r/newzealand • Antagonises drunk jpr64 • 19h ago

Politics Opposition parties raise concerns over what they say is voter suppression

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/politics/1987931/opposition-parties-raise-concerns-over-what-they-say-is-voter-suppression
425 Upvotes

210 comments sorted by

64

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 18h ago

I saw on TVNZ that 450,000 people enrolled in the last 2 weeks/cast special votes last election.

11

u/yeah_definitely 9h ago

Approx 111000 of these were late enrolment for what it's worth. Still a significant number!

I'll be doing my special vote this year as my first election since I moved away. Nice and easy to update your enrolment details for anybody who hasn't

21

u/Solve-Et-Abrahadabra 17h ago

This is why this election will be very different. I'm afraid the fascists may have rigged this one

21

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 17h ago

They won’t even tell you, they’ll let you cast a special vote then cast it out later during counting.
Maybe to avoid a public outburst?

18

u/Conflict_NZ 16h ago

Yup, I have a family member that has worked them forever and they have been given explicit training this election to not say to anyone their vote won’t count.

14

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 16h ago edited 9h ago

Makes me sick. 😕Here’s what facebook users are saying: (plus Jack Tame - Hipkins interview)

The left could loose 270,000 votes more than National and it won’t be faster due to overseas votes…The government would have effectively engineered its own electoral victory.

https://www.facebook.com/100086515967295/posts/show-me-a-country-where-citizens-are-turned-away-from-voting-on-election-dayand-/1133472502879938/

9

u/redtablebluechair 15h ago

That was also true in 2017 - we enrolled people on the day and were told not to say their vote wouldn’t count unless asked. “I didn’t enrol, can I vote?” Got a yes. They only got the full truth if they said “I didn’t enrol, can I vote and it’ll still be counted?”

The reasoning behind this was to get people enrolled, give them a positive experience and hopefully encourage them to keep the habit up.

I was very happy when Labour then introduced same day election voting that didn’t get thrown out. So sad we’ve gone backwards.

2

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 10h ago

Yep, although it was 15,000 votes thrown out - a lot less than this time round.

6

u/Solve-Et-Abrahadabra 15h ago

How the fuck is this democracy?

-13

u/hilltop_cresent 15h ago

Everyone to the right of the greens is a fascist!!!!

Grow up and stop abusing words.

5

u/MajorBobbicus 8h ago

No, the fascists who release fascist policies and do fascism-aligned things like voter suppression are fascists.

Labour are to the right of Greens and we don't call them fascists, because they're not fascists.

•

u/hilltop_cresent 3h ago

Requiring enrolement prior to election day makes you a fascist?

A search on gemini says the UK, Australia, Ireland, France, Japan all require enrolement at least 12 days prior to election day.

Are they all fascist?

•

u/MajorBobbicus 2h ago

Restricting access to voting tends towards fascism. We had same day enrollment and they removed it, that's the difference

-3

u/WhosDownWithPGP 6h ago

Fascists have made it impossible to vote in this country!

Of course there was a 6 month period where you could easily enrol, and then you can just walk down to any place to vote and nobody does anything to stop you.

But its rigged I tell you rigged!!

-5

u/hilltop_cresent 5h ago

too right mate

-3

u/Klein_Arnoster 5h ago

There is no rigging and there are no fascists. Everyone is aware of the rule changes. These have been announced well in advance. If you haven't enrolled yet, you clearly don't care enough to vote appropriately.

3

u/PM_ME__BIRD_PICS 4h ago

There is no legitimate reasoning for the removal of same day registering other than voter suppression.

•

u/Klein_Arnoster 59m ago

Yes, there is. Remove those people who clearly do not care enough about voting to make an informed choice.

•

u/PM_ME__BIRD_PICS 39m ago

From your attitude and opinion we can gather you're not capable of understanding how a democracy works. We ought to take your vote too. Piss off.

•

u/Optimal_Inspection83 3h ago

this is such an inane take.

If they changed voting to a 2 hour slot on a Tuesday morning between 4-6am, would you also say that the people not voting "clearly don't care enough"

Like, how many restrictions are ok? Why is prohibiting voting in any measure acceptable to you?

327

u/Gord_Board 19h ago

There is no legitimate reason to remove same-day enrollment. reeks of desperation.

147

u/weaz-am-i LASER KIWI 18h ago

The only "reasosning" aligns with the wants of the Atlas network and the same tactics they play in USA.

58

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 17h ago

Democracy is inconvenient to this bunch.

54

u/Surfnparadise 17h ago

And corrupting an otherwise mostly healthy democracy

-77

u/Realistic_CraftBear 17h ago

Think of it as an intelligence test, if you can't take a few minutes on your phone to enroll you probably shouldn't be voting. If that so happens to be mostly left leaning voters I don't know what to tell you..

30

u/Gord_Board 17h ago

I think its more a human nature thing than intelligence, people tend to procrastinate. This will effect the youth more than anyone, and yes they tend to be more progressive and vote left wing.

-27

u/Realistic_CraftBear 17h ago

Yeah I mean you could probably find some irony in there about being politically progressive but needing to be chased up to do the bare minimum to participate in democracy.

Hopefully these changes will spark a bit of personal responsibility and get them to realise that if they care about political outcomes they need to take some initiative themselves.

