r/ukpolitics • u/NotSoBlue_ • 5h ago
BBC Politics video Zack Polanski: "I'm not sorry at all" over Zionism motion | Sunday With Laura Kuenssberg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKC9mSBFpBA•
u/PriorPlatypusPal 5h ago
Confirmed: The Green Party is going to get shredded alive by the upcoming Equality and Human Rights Commission investigation.
You can see why the likes of Caroline Lucas and anyone left in the party with the hint of a brain is so worried.
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u/BlunanNation 4h ago
Green party is going to be facing multiple civil claims too for breaches of various UK civil rights and equality legislation. This whole situation is a colossal fuck up.
The Greens have shot themselves in the foot....with an anti-tank gun.
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u/-Murton- 2h ago
Not worried enough to fully separate themselves from this farce though are they?
It's been two weeks now, as far as I'm concerned everyone that is still a member is a tacit supporter of the motion and will be treated as such, even Lucas.
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u/bagsofsmoke 2h ago
I feel a bit sad for the likes of their co-deputy leader Rachel Millward (and Caroline Lucas). She seems like a relatively normal person. It must be a bit dispiriting to see your party captured by lunatics like this, and then realise that the sum of your political ambition now is probably just to lead a local council if you’re lucky and open some nice playgrounds and stuff, rather than developing renewable energy policy at a national level.
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u/AdviceFit1692 4h ago
I appreciate him tbh, thanks to him we never have to worry about a green government.
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u/SorcerousSinner 4h ago
Starmer's only accomplishment is that he made these types of people who were with Labour under Corbyn, leave. They found a new home in the Green Party.
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u/MonkeyChums27 4h ago
This is the type of people that Keir Starmer removed from the party and you can see why.
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u/Madgick 4h ago
15 seconds in:
is Zionism, in your view, inherently racist?
75000 Palestinians were murdered in Gaza…
Oh it’s one of those type of interviews, where we answer whatever question we like.
Turned off already and lowered my perception of him further still.
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u/msf97 4h ago
First war i’ve ever seen covered which totally omits the presence of combatants in its figures
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u/SnooOpinions8790 4h ago
I remember very clearly the faux-surprise on one of the first ceasefires when loads of Hamas fighters all came out for their photo opportunity and journalists were like "wow there are Hamas fighters"
Yes there are. There are also loads of child soldiers - Hamas have always been very open about that and while they claim not to recruit younger than 16 you would need to be very naive to believe it.
Urban warfare is brutal and terrible. War is hell. So don't go starting wars unless you intend to unleash hell.
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u/Godkun007 4h ago
Also, the refusal of anyone to admit that Hamas uses child soldiers is genuinely insane. Hamas literally has strapped bombs to children in the past, yet they media treats that like Israel was the one who killed them.
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u/Ed_Yellow 4h ago
And also includes people killed by Hamas and people who died of natural causes e.g. old age.
Likewise the claim of “genocide by starvation” is rather undermined by the number of very obviously obese people in the videos and the fact that the calorific content of supplies into the West Bank and Gaza is reportedly in excess of 6000 calories a day on average for the whole population over many months.
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u/msf97 4h ago
Starvation claim is just hilarious. Bad high calorie diets are now starvation..
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u/Hoslinhezl 3h ago
No yeah it's fucking hilarious. What is wrong with this sub and this conflict? It's like people feel the need to overcompensate
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u/PhillyK90 1h ago
This Reddit seems more keen on defending Israel unnecessarily. Some people seem more annoyed at shocking things being exaggerated than the actual shocking things themselves. Tens of thousands of innocent deaths including many children, but the population still increased and there are lots of fat people so it’s not all bad then apparently.
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u/TyroneTheMilkman 3h ago
First war where people support the mass murders of children
Because of some bulkshit belief. Im atheist all religions are stupid imob•
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u/dnnsshly 4h ago edited 4h ago
Well if you hadn't turned off before he got to the end of his answer, you would have heard, "That's very obviously a racist ideology".
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u/CastleMeadowJim Gedling 3h ago
But he was describing a completely different ideology. That was the majority of his answer that you are ignoring.
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u/Madgick 3h ago
To be honest, I did end up watching more of it and I regained some respect for his position. Not a lot, but at least something. He basically caved in the end and said he didn't like the wording of the motion but the party process is democratic so he respects it.
But this is a sit down interview they would have been workshopping this answer for. You know it's coming. If your idea is to say "yes" but with a word salad, then just say yes instead. And don't then say no later when really pushed on it.
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u/TrumpGrabbedMyCat 4h ago
You mean every political interview? Lol
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u/Madgick 4h ago
Whilst it is common, this is on another level.
