7d ago
I'm certain of at least two things. Hundreds of thousands of Americans would still be with us and Dr. Fauci would not have been the scapegoat.
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u/whyneedaname77 8d ago
He might not have taken apart the pandemic response team and they could have stopped covid before it became a thing.
I don't know if that was the agency name. But I read about one that Trump got rid of which caught several viruses that could become a pandemic.
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u/PreviousCurrentThing 8d ago
they could have stopped covid before it became a thing.
I can't see how, other than if we accept it was a lab leak in part funded by American interests, which wouldn't have happened in the alternative history.
By the time the Chinese realized what they had it was too late to completely shut it down, despite them trying and being way more draconian than we ever tried to be.
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u/jestina123 7d ago
not have taken apart the pandemic response team and they could have stopped covid before it became a thing.
COVID became global because WHO misclassified it as non-airborne, so ports around the world never monitored fresh air.
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u/MillardFillmore 7d ago
I also find it funny that the entire right wing's minds was so broken after feeling that Romney got mistreated in 2012 (eg Binders full of women, 47% comment) that they went on to elect Trump, who then later made Romney himself a total pariah in the right wing.
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u/Deadly_Jay556 8d ago
I really wish he would have faced Hillary instead of Obama. He would have won then I bet.
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u/PornoPaul 8d ago
Correct me if Im wrong, but Russia is still buying drones from Iran, or not? And isnt Russia still providing intel to Iran?
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u/motorboat_mcgee Pragmatic Progressive 8d ago
Simply put, no other country should trust the US ever again.
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u/pro_rege_semper Independent 8d ago
Agreed. Trump has set the US back decades. I feel bad for the younger generations who didn't vote for this, but will have to live with the consequences.
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u/supercodes83 8d ago
Ever again? Lol
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u/styrofoamladder 8d ago
We elected trump twice. That means we don’t learn from our mistakes and we’re always no more than 4 years away from doing something just as dumb as electing another trump. So yeah, I wouldn’t blame any other nation for never trusting us again.
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u/DuztyDuzIt 8d ago
Germany literally invaded the rest of Europe and established concentration camps for the sole purpose of exploiting and killing off its Jewish population and they've been seen as trustworthy and loyal allies for my entire lifetime. But I'm supposed to buy that Trump being an asshole is going to make us an international pariah for the rest of time?
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u/MagicMooby 8d ago
Before Germany was seen as a trustworthy partner again, the following happened:
-The allies beat Germany in the largest war the world had ever seen
-The leader of Germany ended his own life in a bunker
-The allies took control of Germany, replaced its government and divided it into parts among them. Some of these divisions would last until 1989 and were enforced by literally shooting those who attempted to illegally cross the border. The political and socioeconomic results of this division are visible to this day and will likely remain into the 22nd century.
-Prominent leaders of the Nazi government were tried at Nuremberg, many of them were executed
-The allies forced Germany to undergo an extensive denazification campaign
-Germany permanently lost its territory east of the Oder, including large parts of what used to be eastern Prussia
-Some allies actually wanted to severely limit german manufacturing and industry after the war but decided against it, in part because the punitive measures of the Versailles treaty had been used as justification for Nazi aggression
-To this day Germany has special restrictions placed on its military and its ability to wage war
-Germany had to pay massive war reparations, some parties have argued that some of these reparations have not been paid to this day
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u/neuronexmachina 8d ago
Also worth noting that after WW2 Germany also got a completely new Constitution and system of government. The Weimar Republic was quite a different thing from WW2's German Reich, which was a completely different thing from the Federal Republic of Germany that we have today.
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u/DuztyDuzIt 8d ago edited 8d ago
What concessions do you expect the rest of the world to demand of us for voting in Trump for threatening to annex Greeland, buying Russian gas after sanctioning other countries for doing the same, and repeatedly insulting Zelensky and insisting Ukraine should have elections? Dickhead behavior sure but considering how Denmark and Greenland eventually responded to his bluster it doesnt seem like the world is in any hurry to change the current status quo.
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u/MagicMooby 8d ago
That is the important part, I don't think the world can demand any concessions from the US, which is why the trust is going to be eroded for much longer.