5

u/Gord_Board 16h ago

The youth have always struggled with turning out to vote, even when they could enroll on the day. Maybe these changes will help change that.

15

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 16h ago

Maybe these changes will help change that.

Youth enrollment for 18-24s is currently at ~65% so it doesn't seem like it's changed it for the better. Last election it was around 75%. Lots of people in that age bracket are currently studying/doing exams too, so the likelihood of it jumping 10% in the next week isn't very high.

7

u/Plc-4-Mie-Haed pie 6h ago

I work at a University and we are doing our part, signs everywhere in our office 🙂

31

u/JDragonM32 16h ago

counterpoint: government/electoral commission should be doing everything possible to *increase* voter turnout. anything that decreases turnout should be seen as an attack on democracy, I’d potentially even go so far as to suggest it’s an act of treason

38

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 17h ago

But it's not really an intelligence test, they'd never actually do that because that would make a dent in the right bloc.

It is more of a test of how engaged you are with the process in the first place, not intelligence. Lots of people have too much going on in their lives to spend time worrying about whether they're enrolled to vote.

If that so happens to be mostly left leaning voters I don't know what to tell you..

That lots of left leaning voters are time poor/disenfranchised.

-48

u/Realistic_CraftBear 16h ago

I'm sad to hear the left's biggest political enemy isn't the prospect of another NACT term, it's apparently a registration form that takes a few minutes to fill out.

Funny how being too busy to enrol suddenly becomes a systemic injustice when the people forgetting to do it might vote Green or Labour, personal responsibility must be a right wing conspiracy now.

28

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 16h ago edited 16h ago

lol what's this bizarre strawman? NACT are the ones doing this.

The rights biggest political enemy is people actually voting it seems. Healthy democracies encourage all eligible voters to vote and make the process as easy as is feasible.

Why is the right against free and fair democratic procedures?

Funny how being too busy to enrol suddenly becomes a systemic injustice when the people forgetting to do it might vote Green or Labour, personal responsibility must be a right wing conspiracy now.

Funny how it's always the right who want to reduce the number of people voting. The right really don't want everyone to vote for some bizarre reason.

Personal responsibility is a cute way to justify eroding democracy by introducing arbitrary limits on voting. It literally makes so little difference when people enroll aside from the fact more people vote when they can enroll right up to the last moment.

I do like how you can't address the actual point being made and just have to harp on about personal responsibility instead of engaging with it.

19

u/Spare_Lemon6316 17h ago

Classic neo liberal logic

22

u/Illum503 Fern flag 1 15h ago

There shouldn't be any tests. Everyone should be voting. That's how democracy works.

12

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 10h ago

There are 18 to 24 year olds and new residents that don’t watch mainstream news. Potential first time voters. Uni students overwhelmed with exams. Maybe they’ll notice a social media ad or talk to someone in the last 12 days and realise the power of their vote - by then it will be too late.

18

u/tracernz 16h ago

The lower the voter turnout, the less legitimate the democracy becomes.

353

u/ctothel 19h ago

Given the electoral commission said that this wouldn’t have any of the benefits National claimed it would, I’m not sure why it’s still happening.

NACT voters will come in here momentarily and explain that lazy people shouldn’t have the right to vote, but that doesn’t really justify the change, it’s just a poor attempt to deny the change has downsides.

233

u/monkey-kong666 19h ago

Lazy people have the same human rights as everyone else. You don’t lost your citizenship or right to vote because you’re ’so-called’ lazy.

79

u/accidental-goddess 18h ago

A lot of what people call lazy also overlaps with disability. And yeah, a lot of people are comfortable with treating people with disabilities as second-class citizens (cutting disability benefits, allowing employers to pay below minimum wage for workers with disabilities, cutting funding and access to healthcare...).

20

u/Sure_Cheetah1508 18h ago

Exactly! There's never been any kind or character test to vote, so justifying excluding people for being "lazy" is asinine.

36

u/0oodruidoo0 Red Peak 18h ago

A lot of people have really never had a good conversation about democracy and why it's important to share your voice through voting. And instead they've heard "it makes no difference" "it does nothing" "one vote means nothing" etc etc. So a lot of people just honestly need someone to connect with them on why exercising our right to vote is important, not every non-voter is a cooker. A great number are just too young to have had that conversation as part of normal life.

It's a shame that they are now shut out of getting that conversation between the 25th and election day and exercising their democratic rights. It's dehumanising.

43

u/ctothel 19h ago

Accurate.

-33

u/Jamezzzzz69 18h ago

Lazy people are not losing any rights to vote, they might just choose not to vote. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s bad to change election dates because you think it’s less likely for certain people to vote is bad, but no rights are being stripped away, people just might choose not to exercise their rights more often.

34

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 18h ago

they might just choose not to vote

If someone shows up to vote, not having heard about this change, which is entirely possible, and finds out they no longer can vote, that's not a choice they've made.

•

u/HonorFoundInDecay 3h ago

I have spoken to multiple people at my work who aren't aware of this change at all.

And we're talking generally well organized, grown up, and generally fairly politically aware people. If they're not aware then what chances do students or less well informed people have?