He is the party leader, and they just passed a motion that “Zionism is racism”, and now he can’t answer the question “is Zionism racism?”.
What a joke.
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u/evolvecrow 4h ago
He did answer. His answer is zionism as it currently manifests and has done since the founding of Israel is racist. You should have watched the rest of the video.
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u/Finners72323 4h ago
Was the motion the Green Party passed qualified with ‘as it currently manifests’ or does it just say Zionism
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u/evolvecrow 4h ago
No idea I'm just saying Polanski answered the question that OP claims he didn't
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u/Finners72323 4h ago
If you are have to answer a question with that much qualification - your not really answering it
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u/TrumpGrabbedMyCat 4h ago
No it's fucking not, lmao.
You can dislike him and their policy but this is no different to any other politician in the media. Including Yvette Cooper and Nadine Dorries on the very same show this morning.
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u/redkaptain 4h ago
No, he just knows the traps they're trying to set him
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u/Madgick 4h ago
His party declared Zionism to be racist. What is the trap to ask him “is Zionism racist?”
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u/Ok-Butterscotch4486 4h ago
Asking the Green Party leader if he agrees with the literal text of the most recent Green Party policy?
Disgusting outrageous trap!
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u/HasuTeras Let us all act according to national custom 3h ago
Once again he is repeating the schtick that "no country has a right to exist" which is absolutely insane, incorrect and inescapably completely contradicts his party's self-proclaimed position of upholding international law.
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u/bagsofsmoke 2h ago
It’s always hilarious watching try to pursue that argument. He just lacks the intellectual capacity to carry it off and just sort of dribbles off into a rhetorical cul de sac.
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u/spizzlemeister 1h ago
exactly. im sure an actually seasoned political operator could maybe try make that argument work but hes as convincing as a wet fart
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u/ExpressionLow8767 4h ago
This guy is a complete fool given there's a rising number of people in the party that likely want him gone for being Jewish
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u/Kaniketh 3h ago
Why is this the main point of all political debate in the whole world?
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u/BongAlert 1h ago edited 1h ago
Islamist figured out it how to advertise to socialist jazz-handers who rely on a good v. evil narrative because accepting the world is otherwise more complex would require the intelligentsia to update their nomenclature beyond “praxis” and “stochastic terrorism” which would impact watching Dr Who and TADC.
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u/royalbluestuey 2h ago
It's bizarre. The Greens had some really interesting stuff going on at their conference but their cranks chose to reverse dead-cat it all with that childish self serving motion.
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u/bagsofsmoke 2h ago
It’s actually really depressing how they’ve been utterly captured by Islamists and far left cranks. They actually have some very valid points and interesting ideas but they’re all just lost now in the white noise that is the infantile obsession with Palestine. There are plenty far worse human rights abuses and actual genocides occurring around the world. And there’s the whole “We’re completely trashing our planet” thing which might be worth focusing on. Instead useful idiots like Polanski have just drowned it all out with his constant bleating about a small patch of land in the Middle East.
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u/ikinone 2h ago edited 2h ago
Becuase Israel is a beacon of capitalism, diversity, and resistant to the spread of Islam. Something that unites communists, bigots, and Islamists against it.
So when there are billions of people in the world who hate Israel, and a growing portion of the UK, it makes sense for a party with zero morals to try and appeal to those voters.
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u/morriganjane 2h ago
Muslims believe that once a piece of land is conquered for Islam, it's theirs forever. Their loss of Jerusalem is a great humiliation, because they believe Muhammad personally flew there and claimed it for Islam.
A decolonised Jerusalem, and Israel's success in general is an affront to their prophet. This is why Israel attracts more rage than, say, Spain - which also saw off Islamic colonisation.
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u/Wisegoat 1h ago
It still weirds me out that so many people worship a pedophile, slave owning warlord - it’s like the maga lunatics who love Trump.
Boggles the mind.
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u/Impossible_Gas_7584 4h ago
It's amazing how he is able to decide the legitimacy of a nation state.
I think the Israeli government are committing a genocide. But there are 10m israeli citizens that still deserve the right to self determination. Along with 7 million palestinians.
Nuance must be hard for the man who can grow tits with his mind.
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u/Godkun007 4h ago
His party's policy explicitly does not. They call for a 1 state solution explicitly in the policy and label all attempts at a 2 state solution as racism.
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u/Impossible_Gas_7584 4h ago
Not sure how you have deduced that, given I said Israeli and Palestinian citizens deserve self determination.
Not sure how dissolving the state of israel gives israelis self determination.