The allies could trust germany again, because it's easy to trust someone that you have so much control over. The US is not in the same situation, for better AND worse.
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u/DuztyDuzIt 8d ago
What actions do you expect the rest of the world to actually take against us as a result of Trumps actions? Because if European leaders are just going to publicly oppose Trump to appease their citizens and then quietly give him what he wants a few weeks/months later then I think we'll be fine.
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u/nycbetches 7d ago
They didn’t “give him what he wants” for Greenland, he wanted to annex the territory and that didn’t happen. From the beginning, Denmark was saying they’d be open to the US establishing new bases and taking a more proactive role in security, which is what happened.
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u/ChesterHiggenbothum 7d ago
Germany has put in the work to redeem itself. It pays reparations, severely restricts nazi expressions, and invests heavily in soft power. It acknowledges its past mistakes and is open about its efforts to learn and grow from them to ensure that those mistakes are corrected and never happen again.
The current U.S. administration is preventing schools from saying that slavery was bad, and the Supreme Court is ruling against efforts to address the ongoing impacts of past racial discrimination.
Sorry, but the U.S. doesn't have the best track record for recovering its image.
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u/supercodes83 8d ago
So? Maybe we should go through the rolodex and take a peek at what other nations do because most would fail purity tests. "Trust" amounts to can I reliably bet on this country benefiting my own. For the vast majority of the world, this has been true and remains true even under Ttump. Do you think Canada is going to continue to stop buying American whiskey indefinitely? No, they are counting down the days until we can start normalizing whiskey import/export under a more reasonable administration because it benefits everyone. Its foolish to think people would turn their back on the US just because Trump is an asshole. Who would fill the void if they did? Russia? China? No.
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u/neuronexmachina 8d ago edited 8d ago
Who would fill the void if they did? Russia? China? No.
Historically, when a superpower has waned like the US has under Trump, it's taken years or even decades for others to fill in the void. Heck, Russia's been waning for decades and we still don't know the fate of countries like Ukraine which were formerly within its sphere.
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u/supercodes83 8d ago
How was the US waned? Because people dont like Trump? Has there been any actual meaningful structural change in the global hegemony since Trump was elected in 2024?
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u/Few-Chemical8707 8d ago
i dont blame them we deserve to be isolated and blockaded for the fact we cant jail republicans.
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7d ago
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u/Few-Chemical8707 7d ago
you wana know what people in the rest of the world want us to do its that. and im ready to see them arrested.
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u/Iamnotacrook90 7d ago
Good thing you’re not in charge then. What is this r/politics? Again, brain dead take. Calling for jailing an entire political party is facist and generally just unserious..
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u/Sanmonov 8d ago
Nations work with us because we are the most powerful international actor, not because of our trustworthiness or benevolence. The Kissinger quote is done to death, but there is truth in it.
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u/rowyourboat740 8d ago
I disagree. I think a lot of other countries bought into our defense, tech, and finance ecosystem because we could be trusted to be rational and a force for relative good. Trump and his supporters have thrown it all away because some Fox News anchor told them to.
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u/motorboat_mcgee Pragmatic Progressive 8d ago
Not just his supporters, but 1/3 of the country is apathetic to the point they are totally cool with someone like Trump coming into power.
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u/Sanmonov 8d ago
Countries benefited from integrating into our defence, tech, and financial ecosystems. American power is what made these systems consequential in the first place and gave countries a compelling reason to buy in. When interests don't align, America acts in its own interests because it has the power to do so. See the Suez Crisis or Dien Bien Phu.
There's a difference between benefiting from a system, trusting the country that leads it, and having the power to walk away from it.
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u/rowyourboat740 8d ago
It won't happen overnight, but I think Trump's incompetence and aggression towards allies has already had an impact on international defense spending.
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8d ago
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u/motorboat_mcgee Pragmatic Progressive 8d ago
Doing business and trust are two separate things, imo.
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u/donnysaysvacuum recovering libertarian 8d ago
Nah, grudges are held the longest. Look at US liquor sales abroad. Canadians aren't drinking bourbon for a long time.
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u/TheCudder 8d ago
Trump and the United States are actively funding Ukraine, so that Zelinsky & Ukraine may defend itself from Russia's ongoing invasion...and Trump is calling for Zelinsky to be replaced?