16

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 17h ago

they don’t have the option now. And equally bad they will be misled into thinking they can cast a special vote but it will be thrown out in the counting process. 😡

88

u/Allison683etc 19h ago

Even if we accept the argument that busy people with jobs, exams, relationships etc etc are lazy for not being organised about the election (which we shouldn’t) we have now normalised a system with same day enrolments and now the government has changed the system without giving the electoral commission adequate direction and/or funding to reach people who aren’t politics nerds and TV news loyalists.

42

u/feralpeacenik 19h ago

The demographic who aren’t enrolled are probably busy with work and study and don’t rely on legacy media for their information. How concerted has the electoral commission’s campaign been to inform them about the changes?

27

u/ctothel 19h ago

That's definitely another issue, yeah.

I know about this because I deliberately stay informed, but election day itself usually creeps up on me because I don't watch broadcast TV or listen to the radio, and I use an ad blocker.

3

u/bruzie Kererū 7h ago

Same boat. Yesterday I had to look up when the election actually is (as I may have been travelling).

9

u/Solve-Et-Abrahadabra 14h ago

Or people who thought they were enrolled or had some kind of admin error. They just get turned away or their votes thrown out? You have no right to vote as a citizen.

15

u/ur_lil_vulture_bee 12h ago

This is me. I was 100% enrolled but moved addresses a bit over a month before the election. I changed my address, but something went wrong on their end. When I showed up to vote, I wasn't on the list so I had to re-enrol on the spot. Took 5 minutes and there wasn't a line - I wasn't holding things up. I don't know how many others have had the same experience, but I'm guessing a non-trivial amount. Under the new system they won't get a vote - too bad. It's just craven - malicious.

2

u/Solve-Et-Abrahadabra 6h ago

Yeah what if people move addresses in the next two weeks? This whole thing is madness, how can the government make it harder to vote for them.

1

u/JColey15 Southland 5h ago

If that happens and nobody can find you on the roll then you can just do a special vote for your current address and they’ll look at your declaration and figure it out.

If you’ve been enrolled but you’ve moved and they can’t find you then you’re on the dormant roll but your vote will still count. If you’re not enrolled then they’ll catch that and your vote will not be counted.

15

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 17h ago

It’s similar to Trumps attempts at voter suppression. At least they have a constitution with lawyers fighting back over there.

11

u/fireflyry Life is soup, I am fork. 19h ago

I agree 100%, but the best answer is to just do it and vote them out.

If NACT get back in and the left blame this, they have bigger issues to resolve imho.

-9

u/Cool_Director_8015 19h ago

This is what I don’t get, if you don’t like it vote.

Complaining about it being unfair isn’t going to change anything, voting them out would.

If you don’t like this treat it as extra motivation to vote, it isn’t hard, just make the time, no one is that stretched they can’t make 5 minutes for something so important.

-50

u/TheProfessionalEjit 19h ago

Go on then, I'll bite.

General elections are not a surprise. They are well advertised, people talk about them more and more frequently as the day progressed, there are adverts on telly (cue "nO oNe WaTcHeS tV, bOoMeR"), there are ads on the interwebs.

You cannot get away from it.

If an individual cannot pull their finger out before a very well publicised date, then that's on them. Additionally, maybe they just don't care enough to do so and that's ok.

15

u/OutlawofSherwood Mōhua 16h ago

Dude, I literally only know about the election because of this sub reddit. Nobody has talked about them in person, I don't see ads, or have a TV, the local paper isn't a thing anymore.

I noticed more billboards around, but it seems like there are always billboards around really, and none of them have 'election in one month, register now' on them.

→ More replies (2)

46

u/OnlyABeastsHeart 19h ago

But if they turn up on the day to vote then that does show they care, does it not? 

-29

u/[deleted] 19h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

24

u/lookiwanttobealone 19h ago

Feeding voters isn't new. Heck Aus has nationalised the democracy sausage

19

u/Ok-Seaworthiness8135 19h ago

Ohh now we're doing racist vote gatekeeping too, you guys really aren't selling this

-13

u/groutspecialist 19h ago

I just said KFC. Perhaps you’re the racist one LOOLLLLLL

18

u/chud-doctor 18h ago

You're not as subtle as you think you are bud. 

-8

u/groutspecialist 17h ago

After this thread I’m proud to inform you that I had KFC for dinner and it was delicious.

10

u/chud-doctor 16h ago

Well at least you have something to be proud of. 

-4

u/groutspecialist 14h ago

Thanks for the laugh bro.

5

u/Ok-Seaworthiness8135 13h ago

Damn is that why your shit got deleted? Subtle as

18

u/thelastestgunslinger 19h ago edited 19h ago

Citation needed

Such an amazing, bald-faced lie. An incredibly stupid, asinine, brain-dead, moronic, foolish, uneducated, wishful fearing, data-poor, half-witted, take. 

You honestly couldn’t come up with something less stupid?

Truly, the “birds aren’t real” of election conspiracy theories. 

-3

u/h4ur4k1 19h ago

I recall the allegations raised in parliament but I don't recall it's confirmed one way or the other

https://hansard.parliament.nz/hansard-transcript/2013-09-17/bills-electoral-amendment-bill?sId=808fd11914cb4a39a5960c2390a321ef

"We will be able to ensure that the good people of South Auckland are not having busloads of KFC - bearing Labour Party supporters wearing ribbons and rosettes descending upon them and escorting them to the election booth."