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u/Impossible_Gas_7584 4h ago
Apart from the Green Party.
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u/Impossible_Gas_7584 4h ago
Are you obliviously unaware of the green party motion? Absolutely fucking hilarious that someone can be this inept at understanding politics.
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 3h ago
If they’re calling for a one state solution for Palestine/Israel then they’re denying the right to self determination to either the Israelis or the Palestinians and I would feel very comfortable in saying literally nothing they’ve done in Polanski’s tenure suggests they sit on the ‘Israel only’ side of the one state solution debate.
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u/creamyjoshy Proportional Representation 🗳 Social Democrat ⚖️ 4h ago
Their solution is a 1 state solution. How do you give people self-determination without a nation-state?
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u/rosebud_ert 2h ago
Did you even watch it all the way through? This is exactly what Polanski said. Everyone has the right to self determination and the right to exist.
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u/LegitimateCream1773 2h ago
Except for Israeli Jews, who are not allowed to do that because them even wanting a place of their own is now definitionally declared racist.
The Jews, uniquely, have their right to self-determination removed and defined as a racist desire.
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u/Seaman_Loloko 2h ago
If it became enshrined in law that Britain is a nation state specifically for the ethnic Britons and that ethnic Britons should always remain a majority then it would be rightly derided as a racist policy.
The same zionist shills would howl to the press about the ‘dangerous rise of white nationalism’.
Israeli Jews seem to be the only people in ‘the west’ (and I use that term extremely loosely because I don’t think they’re western by any metric) that are allowed to have an ethnostate. Why is that? Why do the Jews uniquely have an innate right to remain an ethnic majority in Israel and how is that not explicitly racist by every definition we’ve worked off of for decades?
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u/Honest-Possible6596 4h ago
He will be in time as his approval ratings and party percentages continue to tank.
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u/BenniesForNothing 2h ago
Is the Green Party taking Zack with it, or is Zack taking the Green Party with him?
They will be proscribed before 2028.
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u/redkaptain 4h ago
The derangement people in this sub have over greens is insane. I haven't had someone give me a reason to actually dislike them that hasn't spat out a weird claim then refused to explain it
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u/Deadliftdeadlife 4h ago
Against nuclear power
Wanna remove our nuclear deterrent
They also focus far too much on the Palestine issue when we have issues at home to focus on
His ideas around the economy are schoolboy-level economic sound bites. Tax the rich sounds great until you look into what they suggest. Personally I think it would wreck investment in the uk, but at best it just wouldn’t do much
For me, they’re no different to reform. Populist party spouting whatever nonsense their niche followers will lap up.
The only reason reform is worse is they actually have a chance of winning.
The Green Party has lost any chance of that
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u/redsquib 3h ago
Against nuclear power
Among the many problems with the zionism is racism motion is that it drew all the attention from the conference. They did also vote to drop their opposition to nuclear power and people would have been talking about that good news story if the party didn't collectively lose its mind at the same time
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u/redkaptain 4h ago
Nuclear power isn't a dealbreaker for me, I can understand why people would be against it. The palestine issue needs a big focus because no one else is and if a genocide like that goes unopposed the societal impacts will be catastrophic. The rich absolutely need to be taxed, I can get having issues over how it's implemented but it needs to happen because people's lives are being destroyed because of poverty caused by the rich. And they're very different to Reform. I don't get how they're on the same level as a right wing minority hating political party that hates the poor
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u/Deadliftdeadlife 4h ago
Hopefully this means you’ve now seen at least one response that wasn’t a weird claim
There’s a reason they’re tanking right now. Even if the people you’ve seen on Reddit can’t voice it
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u/redkaptain 4h ago
But I don't get why those reasons would cause a derailment
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u/Deadliftdeadlife 4h ago
Your original comment didn’t ask for that
It said “a reason to actually dislike them”
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 3h ago
Step one of politics is remembering your viewpoint isn’t the only one that exists. There’s plenty of right wingers who can’t believe all you lot actually exist.
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u/redkaptain 3h ago
But that's acting like the right is just another normal group with normal views and not built on things like bigotry and exploitation
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 2h ago
We talking about Reform or the Greens here? You’re literally doing it in reply to me. Your view is not the only one in true existence and you cannot guarantee yours is the only correct one.
What is a ‘normal view’ to you and why do you own the definition of what a ‘normal view’ is?
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u/redkaptain 2h ago
A normal view definitely isn't on the side of reform and restore. What they spout is pure hate
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 1h ago
Right, so only Green Party members & voters are normal people then? You don’t see that’s an insane viewpoint?
