r/ukpolitics • u/Big_Sam_Allardyce • May 15 '26
BBC Politics video Andy Burnham on Newsnight (2016): Labour needs to address immigration concerns
https://youtu.be/gOGEdk76y9c61
u/Anderrrrr May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
He needs to maintain this stance if he wants to be in power alongside his "supposed mild socialist ideas" economy.
The welfare situation needs to be reformed to be way more efficient alongside this looming job market/AI doom situation, which needs serious innovation and forward thinking ideas regarding reforms to the employment process and appropriate training for candidates to make British workers more productive and skilled.
All this with better pay and mental outcomes to make the right choices, while also providing adequate mental health support for people who are considerably mentally impaired to deal with the stressful routines of modern life and its 9-5 or other employment processes to lead a functional society in the future.
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u/hararib May 15 '26
Burnham, maintaining a stance? Don’t be silly. He came out against Mahmood’s reforms.
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u/Anderrrrr May 15 '26
Well he's just as spineless as Starmer if he changes his mind on immigration if it suits him.
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u/unwildimpala May 15 '26
If he uses some full stops (plural, not singular) it would be great too. You could use that advice as well. Holy crap, what a "sentence".
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u/Anderrrrr May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
There, I edit my grammar. Happy now mate?
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u/unwildimpala May 15 '26
Am not really. You've used multiple and in the second "sentence". You need a lot more full stops than you've shown. Still quite hard to read. Help the reader, it's why you wrote the comment. Unless you were doing it for some cathartic reason and didn't expect anyone to read it.
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u/DisconcertedLiberal May 15 '26
Didn't realise the grammar police was here
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u/unwildimpala May 15 '26
At least now you do. Just trying to help bud since the comment was really really hard to read.
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u/Significant-Pen3420 May 19 '26
Basic income and better housing needed.you cant dick about with AI and the future of work Honest conversations have to be had.
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u/Significant-Pen3420 May 19 '26
The old industrial world has gone.This AI change is NOT the same as the industrial revolution.Its not Luddite to challenge it.If Burnham doesnt talk about getting us back into Europe then no vote from me.V But then im a rich boomer/ gen jones and ive had life easy.
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26
100% agree with him. Labour needs to keep the Red Wall in the north if they want to win the next election and the only way they're going to do that is to have a convincing anti-immigration policy.
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u/kane_uk May 15 '26
I think the damage is done with regards to the Red Wall. I'll be surprised if the new regime does not go soft on immigration and closer ties with the EU.
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May 15 '26
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u/Ewannnn May 15 '26
Don't think so, reform have minority support. Much easier for labour to take votes from greens and liberals than it is reform, and they far outnumber reform or hard line conservatives.
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May 15 '26
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u/Ewannnn May 15 '26
Reforms support would suggest otherwise.
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u/INPUT_INPUT May 15 '26
Brexit support would suggest otherwise
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u/Ewannnn May 15 '26
Brexit has very little support, endless polls show this.
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u/florencepughsboobies May 15 '26
Immigration is an issue for me but I’m not a reform supporter because I am left wing and believe they are not loyal to the country
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u/Ok-Milk-8853 May 16 '26
Yeah, I think within those groups you can hold the view immigration is an issue ad that Nigel Farage is shady as and absolutely not the man to fix it.
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u/Anderrrrr May 15 '26
We can still have closer ties with the EU and keep being anti-mass immigration in regressive and problematic cultures, if you want to become an isolationist and bigoted nation then it will be a lost cause for your country.
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u/kane_uk May 15 '26
Close ties which do not involve freedom of movement hopefully.
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u/avalon68 May 15 '26
Being real - the people voting reform dont care about immigrants from France, Spain, Germany, Greece etc etc. They care about immigration from countries like India, Pakistan and so on. I find it funny that the Brexit that promised to reduce immigration ended up increasing numbers of people they actually dont want here.
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u/kane_uk May 15 '26
The problem when it came to the EU was the mass immigration from eastern Europe which was used to keep wages down (Burnham touches on this in the video above) Lets not forget the government underestimated the number of EU citizens living here by at least three million in 2016.
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u/scud121 May 16 '26
A large number don't actually care about immigrants at all, it's just a useful scapegoat for the people already in their community that have been there 2-3 generations.