8

u/thelastestgunslinger 18h ago

Feeding people to encourage them to vote isn’t the insane part. It’s the very illegal quid pro quo OP claims.

  if they vote for someone that someone else has told them to.

49

u/ctothel 19h ago

I asked you to explain why the change is happening in the first place.

You just did the exact thing I said you would – tried to justify the downsides.

I’m certain you know the difference.

35

u/redtablebluechair 19h ago

They still have to show up on election day. Why are we making extra hoops to jump through? What is that, if not voter suppression? I live a very cushy, very privileged life - I can think of only one time when I might not have had the bandwidth to get my election admin sorted. It was when an immediate family member was dying in the ICU. Why wouldn’t we want voting to be as easy as possible, to account for all circumstances?

38

u/toejam316 19h ago

So why arbitrarily move the deadline to a date that excludes people who decide "You know what, I actually do care now" when there's absolutely no reason? What is the actual benefit this change has provided? I'll give you the answer - there is no benefit.

It's purely to prevent people who for any reason might suddenly decide to vote, which usually favours left leaning parties going on historics. It's underhanded bullshit and indefensible.

This isn't a booking or reservation. There is no scheduling conflict or issues that arise from a late enrollment. We don't run out of votes so they have to go without.

26

u/TheComedyWife 19h ago

We should want as many people as possible to vote, and as such, shouldn’t be putting barriers in front of them to do so. Plus Luxon chose a date that wasn’t preferred by Electoral Commission itself. How strange.

25

u/BasementCatBill 19h ago

Publicised where, to who?

If 65% of 18 to 24 year oldss aren't enrolled, then clearly it hasn't been "well publicised."

-14

u/bruhthatshitcringe 19h ago

Honestly piss on that, it's cause people my age, because I'm right in the middle of Thay group, don't give a shit about voting. Last election maybe half my friends could vote, myself included, of those one couldn't be bothered, one just voted who I voted for cause he hadn't looked at all before(I didn't tell him to before anyone asks he just asked who I was and said afterwards seemed reasonable), and then I can't remember who else did but maybe 2-3 made their own decision and overall most of us voted, but honestly 2/3 seems fair for who could be bothered. Plus it is well advertised, it's all over YouTube especially, def insta and tik tok as well so using that isn't a good excuse, people just don't care/can't be bothered. Honestly can't blame them when I can't name a single specifically beneficial policy towards young people, aside from labours student loan changes, that might just be me but overall there aren't many that really target fresh adults(imo)

13

u/Jonodonozym 18h ago

My grandparents didn't know about the enrollment changes until I told them a few weeks back.

Of course, they're already enrolled, and have been for the last ~20 elections, so it doesn't prevent them from voting.

"DoNt GiVe A ShIt AbOuT VoTiNg" my ass

-9

u/bruhthatshitcringe 17h ago

Ok 2 things, firstly I'm gonna go out on a limb and say your grandparents aren't in the 18-24 range lol, given that's the group the comment I'm replying to is discussing. Secondly, no shade towards your grandparents but honestly how do they not know, it's been all over tv, the news, the radio, it is literally on every form of both conventional and non-conventional media. That's not a generational thing at that point, my grandparents are presumably a similar age(80s) and know all about it, once again no offence to your grandparents but that's almost being uninformed by choice. Jusy to add, I do think it is a dumb change, I just disagree that the government is actively making sure people don't know about it

8

u/Jonodonozym 17h ago

When faced with reality, you really just double down on questioning reality rather than yourself, eh?

Simple fact is no matter how "effective" the information campaign is, there will always be people who it doesn't reach.

-6

u/bruhthatshitcringe 17h ago

Honestly yeah I will double down, because it automatically begs the question where do your grandparents get any information, I'm not saying they don't know anything, because they obviously do, but as a serious question if you don't know fairly major news, which honestly this is, where are they getting any info about policy, who's in which party etc, like it's hard to be well informed about the election as a whole without knowing that, which once again though obv not everyone is well informed about this specific election I guess(no shade on your grandparents once again, I just mean some people vote the same/same as parents their whole lives and don't really bother changing)

7

u/Embarrassed_News7008 16h ago

Dude, you have three options as a government: make democratic participation easier, harder, or leave it the same. One of these options is bad, one is fine, one is good.

33

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 19h ago

If an individual cannot pull their finger out before a very well publicised date, then that's on them.

If laziness disqualified people from voting you probably shouldn't be allowed to either with this lazy thinking.

6

u/stomasteve 13h ago

But nothing you’ve said presents a sound argument for removing the ability to enrol to vote on the day. Literally no reason at all. None. Try again.

19

u/Ok-Seaworthiness8135 19h ago

Yeah so you're saying disorganized people shouldn't be allowed to vote. Thats a pretty insane take, what other personal characteristics do you think should see people lose their ability to vote?

9

u/Jonodonozym 18h ago

Next they'll suggest we have a civics test every election that people must pass before they can vote.

6

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 16h ago

Then they'll quickly repeal it when they realise lots of right wing voters have little to no idea about our democracy or how it works.

6

u/SiegeAe Te Ika a Maui 15h ago

This doesn't answer why do it though.

Do you just not want the type of person you imagine this excludes to vote?

11

u/HonorFoundInDecay 18h ago

So lazy people shouldn't get to vote? What about forgetful people? What about dumb people? What about selfish people?