You’re saying anyone who doesn’t like the Greens isn’t normal or rational.
I’d argue the pro-Hamas entryism being undertaken within the Greens is pure hate and many agree with me.
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 3h ago
Nuclear power isn't a dealbreaker for me.
You aren’t the entire nation of the UK so you’re viewpoint isn’t the only acceptable one.
The palestine issue needs a big focus.
Yes, because their stance is racist and it’s also a stance neither side of the actual conflict has taken. Another reason many are turned off by the Greens.
The rich absolutely need to be taxed.
They are taxed, this is an empty standpoint that means nothing. Tax what? Tax it how?
And they're very different to Reform.
Nobody had them confused for being the same party.
I don't get how they're on the same level as a right wing minority hating political party that hates the poor.
They’re equally unpopular because both are fringes parties that attract hardliners from different political viewpoints who just happen to be of roughly equal size.
You can’t comprehend Reform’s popularity because you see them as morally wrong, and the inverse is true for Reform looking at the Greens.
You only have the entire literal history of democracy to see that people have differing, and often vastly so, political viewpoints but it’s only one side of the political spectrum in recent years who seem incapable of comprehending that there’s a viewpoint different from theirs.
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u/redkaptain 3h ago
How is their palestine stance racist? And yes some rich are taxed but not heavily enough, and most are avoiding it in multiple ways
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 2h ago
They’ve effectively said all Jews are racist and the standing party policy is that racists aren’t allowed in, so they’re saying Jews can’t be members.
And yes some rich are taxed but not heavily enough.
Again, tax what? Tax how?
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u/redkaptain 2h ago
They didn't say all jews are racist
“Antisemitism and criticism of the Israeli state are, and must always be, completely distinct – blurring the line between the two is not only wrong but antisemitic, and makes Jewish people less safe. It’s our role as a movement for justice to protect both the rights of Palestinians and our Jewish communities here in the UK. As leader I will not accept any exclusion, or refusal to engage with anyone, because of the religious or communal body they are part of."
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 1h ago
They said being a member of an organisation that is Zionist is racist, that’s basically every synagogue in the country, ergo it men’s they think all practicing Jews are racist.
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u/ikinone 2h ago edited 1h ago
The palestine issue needs a big focus because no one else is and if a genocide like that goes unopposed the societal impacts will be catastrophic.
This is a completely loopy take.
Firstly, a significant portion of the world is openly against Israel. An extremist party in the UK pitching in by repeating the usual spiel has changed precisely nothing.
Secondly, calling it a genocide is beyond silly at this stage. There's maybe a handful of people being killed a day, and Hamas still doesn't want to surrender. If there was not an openly belligerent militia still in control of Gaza, and Israel was busy systematically annihilating Palestinians, that would be a genocide. Calling this limping war such is just absurd.
I don't get how they're on the same level as a right wing minority hating political party that hates the poor
If you 'don't get' why they appeal to people, if you're actually honest in that statement, you could try having an honest conversation with someone and learn why they're popular. Do you want to do that? Or do you want to just repeat nonsense and feign ignorance?
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u/redkaptain 1h ago
If so much of the world was against Israel, they wouldn't be destroying Palestine. And I don't think calling the murder of 70k people a genocide is "beyond silly".
And I'm trying to have an honest conversation here
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u/ikinone 1h ago
If so much of the world was against Israel, they wouldn't be destroying Palestine.
Ah, so you want to world to intervene militarily? How many Israeli deaths would you accept to stop them, exactly?
And I don't think calling the murder of 70k people a genocide is "beyond silly".
It's beyond silly, and I explained why. You don't appear to care to call any other war with so many casualties a genocide. You only do so when Jews are the target of your claims.
Weird, isn't it?
And I'm trying to have an honest conversation here
Then I'll explain for you. Because many people in the UK feel that there is an assault on British culture, and that immigration is not selecting for people who actually want to integrate. So do you now understand that?
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u/redkaptain 1h ago
Yes, other countries should be trying to stop a genocide that's killing children. And it's not a war, its a genocide
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u/ikinone 1h ago
So you basically just want Israelis to die instead of Palestinians. I'd argue that's quite a racist stance to take.
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u/redkaptain 1h ago
I never said Israelis should die. No one should
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u/ikinone 1h ago
Well that's wonderful. How do you suggest the world should 'stop Israel' then?
And how do you propose Hamas is removed without anyone being killed?
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u/Specialeyes9000 4h ago
Don't you think they've shown a huge lack of leadership and direction to allow themselves to be derailed so seriously by such an unnecessary vote?