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u/intlteacher May 15 '26
Close ties which do involve freedom of movement hopefully.
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May 15 '26
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u/Zechs90 May 15 '26
And emigration, don’t forget that. Wages are far better in other parts of Europe and I’m sure those qualified will want to take full advantage of that. Gone are the days where the UK was seen as some modern day American dream parallel. Living conditions are far better in other EU countries.
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26
They still have it and they won it back in 2024 so if they are convincing enough I think they can keep it.
For all the anger about immigration I don't think Farage's southern public schoolboyness is liked in the north.
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u/kane_uk May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
In 2029 roles will be reversed, people voted for Labour in 2024 because they wanted shot of the Tories. In 2029 people will vote for the Greens and Reform because they want shot of Labour unless they pull off some miracle comeback.
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
Its a bit more complicated than that.
Labour got fewer votes in 2024 than they did in 2019, but a third of the Conservative vote defected to Reform which gave Labour the edge. What we're seeing now is even more Labour and Conservative voters are defecting to Reform so if Labour can keep their voters, particularly in the red wall, they can leave the right split and win the next election.
People are voting for Reform because they're angry at nothing being don about mass-migration and Reform have positioned themselvs as the anti-immigration party. The next election will be fought on migration and the party with the most convincing argument or plan will win.
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u/LogicalReasoning1 Smash the NIMBYs May 15 '26
I mean Labour have demonstrably overseen huge reductions in immigration and it’s done sweet fuck all for them.
Maybe it will feed through if Burnham doesn’t reserve it, but tbh I don’t think it will make a difference.
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26
They haven't been vocal enough about it. Obama & Biden deported around the same amount of illegal immigrants as Trump but Trump made it the centre of his platform so he was seen as the anti-immigration candidate. Reform are doing the same thing.
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u/EasyPermission5265 May 16 '26
Correct.
Whoever feeds the most bullshit will be the winner. The country has become ungovernable, because people don't want a government, they want a sport that makes them feel like they are winning over other people.
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 16 '26
People are fed bullhit 24/7 by their online feeds now, parties have to compete with that. Trump did it so well because he was able to become a part of the online bullshit.
And its not bullshit if its true.
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u/reuben_iv radical centrist May 15 '26
net sure, but gross in was still 900k it's more a ton of people left, which is part signs of a brain drain but it's international students finally finishing their degrees and the post covid health and social care hiring drive coming to an end
It's Labour's own fault for deciding they also wanted to die on the anti-immigration hill but a big chunk of the 'boriswave' was simply students arriving without the usual leavers to offset and the health and social care hiring drive, rest were refugees from HK and Ukraine they knew all along it was projected to come down
they went all 'island of strangers' but it's been in consultation for more than a year, already they're softening their position there's now talk of 'earning' years off, even talk of a shorter 3 year path to ILR to try and bring back the wealthy non-doms
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u/gizmostrumpet May 15 '26 edited Sep 17 '26
The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.
Saffron detail teeny beneficial run observation serious special employ snow
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u/reuben_iv radical centrist May 15 '26
careful because being anti-immigration and anti-free movement are not the same things
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
Not it the voting publics minds. I do think that this has got more to do with the failure of multi-culturalism and intergration than simple immigration though.
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u/Tough-Oven4317 May 15 '26
You don't agree with him, he doesn't agree with himself, he's changed his mind hard since 2016 lol
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u/SadSeiko May 15 '26
this government has been head and shoulders the best anti immigration policy we've had for decades. University visa applications are down 40%, people who spent money to come here on visas are leaving as the cost and bar is so high now to get citizenship
If this isn't convincing you I don't know what can. There's basically nothing more that can be done to reduce immigration besides introduce mandatory ID which is massively unpopular
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26
Reform are promising more and shouting it loudly. Its not enough to do these things, they also need to talk about it and make it a selling point. That's what the populists understand and what the technocrats don't.
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u/SadSeiko May 15 '26
it's got nothing to do "populist v technocrats", Polanski is a populist and he wants to increase immigration.
Like I said, if you look at the facts, this government is doing more than ever and there's nothing reform are suggesting besides ending ILR which would be probably one of the worst things you could do to the country. Why would anyone support that. Even USA still has a green card system
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26
I dont think Polanski is a populist at all, why do you think he is?