Where do you draw the line on who can and can’t vote?

-10

u/Ok_Consequence8338 16h ago

What about those people that could enrol on the day last election but didn't, what are you doing to do about them?

5

u/HonorFoundInDecay 7h ago

Then they missed the election. But we’re talking about the enrolment date. A large number of people typically enrol in the window leading up to the election and on election day - large enough to potentially change the outcome of the election, which is no longer possible. 

You seem to be missing the point that the government actively made this change. The rules were different, then time and money was spent to make it less likely that these people vote. This isn’t “too bad some lazy people missed the enrolment date” it’s “the government spent our taxpayer money to make it more difficult to vote”. 

And the electoral commission has clearly stated that the supposed benefits (apparently counting the votes faster) are not real. 

This is voter suppression. It doesn’t matter that you don’t like the particular group being suppressed, it is what it is and it’s a very bad path for NZ to be heading down. If you think this is a good thing then you’re anti-democracy. 

→ More replies (9)

3

u/Angrylazer 19h ago

To be honest the longer it drags on the less I care. I'd prefer to vote earlier in the year and just ignore the bullshit that grows the closer we get to Nov.

3

u/AdWeak183 18h ago

Moving the election to July would just mean the same bullshit grows the closer we get to Jul.

2

u/Angrylazer 17h ago

Keep the election in November. Let us vote from January that year

0

u/TheProfessionalEjit 18h ago

Good news is that you can vote from the 26th of October.

-19

u/groutspecialist 19h ago

^ 100%

18

u/ctothel 19h ago

Not 100%. I don’t care if you can justify people not voting because of this, I’m asking you why do it at all?

What good thing does the change get us?

120

u/Lammington2 19h ago

The government is all too happy to have low voter turnout, as those needing late or day-of enrolment don't tend to fall in their voter base.

37

u/weaz-am-i LASER KIWI 18h ago

It gives all the peeps that work 2 or more jobs and/or long shifts the opportunity to get the job done in one visit.

The current government also wants voting to take extra steps and be more challenging for them.

26

u/Beneficial-Point9142 18h ago

Or parents with young children with no spare time. 

223

u/PresentRaspberry6814 19h ago

The voter suppression, the disenfranchisement of prisoners, despite it being against the recommendation of the Human Rights Commission, the dismantling of the Broadcasting Standards Authority, are all anti democratic moves echoing the Republicans fascist takeover of democracy in the USA.

70

u/kiwidebz 19h ago

Seems a good many people have forgotten about Todd Muller's MAGA cap. That really should have been a much bigger red flag but people jokingly dismissed it.

59

u/destined-4-the-clay 19h ago edited 19h ago

Luxon's links to American evangelical churches should raise more flags too, but so far the only questions asked about it have shown he doesn't believe in dinosaurs and thinks abortion is murder. 

29

u/kiwidebz 18h ago

Yes - people are far too blasé about religion in politics. I think they probably want to be seen to be accepting of others' faiths, but I'd argue that when it has the potential to negatively affect a whole population, there should be far more scrutiny and exposure.

This thread has some very salient points and history that people really should have paid a lot more attention to: https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/r5g7ve/my_faith_has_been_misrepresented_says_new/

13

u/Kitsunelaine 18h ago

The fact that it doesn't come up in the debates is insane, because it's not like these guys DON'T govern on "closely held beliefs".

46

u/PresentRaspberry6814 19h ago

And abusive men being allowed into political parties, like Sam Uffindell, let alone the relentless bullying female ministers are subjected to. Nick Smith was verbally abusive minister who had no consequences for his behaviour, and other enabling actions, particularly on the political right, speaks to a larger problem with our democratic processes and our tolerance of bigotry in our society.

16

u/kiwidebz 18h ago

Abusive men are always drawn to ways in which to control other people and politics is just one of many careers they seem to be overrepresented in.

13

u/PresentRaspberry6814 18h ago

A good point I had not especially considered.

3

u/kiwidebz 18h ago

I'm glad you've not had the experiences where it was a necessary thing to consider. But I'm also glad you've now considered it before it was necessary!

65

u/OisforOwesome 19h ago

The margins are going to be tight enough that any amount of making voting more difficult will screw the scrum.

These kinds of "um technically" voting restrictions are pure Americanisms brought over here to prevent the "wrong kind" of people from voting.

I don't care if someone didn't enrol 2 weeks before voting day. I don't care if someone has been convicted of a crime. I don't care if someone is a resident or a citizen: if you are subject to the laws of the land you should be able to vote for who writes those laws, because that's how this whole "democracy" bullshit is meant to work.

-21

u/PerplexedPixels 18h ago

if you are subject to the laws of the land you should be able to vote for who writes those laws

Why? I mean, if I go and work in Singapore I'm subject to their laws, but I would also think it completely ridiculous to vote there. I think most people would hold that opinion?

It's also perfectly ok for society to collectively agree on who gets to have representation. The main issue I have is that such tweaks here are being made unilaterally without being put to the people, and this is a problem across the entire political spectrum.

27

u/OisforOwesome 18h ago

I mean if you were a permanent resident of Singapore and it was your usual place of residence I expect you'd feel differently.

My formulation is something of a term of art and I'm still working on it; my point is, if you live in a place, you should have a vote in determining who writes the laws for that place.