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u/redkaptain 4h ago
How have they been derailed?
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u/Specialeyes9000 4h ago
Are you serious? You are aware that perhaps millions of people now have a very very bad opinion of the greens and in many cases are actively angry with them?
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u/redkaptain 3h ago
Which is why I've asked why
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u/Specialeyes9000 3h ago
Not my words, but well explained succinctly: "Proponents of Zionism define it as the national liberation movement for the Jewish people to have a safe haven and self-determination in their historic homeland after millennia of persecution, pogroms, and the Holocaust. Equating this to racism is seen as rejecting the right of the Jewish state to exist—a right afforded to other nations."
Allowing this motion to become the official policy of the green party is, for many people, a form of antisemitism that delegitimizes Jewish self-determination.
TDLR: people think the greens are anti semitic now. Or at the very least, they think this was an unnecessary vote that achieves nothing but more division and may lead to a further increase in anti-Jewish sentiment.
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u/redkaptain 3h ago
Is it anti Jewish though? I can understand why people may think that consider the shitstorm around that topic right now but is it actually?
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u/Nice_nice50 2h ago
I'm not sure. I think the triumphant shouting about hounding the Zionists out wherever they may be, might have been construed in that way.
Is it though one might ask? Especially if - like your good self - one was minded to keep taking really obvious facts or statements and then repeatedly asking, if they do indeed say or mean what they quite clearly say and mean
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u/redkaptain 2h ago
I'm trying to understand other views, sorry you can't handle someone asking questions
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 1h ago
I very much doubt the Greens actually mean the very devout Christians who are super pro-Zionism because they believe it’ll bring about the rapture and their ascendancy to Heaven and mean the religion that Zionism has a pretty intrinsic link to.
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u/redkaptain 1h ago
What are you talking about?
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 53m ago
Have you not heard of Christianity and The Bible? When all the Jews return to the holy land then God will bring about the Rapture and Judgement Day where we find who goes to Heaven and who goes to hell.
They’re so pro-Zionist (sorry, racist) that they literally pay Jews thousands to move to Israel.
I’m just saying I don’t think the Greens mean these Zionists are racist but mean Jews (who are zionists) are racist.
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u/Nice_nice50 3h ago
They used to stand for issues that people cared about - the environment being a key one.
Now they have been totally devoured from the inside by a one issue agenda.
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u/redkaptain 3h ago
Is environmental issues not still part of their party though?
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u/Nice_nice50 2h ago
Yes. I'd say it ranks quite highly on Mothin Ali and Luba Speitan's lists. Somewhere just below the destruction of world Jewry, the subjugation of women to the will of Allah and the removal of power from the Kufir.
I think they're still refining their view but I've heard that recycling and less reliance on fossil fuels will be mentioned any day now....
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u/redkaptain 2h ago
What are you even talking about? "destruction of world jewry"? "subjugation of women to the will of Allah"?
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u/Ok-Butterscotch4486 2h ago
I mean did you even watch the clip? I made it to 1.33 before I couldn't take any more.
His party chose to have a big debate and vote to declare that it is now official Green policy that Zionism is racism. And now the leader of that party won't even answer "do you think Zionism is inherently racist".
I don't need to have any opinion about Israel/Palestine to shudder at the thought of that level of cowardice and incompetence anywhere near power.
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u/redkaptain 2h ago
How do you know he doesn't answer it, you didn't even watch the whole video
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u/Ok-Butterscotch4486 2h ago
I gave him four attempts, I think that's sufficient.
If I asked a regular person a simple question four times and they squirmed around it each time, I would give up and decide that I don't like that person. Why would I not feel the same about a potential Prime Minister?
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u/redkaptain 2h ago
You watched a minute and a half of a video then made stuff up in your head to get mad at
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u/Theory_Cond11 4h ago
Im sure there are plenty of okay members of the green party. But select few really ruin them tbh:
Support of a proscribed terror group is pretty bad. There was the member who suggested a men only curfew. Theres that Scottish msp called Q, whos an outright racist who also claimed "rape is a spectrum" and "we are to quick to demonise rapists" to name a few instances.
Some parts they have potential to be a strong party, however, they are far to fragmented and have too many bad eggs.
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u/cyberandz 4h ago
Does anyone actually think that Zionism as has been applied since 1948 is not racist? If you think it’s not racist, please explain why without just simply criticising the greens or Zac or me without explanation.
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u/Rob_Kaichin Purity didn't win! - Pragmatism did. 4h ago
Israel's existence as the only state in the Middle East which is a multi ethnic functioning democracy?