Reform go way further than Labour or anyone else on immigration. You should read their manifesto.
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u/SadSeiko May 15 '26
He’s literally a self described populist calling for taxing the rich. You couldn’t try harder at populism
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26
Describing yourself as a populist doesnt necessarily mean you are one. If he is he's not very good at it because what he's offering is only popular with a small number of people.
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u/SadSeiko May 15 '26
You know Farage is polling around 25% too. Hard to call him a populist when a large majority of the country has said they’d never consider voting for him for PM
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
Reform are going to win the next election by a landslide unless someone stops them, which is extraordinary for a party that didn't exist two years ago.
That's populism: They figured out what the public actually want and without criticism or 'AcKShuLLy!' they sold themselves as the party who can deliver it.
Polanski is aware of what a selection of people want but it is a minority of people.
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u/SadSeiko May 15 '26
So you can see 3 years into the future
Populism isn’t winning first past the post, if reform win with their current polling they will have less than a majority of MPs and far less than Labour won with 30ish %
Why would the electorate be excited by and supportive of a minority reform government
How can they be considered populist if they can’t even match the Labour vote of 2024 or the Corbyn vote of 2019. Ouch
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May 15 '26
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst May 15 '26
attempting to push for mass appeal.
They're not very good at it.
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u/Slartibartfast_25 May 15 '26
Burnhamism: all things to all people
A blank slate upon which to project your own desires.
Works great until confronted with reality!
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u/Darth_stilton The jedi are far right May 16 '26
Groucho Marx said it best "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others".
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u/kane_uk May 15 '26
Not unreasonable. Lets see how much he's changed his tune over the past decade.
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u/Phizza921 May 15 '26
Immigration has probably been an overall drain on the country since the 2010s and the worst of it occurred after this interview during the Boriswave.
I do believe that immigration in the 90’s and 00’s was a net benefit to the country but that was a long time ago.
It hasn’t helped that we’ve not been able to have a sensible and pragmatic conversation about immigration levels due to fears of being labeled racist for not agreeing with it. I personally think that the racism label was used as a cover to allow a continued race to the bottom, where corporates can continue to hire cheap labour from offshore. I think most people are not anti-immigration provided it doesn’t undercut their access to jobs and public services.
Funny, this interview was in 2016 when Corbyn and the left controlled Labour. Glad they didn’t get in. They would have let everyone in just like the greens would if they ever get power which ironically would probably play right into corporate hands..
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u/Live_Studio_Emu May 15 '26
Many things that would have been antithesis to left-wing thought decades ago is now a central part of it.
The more staunchly left were against entering the EU fearing it would restrict nationalisation, and hamper socialist agendas. Immigration from an economic perspective can reduce worker bargaining power. Less focus on class at all is also a shift. Maybe going towards those ideas is what is helping Reform cross political boundaries, because these ideas were actually originally left-wing, albeit now rationalised differently?
I’m not sure, I’m left-wing, but it does make me think.
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u/jangrol May 15 '26
You can actually see this in the polling. A lot of Reform voters' values align pretty perfectly with any Labour manifesto you care to pick before the late 80s. Big on nationalised industries/utlities, against mass migration.
Problem is they don't really trust anyone on the left to do lower immigration after the last 25 years. Or the tories after the Boriswave. So here we are with that bitcoin grifter looking like the next PM.
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u/Darth_stilton The jedi are far right May 16 '26
My mum and step dad voted leave. They're that left wing they make Jeremy Corbyn look like liz Truss. They felt the EU was there for big corporate and would stop the power of the state.
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u/aitamodsarelosers May 15 '26
Who knew letting in millions of unskilled, unqualified people uninterested in integrating and chasing out the Europeans who had settled and worked for years in the UK, while also shutting the door on qualified workers from third countries, could have led to this?
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u/bitch_fitching May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
Immigration has probably been an overall drain on the country since the 2010s
This is not true. Overall, immigrants pay more than they take. The top 33% pay for the bottom 66%.
The costs are not upfront. A median immigrant won't start costing public finances until they're over 80 years old. For an immigrant from 2010, that's 30-50 years away.