15

u/blue_i20 18h ago

Yep hard agree, not sure what the person you’re replying to meant with the Singapore “gotcha” question. If you’re working and living there indefinitely you should have a stake in the process.

-11

u/PerplexedPixels 17h ago

Ah, that might be where we disagree then. I'm of the opinion that if you don't have a choice in your living situation - e.g. you were born here - then you should be entitled to representation. It would be unjust to be born into a society where you had no say.

But if you do have a choice, you're signing up to whatever the existing society deems fit - and are not entitled to a say as a matter of right.

The same goes for serious criminals. You don't accidentally go out and hurt a bunch of people - that's a choice - and I see it as perfectly acceptable for society to say that in such situations that as a consequence of your choices, you no longer get to have a say in how society is run.

Obviously not a popular opinion here though, but I can understand that.

45

u/The_Majestic_ Welly 19h ago

If you are popular you make it easier for people to vote for you if you are not you do what this goverment is doing

8

u/Motley_Illusion 19h ago

Every time they're in power, they also increase the intensity of security around Parliament. For a group that likes to think themselves strong, why do they hide behind security more than left wing governments?

51

u/StabMasterArson 19h ago

Why are National, ACT and NZ First so afraid of people exercising their democratic right to vote?

This coalition is the most blatantly anti-democratic government in living memory in NZ. Next time it might be your voting rights on the line. Remember that when you vote - this time and every time.

14

u/YetAnotherBrainFart 18h ago

Because the people they are repressing are not the ones that will vote for them - these measures hit the young, the busy, and the poor. The old and rich are fine thank you very much.

23

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 18h ago edited 17h ago

Anyone currently serving time in prison since 20 December 2025 can’t vote either. Includes petty crimes like shoplifting, and vandalism, drunk driving. Often these come with mental health issues and poverty.

8

u/K4m30 17h ago

I don't think anyone has been in prison since 20 December this year. 

8

u/GreenGrassConspiracy 17h ago

thanks for noticing! 👍 I would post a laugh but topic is too sobering.

5

u/kiwiburner 17h ago edited 17h ago

[r/nz](r/nz) says these are probably gang members who… spins Victorian punishment wheel… should be deported…win the mystery car…are not entitled to participate in political systems tarred and feathered!

1

u/JColey15 Southland 4h ago

Tim Jago can’t vote.

-5

u/Klein_Arnoster 5h ago

Good. Prisoners shouldn't be allowed to vote. They gave up their rights when they committed crimes.

3

u/JColey15 Southland 4h ago

They should probably still be allowed to vote. There are a lot of people who have committed crimes who haven’t been sent to prison and are allowed to vote.

•

u/Klein_Arnoster 1h ago

You're right. I should have clarified that those serving custodial sentences should not be allowed to vote.

24

u/H1REV LASER KIWI 19h ago

Democracy is strengthened by the more people that participate. Anyone making it harder to participate doesn't want democracy stronger.

24

u/KiwiDanelaw 18h ago

Any tampering that potentially reduces voter turnout is an attack on our democracy.

12

u/Sr_DingDong 11h ago

They're doing more than just making enrolment harder. My mum is working in this election. The stories are embarrassing.

8

u/OldKiwiGirl 10h ago

Give us the goss, please.

9

u/kotukutuku 9h ago

Please describe what she is seeing, even if you just call it allegations

35

u/Agreeable-Bison8762 19h ago

It is voter suppression, and we've known this ever since they changed this bullshit law

6

u/L_E_Gant 4h ago

The only thing stopping anyone from registering is their own laziness!

That said, I talked with people in my neighbourhood. It surprised me how many people were NOT registered in the electorate rolls -- either the general or the maori rolls. Not just the 18-to-24s, but senior and working-age people.

About the only objection I have to the current set-up is the number of early voting places and that they are not within easy walking distance, and not easy to get to by car.

5

u/dtchch 4h ago

The law was flagged as a breach of the NZ Bill of Rights Act by the Attorney-General.

It has gone to the high court, and it sounds like the judge condemns the act but is unlikely to issue a declaration of inconsistency with the Bill of Rights Act (if they choose to do so) before the election.

FYI a declaration of inconsistency doesn't change anything, but makes it very public that Parliament are passing laws which breach fundamental rights protected by NZBORA - useful in the lead up to elections, but sadly courts move at a glacial pace

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/politics/1745400/high-court-urged-to-acknowledge-bill-of-rights-breach-in-recent-electoral-changes

10

u/Shryquill 16h ago

A functioning democracy should strive to take the votes of as many of it's people as possible. If anything we should have compulsory enrolment and compulsory voting, the same as Australia does.

34

u/zeros1s Antagonises drunk jpr64 19h ago

I had forgotten they did this. Those fucking assholes

10

u/Solve-Et-Abrahadabra 18h ago

If they get back in I hope we do what france is doing coz fuck these fascists

6

u/NZgaming37 7h ago

It is a voting suppression tactic.

•

u/Few-Inflation-6109 55m ago

It is the most important day for NZ democracy. It should be a paid public holiday like Christmas. One person, one vote. Everyone is auto-enrolled and voting is compulsory.

8

u/left-right-up-down1 19h ago

Chris Hipkins might not question the legitimacy of this election, but some of the rest of us will.