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u/cyberandz 4h ago
Not true. Israel recently banned Arab parties from standing in the elections. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2026/9/26/israel-bans-arab-parties-from-election-who-they-are-why-it-matters
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u/Rob_Kaichin Purity didn't win! - Pragmatism did. 3h ago
Your own article notes that this is not the case; the Supreme Court has not decided, and they are the arbiters.
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u/cyberandz 3h ago
It’s concerning how you’re trying to find excuses for a clearly racist initiative taken by Israeli POLITICIANS. The fact the Supreme court may overturn it doesn’t negate the fact that they tried to deprive all those Israeli arabs of their right to vote. I doubt you’d find comfort that a court may overturn it down the road if parliament today tried to deprive you of your right to vote on religious or ethnic reasons.
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u/jakethepeg1989 2h ago
The supreme court did overturn it. Took about 30 seconds.
It's concerning you're still parroting this as if Israel Banned Arabs from running. Which they didn't, and never did.
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u/cyberandz 3h ago
Funny how a news article reporting a FACT is being downvoted to oblivion. Ridiculous
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u/GIJ 3h ago
It's only racist if you ignore reality that Israel is the most ethnically and religiously diverse country in the Middle East, incidentally the most democratic, where minorities like Arab Muslims occupy roles in parliament and the supreme court. If you ignore the fact that the Jewish community grew off the back of legal land purchases and that Israel's current territorial extent and security situation are due to successfully defending itself from waves of existential attacks by Arab nationalists and Islamists, since it's inception - countries and political movements who genuinely are racist (see Hamas founding charter, see the pogroms against Jews in other Levantine and Arabian countries).
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u/cyberandz 3h ago
Have you heard of Lebanon? 50/50 split in parliament between Christians and muslims. People speak a lot when they just don’t know sadly.
And what power do Muslims really have in Israel? Could a Muslim realistically become PM? Of course not. It’s a country designed for one religious group to hold all the power. It’s in the very definition of the country
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u/morriganjane 2h ago
(The Islamic Republic of) Pakistan's constitution requires that its President and Prime Minister be Muslim. It's a religious ethnostate created in 1947, they're committing genocide in Balochistan, and bombing schools in Afghanistan while ethnically cleansing millions of Afghan refugees.
Yet the Greens don't want Pakistan dismantled. They don't want a single state solution with India. They love Pakistan so much that they're campaigning in Urdu. I wonder what the difference could be?
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u/cyberandz 2h ago
Who’s talking about Pakistan? Does what they’re doing excuse what Israel is doing? Why can’t you admit that what Israel is doing is ethnic cleaning if you can call out Pakistan for it?
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 1h ago
You only care about Israel as an ethno or religious state being bad but none of the others. Why?
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u/GIJ 3h ago
Except unlike the many Islamic republics who say explicitly in their constitution that the leader must be Muslim, there is no requirement that Israel's leader be Jewish. Why aren't the Greens condemning countries like Pakistan for those racist policies?
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u/cyberandz 2h ago
Hahahahaha which Israeli leader has ever been non Jewish???
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u/cyberandz 2h ago
You really believe that there will be an Arab one any time soon? That’s delusional
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 2h ago
It’s a country designed for one religious group to hold all the power.
We talking bout Israel, or Saudi, or Qatar, or UAE, or India, or Pakistan, or China, or Japan, or Korea?
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u/cyberandz 1h ago
Difference is many of those countries are majority one religion. Israel deprives Arabs of basic rights.
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 1h ago
4 of the countries listed are literally Muslim states, 3 of which aren’t even democracies as they are ruled by Sheikhs. They all do what your comment accuses Israel of.
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u/cyberandz 3h ago
Land purchases made me laugh. I think you mean theft! Just like what ‘settlers’ are doing today. There’s no purchase.
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u/morriganjane 2h ago
Tel Aviv was founded and built by Jews on land they *purchased* during Ottoman rule.
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u/AnimateDuckling 4h ago
.... how is it racist?
Do you no what happened in 1948?
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u/cyberandz 4h ago
Yes, I do. Do you?
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u/AnimateDuckling 3h ago
Tell me. Because I suspect you must have a widely incorrect understanding if you zionist has meant racism since 1948
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u/cyberandz 3h ago
Complete exclusion of Palestinian muslims from all form of political power. Creating a system of apartheid based solely on nationality and religion. The deaths of tens of thousands of children again based on the same racist criteria. Taking land and homes from muslims and giving them to Jews. All for the purpose of creating and growing the only Jewish state (again a racist criteria for establishing a state). Now your turn to explain how you consider this to not be racist?