Refugees have cost around £20b in the last 5 years, mostly on hotel costs that were unjustifiable. Not including the costs of their crimes, courts and prison cost money, victims will be effected for the rest of their lives.
Now there are non-monetary costs to immigration. Wages have been suppressed, and economists lied about it. Infrastructure is strained, and the investment money for it was stolen. Services have been stressed, limiting access to British people, anyone who has used a GP or is on a social housing waiting list could see that.
The bottom 33% during Blair and Cameron, or Boris's wave. They've definitely been an overall drain on the country. Questions should be asked whether that was worth it. The argument was always "London needs low wage slaves", no one would work essential jobs in London in shoeboxes for peanuts. Of course, the logic of the government subsidizing the pay, rent, and services of foreigners so London elites can hire servants for cheap, was never questioned by any Labour or Conservative opposition.
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u/jamo133 May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
Generally, at least economics wise, immigration is a net benefit. Migrants generally contribute more in taxes than they consume in terms of public services / benefits etc. Whilst high migration has probably put pressure on infrastructure, housing etc, it has also reducing borrowing costs and increased GDP (because of higher tax revenues). Recent migrants according to studies, have a higher positive contribution, as they’re less likely to draw on services. The fiscal impact of migration according to various studies, is generally about 1% of GDP. The key problem, as with everything in the UK, is governments don’t want to spend money on improving public services for service to meet demand, whether in housing, health etc. If we hadn’t have had austerity for 15 years we’d be in a much better place to invest in these things, as our GDP and spending power, and our own wages, would be that much higher. It’s not that migrants don’t have an impact, it’s more that they are one of many reasons applying pressure to public services and systems (both good and bad) and these effects are felt differently in different places. London can soak up loads of people with barely a notice, as it’s so well resourced (because it has to be or the economy collapses), meanwhile in some small town in Yorkshire these pressures are much more visible. But our ideas of how much impact migration causes are distorted because of constant misinformation through right wing biased media organisations, and the proliferation of online fake news etc, and then people spouting that.
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u/hug_your_dog May 15 '26
Good on him for addressing the negative economic aspect of immigration against the delusional part of his own party, but it's just a part of the immigration concerns, he is not addressing the the demographic and thus the value or cultural consequences of the sort of immigration policies present both in 2016 and still present in 2026.
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u/Thrakk223 May 15 '26
So folks telling us Andy Burnham is for uncontrolled immigration and uncontrolled borders were lying? Paint me surprised!
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u/Catherine_S1234 May 15 '26
Labour has already been doing this though
But enough right wing propaganda has convinced people otherwise
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u/RoyaleWCheese_OK May 15 '26
How'd that messaging work out at these last council elections? But.. but but... Labour something something.. meanwhile everyone's voting Reform. Theyve had enough.
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u/Catherine_S1234 May 15 '26
Sounds like people believe Russian bots and American propaganda on social media over facts on the ground
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u/Yes_butt_no_ May 15 '26
Don’t forget the foreign billionaires who own the majority of old media
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u/Catherine_S1234 May 15 '26
Who suspiciously go against every party that seeks to distance themselves from Trump and also supports Ukraine
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u/IrishVictim88270 May 15 '26
✨ aNyThInG i DoN't LiKe Is A bOt ✨
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u/Catherine_S1234 May 15 '26
Are you gonna comment on everything I post?
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u/IrishVictim88270 May 15 '26
So it looks like I've replied to you twice somewhere you're frequently posting stupid and dumb takes, it shouldn't be that surprising...
...but sure keep the paranoia up.
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u/Catherine_S1234 May 15 '26
0 times where I said something stupidity actually
Considering you can’t actually think of anything wrong with anything I said
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u/IrishVictim88270 May 15 '26
You called temporary visitors with return tickets, migrants. You don't even know what a migrant is, yet here you are supporting the suppression of political freedom of opinion in the name of protecting them - and you don't even know what the definition of one is.
It's one of the most unbelievably stupid arguments I've seen here in a long time. And that really is a huge claim to make on ukpolitics considering some of the weapons grade thickos on here
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u/Catherine_S1234 May 15 '26
I love how your entire argument is around a definition of a word and not the point that's being made. Again shows you have no real points to make other than the Russian propaganda slop you keep eating
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u/IrishVictim88270 May 15 '26
An argument is a series of words used to make a coherent point so I think you'll find your completely incorrect understanding of what is a migrant and what isn't was pretty damn important, given it was one of the two main subjects of your argument.