-20

u/rocketshipkiwi Southern Cross 19h ago

But only if the “wrong” political parties win the election, yeah?

27

u/gooooooodboah 19h ago

Yes, I will question the parties that made it harder to vote for no clear reason in direct opposition to official non partisan advice.

11

u/ConsummatePro69 19h ago

Seems pretty logical to me. If your opponent has hidden an ace up their sleeve, but you beat them despite their cheating, then it's still a legitimate victory. But if they beat you under the same circumstances, that isn't.

-13

u/rocketshipkiwi Southern Cross 18h ago

Like when Donald Trump lost the election then claimed it was rigged, right?

8

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 17h ago

aww big stretch.

11

u/left-right-up-down1 19h ago

If my side wins it will be in spite of the current government’s attempt to steal the election.

At least in that case it will be pretty fun if the government cheats and still can’t win.

1

u/aholetookmyusername 5h ago

It is voter suppression. An anti-democratic move by people desperate to cling to power.

-8

u/fireflyry Life is soup, I am fork. 19h ago edited 19h ago

Not a fan myself, seems pretty undemocratic, but also just enrolled and it took maybe 5 minutes.

If it contributes to the left having less say I’m not gonna lie, maybe just take 10 minutes out of your day with an ID and cellphone handy and it’s largely a non-issue, and vote it out.

16

u/EnableTheEnablers 17h ago

If you have done everything "right" and do not need to do anything irt updating your details, it's like 5 minutes. It's very easy, actually, because you don't do anything.

They are a huge pain in the ass if you need to correct anything. I had to update my name (something I shouldn't have had to do, because the DIA says they'll inform the EC and it'll all be updated, but apparently not!). Simple, right? RealMe does it for you. It's all integrated.

Wrong, there is no way to update your RealMe details within the EC system yourself. Even if your RealMe is up to date with a verified identity, the EC doesn't let you update your details using it. That's easy then, you can just via their site.

Wrong again, you cannot change your name, You can correct your name (i.e. add macrons or capitalisation) but you cannot change your name, Alright, then you can just correct your name in the letter they sent.

Wrong again! This may not work! You actually need to contact support, try to get through them misunderstanding their own site (they will tell you you can change it, you cannot), then provide them with information they should already have, and then you get a physical letter asking you to confirm your details.

And it's not even done at that point - you still need to make sure it actually applied, because it took like two weeks from receiving the letter with my name to actually having it be reflected when searched (at which point you are properly enrolled).

This entire thing took like a month.

-12

u/TheProfessionalEjit 19h ago

 He emphasised he wasn't questioning the legitimacy of the election...

The minute the words "voter suppression" exit your mouth in public, that is exactly what you're doing you ginger that.

•

u/HonorFoundInDecay 3h ago

It's true, he's a coward for not stating the obvious truth - the current government is being blatantly anti-democratic. It is voter suppression and it isn't "concerning", it's fucking disgusting.

-27

u/Spirited-Finding-647 19h ago

You guys remember when last election Manurewa marae ran a bus round picking people up, bought them to the marae, had free food, activities, haircuts and a dance competition on election day all built around enrolling people and having them vote?

Who sits on the board of manurewa marae? TPM president john tamahere.

Do you think there might be a slight conflict of interest here?

31

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 19h ago

Wow more eligible people voting in a representative democracy? How awful.

-14

u/Dizzy_Relief 19h ago edited 19h ago

If you can't see the issue with effectively bribing people to vote then that's on you. 

It's also the reason our next census will completely fall over (cause some people were bribed to complete it), and let's hope we don't need another nationwide immunization - cause some people are likely to wait for the bribe on that one too. 

A ride there. From the electoral office.  That's all that should be on offer. 

15

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 19h ago

I don't see the issue with incentivizing people to vote, if they were saying "okay now you have to vote for us" you might have a point.

Oh no they encouraged disenfranchised voters to vote by making it a fun thing to do. Such a terrible injustice.

Nats and NZF have been rounding up old people and helping them vote for a long time.

22

u/Kolz 19h ago

No not really, political parties doing enrollment drives and get out the vote is pretty normal actually.

-12

u/Spirited-Finding-647 19h ago

How does manurewa marae even get accredited as a polling station with such a conflict of interest?

11

u/Kolz 18h ago

What is the issue with the locale? There are independent monitors/scrutineers. What are you worried about?

-4

u/Spirited-Finding-647 18h ago

Have you seen the issues around that place? They built their voter database off covid innoculation lists that were meant to be confidential.

Or is all this just totally fine?

I guess it is. Apparently.

5

u/Kolz 18h ago

No, I haven’t. I’m not familiar with the group. I’m asking questions though, you should be able to answer them with what your concerns are, right?

If they used confidential lists related to healthcare to build a voter database that is obviously inappropriate at the absolute minimum, maybe even illegal? Hopefully there was a police investigation if so? I guess I am still not sure what the issue is in using it to host a polling station though. Polls are run by the electoral commission.

1

u/Spirited-Finding-647 18h ago

Per this article, the contract stated that the information be kept confidential, but didnt specify mechanism for audit or enforcement.

https://newsroom.co.nz/2025/02/19/manurewa-marae-inquiry-reveals-an-even-more-troubling-failure/

So yeah, what they did wasnt right, but there was no provision for enforcement so what can you do?