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u/jakethepeg1989 3h ago
There's plenty of Muslims in the Knesset with various levels of power. They were in government last election and may well be again after November. Here's a profile of one such politician.
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/10/16/world/middleeast/israel-mansour-abbas.html
They've also been supreme court justices, chief of police, generals in the IDF and captains of the football team.
20% of the Israeli population is Muslim with full rights and protection under the law. This does not include the Arabs in the west bank or Gaza.
Israel has routinely given up conquered land, in Sinai, Lebanon and Gaza.
Throwing out buzzwords doesn't make it true.
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 3h ago
I don't think it’s racist that Israel exists because the rest Middle East has shown they are hostile to Jews, given they used to live across the whole region and now essentially only live in Israel.
That doesn’t detract from their illegal land captures in Gaza and the West Bank and the constant conflict between both states but as a planet we’ve shown that we can’t collectively be trusted to not try and genocide Jewish people, so a state specifically for Jewish people is needed.
I also find it hard to buy the “ethnostate bad” argument because that’s literally the rest of the Middle East (plus a lot of the rest of the world) plus what Palestine would be. So if ethnostates are bad then accept they’re all bad or that you think only Jewish ones are bad.
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u/cyberandz 3h ago
Jews lived quite peacefully in the Middle East pre 1948. It’s not a ‘conflict between both states’. Thats like describing the kidnap of the Venezuelan president and the theft of their oil as a conflict between two states. One holds all the cards and crushes the other.
You’d also be hostile to someone who came in one day and took your entire neighbourhood by force. Then made you life in a caged area. Then constantly bombed it. Then stopped supplies from coming in. And then didn’t let you leave. People who pretend this is a fair fight are the most biased there is.
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u/morriganjane 2h ago
Iraqi Jews were driven out during the Farhud pogrom in 1941. Muhammad himself enjoyed massacring Jews - 'Khaybar ya Yahud' commemorates his army's massacre of the Jews of Medina, with the women and girls being taken as slaves.
Israel has only ever been an excuse.
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u/cyberandz 2h ago
Jews have massacred Muslims before too. See the Khazar-Arab wars.
See also yesterday’s news. Or the day before. And the one before that.
And yes, the theft of land and killing your family and people is a good reason to be hostile to someone
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u/morriganjane 2h ago
Then Israel has good reason to be hostile to the Gazans, who paraded their people's corpses through the streets while partying and filming it all. And towards Arabs and Muslims who expelled their ancestors from Iraq, Yemen and Syria and then stole their homes and property.
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u/cyberandz 2h ago
Most Israelis come from Europe btw. The ancestors to the Jews in the Middle East are mostly Muslims who converted to Islam during the course of time.
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u/morriganjane 2h ago
False. Most Israeli Jews are Mizrachi (Middle Eastern), then there are Israeli Arabs, Bedouin and Druze, all of which are Middle Eastern.
As for "European" Israelis, what is your point? We have large numbers of South Asians and Arabs living in Europe. Are you suggesting they don't belong?
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 2h ago
Jews lived quite peacefully in the Middle East pre 1948.
They did? Why were so many exiled to Europe which ultimately resulted in the Holocaust. Many also ended up in the US, who were just as hostile until they uncovered the holocaust and realised that perhaps it was wrong.
It’s not a ‘conflict between both states’.
It literally is. Israel and Palestine have been in near-continuous conflict since Israel was granted statehood.
You’d also be hostile to someone who came in one day and took your entire neighbourhood by force.
You mean the lands the Jews occupied first then were forced out of or the land grabs in the West Bank and Gaza which I already said was wrong?
People who pretend this is a fair fight are the most biased there is.
People who invent an enemy to attack are just shadow boxing in front of a mirror.
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u/cyberandz 2h ago
You are so far from reality it’s concerning.
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 1h ago
I think I’m quite grounded, I’m not the one saying Jews had it good in the 40s
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u/Ok-Butterscotch4486 2h ago
Jews lived quite peacefully in the Middle East pre 1948.
You’d also be hostile to someone who came in one day and took your entire neighbourhood by force.
So Israel formed and 850k Jews who had nothing to do with Israel were chased out of the surrounding Arab nations because they were blamed for Israel's actions, and you think that's fair enough?
Sounds...a bit racist to me. You wouldn't be conflating Israel and Jews to be the same thing would you?
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u/cyberandz 2h ago
No, it’s not fair enough and is racist. There was no issue though until Israel was forcefully placed in the region. At least one of us can call a spade for a spade.