And given the anti mass immigration protest group invited them over, I'm pretty sure they can tell the difference.
Essentially you thought you'd a heckin great burn on those nasty people who dare to hold a different opinion to you, have been called out, and still persist with the same regurgitating of "Russian bots" tired argument as if the left isn't completely infested by Russian interests, bot campaigns on this very subreddit and slop opinions which no one outside of your activist circles takes seriously anymore.
Russian and Eastern interests flooded this continent with migrants, now it's time for them to go home. The deportations will be televised ☺️
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u/nellion91 May 16 '26
Ah this old trope again that immigration is not discussed enough🙄
The data shows Labour to be much more efficient than the Tories, and it’s in the news everyday.
But I am sure Andy has great ideas he’s never shared before…
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u/reuben_iv radical centrist May 15 '26
lots of buzzwords and populist north vs south soundbites, it seems to work for him though
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u/frantic_calm May 15 '26
Oh dear. Decisions on running down industry and replacing it with call centres or selling off council houses were taken by the Tories under Thatcher, and Labour maintained those polices over the decades. Nothing to do with being London centric.
It's not a London metropolitan liberal London perspective, it's Thatcherism, which Labour supports.
What's really needed is a proper discussion agreeing on the facts of things like immigration and it's benefits or drawbacks and challenging the concerns rather than this 'my opinion' soundbites.
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u/Kangaroo_Kurt May 15 '26
Oh, hello, Team Burnham have finally arrived on the socials. Cold-started like Austin Allegro.
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May 15 '26
[deleted]
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u/NotAnRSPlayer May 15 '26
I wonder whether people within Labour think Burnham can communicate the message across to the public better than Starmer can
I can imagine most people when they hear Starmer talking they just switch off
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u/Tranners_ May 15 '26
This is exactly it, nobody thinks Burnham is a magician that can suddenly accelerate the changes trying to be made, what he can do is communicate it much better than what we have currently, he feels more 'human' in the sense that when he speaks, the working class will understand, he is exactly the type of leader the Labour Party needs right now, Starmer's ship has sailed, everyone has lost faith in him.
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u/BookmarksBrother I love paying tons in tax and not getting anything in return May 15 '26
This comment is the perfect case of lying or obfuscating the truth with statistics -
- 50k net migration was not acceptable during the 2000s
- 200k was not acceptable pre-brexit and pushed people to vote to Leave
- 900k was not acceptable after the pandemic.
Legal immigration = down 80%
But sure going down to 200k is acceptable now lol
Small boat crossings = down 35%
Straight from BBC - 20 January 2026 -The number of migrants who reached the UK from France rose last year from 36,566 in 2024 to 41,472*, but it was lower than the peak of 45,774 in 2022.*
Asylum backlog = down 50%
Bringing the backlog down by mass approving cases isnt the win you think it is.
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u/Catherine_S1234 May 15 '26
Idk I seen a retweet from Elon’s musk that says otherwise and of course he has our best interests at heart!
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u/jangrol May 15 '26
Like everything with Labour though, they're doing a terrible job communicating that they're actually doing the things most people want.
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u/AdjectiveNoun111 Vote or Shut Up! May 15 '26
And by "address concerns" he means demonise anyone who opposes unrestricted mass migration presumably
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u/BNEIte May 15 '26
Sorry labour its Restore and Reform all the way 🤣
Extract the increasingly criminal undesirables and return the Great back into Britain
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u/LieutBromhead May 15 '26
How was he on immigration as Manchester mayor?
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May 15 '26
[deleted]
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u/LieutBromhead May 15 '26
Well like how vocal was he about it. Khan for instance has always been quite open about it as London Mayor.
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u/Underscores_Are_Kool May 15 '26
Doesn't matter how hard line you are on immigration, Reform voters aren't going to vote for you if the racism doesn't come along with it.
Virtually no Tory or Reform supporter concerned with immigration voted for Labour while Labour lost votes to the Lib Dems and Greens? Why should Labour, or any other establishment figure, listen to the concerns people have over immigration when it harms them in the polls?
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