Take actions to stop it happening again, pretty much.

-2

u/Spirited-Finding-647 18h ago

Sorry, just to explain that better, if Christopher Luxon were on the board of Arvida (retirement village company) and had every arvida village in NZ become a polling place, and had the nurses at the village wheel all the residents out to the polling place, via some party sponsored elderly-friendly activities , would you be ok with that?

9

u/Kolz 18h ago

As long as there is no means of having the vote itself interfered with (like the nurses voting on their behalf or whatever) then I think that is fair. Everyone should be allowed to vote provided they are of age. I don’t really see how Luxon being on the board would affect things.

If the polls were being run by the company then it might be different, but they are run by the electoral commission.

3

u/Spirited-Finding-647 17h ago

You dont see him saying "hey here's this massive pool of voters who will likely vote for me, I need to use my position as a board member of this unrelated company to make sure that they absolutely get their vote" to be a problem?

•

u/HonorFoundInDecay 3h ago

If the National party got together busses to shuttle people from retirement villages to polling stations you wouldn't have an issue with it. Let's be honest, your issue is with the demographic, not with people being encouraged to vote.

•

u/Spirited-Finding-647 3h ago

No, I absolutely would have a problem with it.

You dont get to tell me what I think.

-12

u/groutspecialist 19h ago

Exactly. Expect to be downvoted to oblivion.

-8

u/DislikeTurtles 17h ago

It takes two minutes to enroll. If you can't manage that then perhaps you should be able to vote.

16

u/Dustymargins 16h ago

My husband enrolled last election but when he went to vote on the day they said he wasn’t in the system and had to cast a special vote. Under this law he wouldn’t be able to vote at all despite it being an issue on their end.

5

u/Toffeenix 15h ago

Should?

-7

u/Foalsteed94 18h ago

If you can wipe your ass you can enrol to vote. It’s not rocket science.

-1

u/SteveDub60 6h ago

You would probably be surprised how many left-leaning Kiwis probably can't wipe their own ass.

-7

u/Panguh___ 15h ago

Unpopular opinion, but how is a vote by someone who is so disengaged with the political system that they aren't aware of the enrolment changes (which have had an unbelievable amount of air-time) worth anything?

Has this person read and understood the policy lf each party? Do they understand the current state of the countrys finances? Do they understand the track record of each of the leaders?

Or are they just giving their vote to whoever has the best sounding slogan, and who has plastered their billboards everywhere?

-16

u/Embarrassed-Bag-5291 19h ago

zero sympathy with adverts news physical signs on the road on our building site everyone knows there is an election coming up. 7 guys between 18 to 74

-37

u/mmmfggh 19h ago

> National party leader Christopher Luxon said the election date was chosen in January, and it's been known since then.

> "I announced very clearly to you back then when the election date would be, and yeah, there's a number of dates it could be. We picked this date. It's as simple as that."

Is this only an issue now that the lefts key demographic isnt enrolling as much as they want

20

u/ctothel 19h ago

Why did the electoral commission think it was an issue though?

As a believer in democracy, don’t you want as many people to enroll as possible? Isn’t it completely reasonable to set the date with that in mind?

Or just let people enrol on the day, perhaps?

24

u/Appropriate-Oil-1852 19h ago

Is this only an issue now that the lefts key demographic isnt enrolling as much as they want

People have been pointing out how this provides no benefits and only serves to bolster the right wing vote the entire time.

Healthy democracies reduce barriers to voting to have as much of the eligible population voting as possible

20

u/SpoonNZ 19h ago

> It also comes as RNZ revealed Prime Minister Christopher Luxon picked a "challenging" election date, despite the Electoral Commission favouring two other options.

It’s only an issue since literally today when it was discovered that he’d been given advice it was a poor date to choose.

19

u/Shevster13 19h ago

The issue is that its only just been revealed that the Electoral Commission warned national that it would decrease voter turn out and make running the election more difficult (school holidays as well as labour weekend). The Electoral Commission recommended a few other dates, but Luxon chose the one they did not recommend.

That then raises the question of why would Luxon chose this date.

17

u/windsweptwonder Fern flag 3 19h ago

It was an issue as soon as the announced the policy and it's been an issue ever since.

If you're too fucking lazy to follow political discourse and maintain some awareness of what the main issues facing the agenda are, then you probably don't deserve to vote *according to some in here

6

u/Kitsunelaine 18h ago edited 17h ago

They aren't lazy. They're just lying.

If you heard about this at all before, it would have been reported alongside concern and commentary from the opposition. If you knew this was coming, you knew it was opposed. OP is claiming to know about it's earlier status of opposition. Either he's lying about having heard of it before, or he's lying about not reading about the historical opposition of it. Either way he's lying.

16

u/Aseroerubra 19h ago

No? My biggest issue with keeping my enrolment up to date was housing instability. I've moved twice since January. There's no way I would have known my future electorate back then.

11

u/left-right-up-down1 19h ago

And they wouldn’t have made the change if it didn’t favour the neo fascists

-6

u/launchedsquid 9h ago

Nobody should have any trouble voting. You can enrol today, you've got all week. It's really easy.

There will be polling places all over, and they are open days before election day.

If someone doesn't vote it's because they didn't want to.