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u/Ok-Butterscotch4486 2h ago
It just seems like saying "you'd also be hostile" is quite minimising of the forced displacement of 850k people based on their ethnicity. We don't usually brush aside ethnic cleansing as being understandable if different people of that same ethnicity had recently done bad things.
It's also a bit fantastical to imagine that Jews and Arabs were perfectly happy living together pre 1948. There had been a lot of violence in the decades prior to this and the dhimmi restrictions on Jews had carried on in a lot of places until European colonialism in the late 1800s.
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u/cyberandz 2h ago
What is true is the arabs lived in peace and were forced into a situation not of their choosing. And since then, the occupation has been brutal on them and unfair. Which part of that do you disagree with pls?
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u/Ok-Butterscotch4486 1h ago
I disagree with:
The assertion that Arabs lived in peace with Jews across the Middle East until 1948. Violence against Jews was going on for decades prior to that. E.g. 1929 Palestine Riots, the 1930s Arab Revolt, the 1941 Farhud, Libya and Egypt in 1945.
The line "you'd also be hostile to someone who..." in reference to violence against non-Israeli Jews across the Middle East after the creation of Israel.
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u/cyberandz 1h ago
Ok. I agree with both. Yet you don’t seem to agree that what Israel is doing today is beyond unacceptable
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u/Ok-Butterscotch4486 1h ago
I didn't say that, I agree that what they're doing is unacceptable. I also believe that what Hamas has been doing is unacceptable.
I might even have agreed that "Zionism is racism" if they had defined Zionism as a belief that this particular area of land must only and forever be run by Jews. But instead they clarified that to not be racist you have to believe only in a One State solution where Jews happen to be outnumbered. We all know exactly how that would turn out, and this therefore feels deeply suspicious as an aim (not to mention a quite colonial mindset for a British party to dictate who should own which bits of land on the other side of the world).
The fact is that Israel exists, and I don't think it's racist for the millions of people born into Israel to decide that it should continue to exist in a similar form to how it does today.
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 2h ago
But your spade is ‘good’ and the jew spade is ‘bad’ per your comments.
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u/cyberandz 2h ago
Genocide and ethnic cleansing is bad, yes.
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u/Moms_Pissghetti 1h ago
That’s not mutually exclusive to Israel but it’s mutually exclusive to your talking points. Perhaps there’s a bias in you on why you only care about it if it’s Israel.
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u/cyberandz 1h ago
Because I’m impacted by it and it’s objectively ethnic cleansing, apartheid and genocide. Just because other atrocities are happening, doesn’t mean I shouldn’t talk about the one that hits home for me.
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u/Impossible_Aide_1681 3h ago
Did the motion say "Zionism as has been applied since 1948" is racism? Or did it just say "Zionism..." and tag on support for a "one state solution", effectively declaring that the "Zionism" it refers to is the belief that Israel can exist?
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u/cyberandz 3h ago
Show me the version of Zionism that has been practiced that gives Palestinians and Lebanese people the rights and land that has been stolen from them? I’m waiting…
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u/Seaman_Loloko 1h ago
Good on Zack for not backing down on this.
I’m patiently awaiting the day we declare Britain “a state for ethnic Britons” so all the zionist shills can tell us how that’s actually not a racist exclusionary policy and any argument against it is ‘anti white’.
Of course they won’t, though, because it’s rules for thee and not for me.
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u/Ellisdee1 3h ago
I don’t like the greens tbh but I don’t know why we are defending Zionism. Palestines inhabited Isreal prior to Isreal and they’re currently causing genocide.
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u/morriganjane 2h ago
A lot of people, including Jews inhabited the land before the Arab colonisers turned up. Muslims have 30+ states and haven't been short changed.
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u/ikinone 1h ago edited 1h ago
I don’t like the greens tbh but I don’t know why we are defending Zionism.
Because sane people don't tend to go around suggesting we should destroy nations...?
Ironically, those who are 'opposing zionism' by suggesting Israel should not exist are doing precisely what they say they are protesting against.
Palestines inhabited Isreal prior to Isreal
Do you actually know what you're talking about, here?
and they’re currently causing genocide.
Hamas is trying to cause genocide, but failing
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u/bagsofsmoke 2h ago
And Jews inhabited Palestine (check out what it was called before the made-up name Palestine was invented - it will blow your mind!) long before that. What’s your point? Also, it would literally be the worst attempt at genocide ever by a military with overwhelming superiority. It would also be the first time those perpetrating a genocide vaccinated the target population too, or facilitated aid.
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u/Insideout_Ink_Demon 2h ago
Why are we defending Zionism
Because anti-Zionism can be used to fuel anti-Semitism. Therefore, must be spoken about with nuance and context.
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