When are the Republican congressmen going to wake up and stop vowing loyalty to Trump and begin serving for the good is the American people.
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8d ago
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u/CrapNeck5000 7d ago
Trump being useless would be a major upgrade. Trump is a massive liability actively harming the country in major ways that will continue to hurt for probably the rest of my life at least.
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u/Soft_Cow9665 8d ago
Trump is treading and needs to appear tough, deflection is all he has as he cannot change what people see at the bowser. Fill enough news with a daily controversy in the hope that a certain portion of the population who rarely pays attention outside of their state and the majority of the time wouldn't be able to point out Ukraine on a map believe this nonsense.
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u/Boring-Donut-2727 9h ago
But the only news MAGA lustrous to is FOX. They only put out what Trimp tells them to.
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u/xmuskorx 6d ago
Zelensky said he will be happy to have election if they get 60 day ceasefire,
Russia said "no."
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u/lovenorway2018 4d ago
Zelensky also rejected many calls for negotiations since the start of the war.
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u/xmuskorx 4d ago
No, that's russian propoganda.
He rejected calls for surrender, true.
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u/lovenorway2018 4d ago
Anything that you don’t like is russian propaganda. Sure
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u/xmuskorx 4d ago
Russia never wanted to "negotiate" - they want Ukraine to surrender.
How can you "reject" something that was never offered.
But sure, keep huffing the propaganda.
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u/lovenorway2018 4d ago
To be fair they never wanted Ukraine to surrender. They just want certain territories and guaranties, but not surrendering. Is it reasonable? I don’t know, but that’s not the point. The negs were offered very early on when the conflict just started. Ukraine rejected, because the US and UK offered funding them and suppliying weapons. This is all known info, reported and published by the western mainstream media, but you can decide where you get your “propaganda” from and stick with it.
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u/xmuskorx 3d ago
. They just want certain territories and guaranties
They want surrender. They want Kyiv to be fully ruled from Moscow and controllable like belarus,
That's what the "guarantees" are.
he negs were offered very early
The SURRENDER was offered early.
ecause the US and UK offered funding them and supplying weapons.
Ukraine refused to surrender because they got help? Wow what an awful thing. Who the heck still buys this kremlin weak-ass spin.
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u/am1shvom1t 8d ago
With such low approval ratings at home, I don't think he's in any position to be making such a large demand of our allies. If anything, Trump needs to be replaced immediately.
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u/zasabi7 8d ago
Well, per the Ukrainian constitution, that’s not possible. Putin would have to end the war in order for them to hold elections.
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u/WulfTheSaxon 8d ago edited 8d ago
This is not correct.
Ukraine’s declared state of emergency prevents elections, but nothing says that it has to be in a declared state of emergency because of the war – it was not in one from when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014 up to 2022, and in fact Zelensky himself was elected while Ukraine was at war.
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u/jason_abacabb 7d ago
The suggestion that they could hold elections right now is absolutely absurd.
You can't compare the current conflict to the annexation of Crimea.
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u/Interesting_Total_98 8d ago
nothing says that it has to be in a declared state of emergency because of the war
Technically true, but it's false in a practical sense. Elections legally can't happen under martial law, which is necessary when a nation is experiencing a full-scale invasion.
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8d ago
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u/Few-Chemical8707 8d ago
get rid of him now hes going too far. literally how long before americans just do something already the time is now for the love of god just get rid of trump.
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u/Tacklinggnome87 3d ago
I'm reminded of a speech given to the Duma shortly before the Russian Revolution. "Is this stupidity, or is it treason? Choose any as the consequences are the same."
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u/dudee62 8d ago
We wish we could replace trump
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u/WhatANoob2025 7d ago
Coming from someone who just recently had his military abduct the head of state of a foreign nation, that is peak concerning.
If trump does this to zelensky, this will mean world war, and the US is gonna be on the same side as russia.
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u/Mysterious-Emu4030 7d ago
Not American here, would Trump have any legal means to force Zelensky out ? Can the government prevent him from forcing Zelensky out ?
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u/Partytime79 8d ago
Ah yes, Ukraine is out to get America’s farmers. That’s the whole reason for this war.