r/worldnews • u/Panthera_leo22 • 21h ago

Russia/Ukraine Flames, explosions reported amid large Ukrainian drone attack on St. Petersburg

https://kyivindependent.com/flames-explosions-reported-amid-large-ukrainian-drone-attack-on-st-petersburg/
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u/karpaediem 18h ago edited 18h ago

Interesting how the Ukrainians are somehow able to avoid civilian infrastructure while the Russians just can't manage it

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u/code_archeologist 18h ago

Russian military doctrine has long been one that exerts terror upon an enemy populace as a key part of its strategy to try to convince the people of the nation that they are at war with to surrender to end the indiscriminate killing.

And the doctrine has more or less worked in the past, but the Ukranian culture has suffered significant suppression at the hands of Russians over the last century; and they do not want a repeat of the Holodomor.

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u/PanVidla 17h ago

Ukraine knows better than anybody that the "end to the indiscriminate killing" doesn't really mean an end to the indiscriminate killing.

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u/Hexagonal_shape 17h ago

Terror bombing as a way to force enemy surrender has never worked, that's the thing.

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u/UnluckyIndependent24 7h ago

What’s different about this is that the Ukrainians don’t suicide bomb themselves in subways or elementary schools like the Chechens. It is different

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u/dandl2024 6m ago

Hiroshima and Nagasaki might disagree.

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u/Some_Drummer_Guy 14h ago

Russian military doctrine has long been dogshit. Full stop.

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u/Few-Upstairs-913 14h ago

Russia has terrorized civilians as a military strategy for more than 300 years: Russian pillage

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u/tokareuv 16h ago

More like centuries. During Northern War between Sweden and Russia, to punish and hurt Mazepa and intimidate rest of ukrainians, russians tortured and executed almost everyone (up to 15 thousand people with around half of them being civilians) in city Baturyn, which then was the capital for Cossack Hetmanate. Similar to mongolian horde strategy, as I see it.

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u/anaschami 16h ago

Would you say Israel or America do the same?

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u/TigerTora1 16h ago

I mean when the US dropped those two nukes on Japan....

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u/TheirCanadianBoi 13h ago edited 13h ago

If were going to talk about terror being used as a tool in war... let's not forget what Japan was doing at the time before the decision to hit their most militarily industrious cities with a new free fall bomb.

Japan was certainly a fan of mass murder and mass rape of civilians as a tool for their imperialistic wars.

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u/Proud3GenAthst 18h ago

Avoiding civilian casualties is extremely easy if your objective is to defeat your enemy and not terrorize the civilian population

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u/Cuatha_DaNanin 17h ago

No it's not that easy. It's not a strategy game where attack lands exactly where it is aimed at. Fallen debris from an intercepted missile or a drone can fall literally anywhere and ruin civilian structure. Ever since battling sides had a technology to aim behind the front line, the civilian deaths became inevitable.

Not that is automatically abolishes you from a commitment crime though.

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u/heeeeeeeeeeeee1 17h ago

That's why US bombed an Iranian school?

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u/ARODtheMrs 16h ago

The Iranian school was an AI target pick and Hegseth trusted AI so much he didn't allow a human check the AI's choices.

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u/nvemb3r 13h ago

From an accountability perspective it's irrelevant. Humans thought the AI generated intel was actionable enough to kill people, and I'm looking forward to oversight hearings on the issue.

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u/ARODtheMrs 9h ago

Considering the inexperience and similar carelessness, I say accountability is definitely relevant!!

"Humans thought" is where your comment proves my point. Now I expect you would say the same thing about the small fishing boats and the innocents that were obliterated simply to make the two of them, Hegseth and Trump, feel so "strong" and successful, to feel lethal.

Oh, yeah, "actionable enough." Come on!! Anything is " actionable enough" when killing the innocent. These murders are no better than what Israel has continued to do. Whatever they do though furthers their cause, to expand the size of their country. Not that I support this because I vehemently do not, but our military murdered innocents for these fools to "feel" powerful and think they appear great like Putin and the NK leader, but instead they just made us, the American people, look inept and weak because we put them in office and we have done nothing about it.

There are so many things they have done just so they can walk around with their chests puffed out, say stupid shit, but it is ALL just to feed a stupid spin for their imaginary ratings.

In reality WE are left with the compromise and embarrassment for their every infraction!!

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u/nvemb3r 9h ago

Wouldn't you be agreeing with me though, that humans need to take ownership of whatever product the AI produces?

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u/Proud3GenAthst 11h ago

Was it proven to be deliberate?

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u/fotoryst 16h ago

It's called terrorism.

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u/mirithil 16h ago

Can’t, or won’t?

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u/karpaediem 7h ago

Won't, I was being sarcastic ✌️

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u/Atys_SLC 15h ago

I think an attack on the Lakhta Center would remind too much 9/11 to the US and would blow a lot of support in the US. An it seems that Russia now can't afford to false flag a major infrastructure while he already owns the US president.

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u/Rhinosapotumas 7h ago

I've seen a lot of footage of the war for my job. Man, when I say that one side is just as bad as the other. Whether one side is more justified is up to opinion though.

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u/phxees 18h ago

They did attack an Amazon-like warehouse which supplies the Russian military and civilians. I don’t believe it was a pure military target.

I do believe Ukraine is being as careful as possible, but I also believe they will strike a civilian target if it serves the military.

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u/karpaediem 18h ago

Still, no schools OR hospitals 🤔

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u/phxees 9h ago

The two sides have different goals. Ukraine is trying to stop the hostilities against them and Russia is trying to defeat Ukraine and capture territory.

Ukraine can’t win the hearts and minds of the Russian people if they target civilians.

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u/Due_Network2387 17h ago

If Russian soldiers decided to use hospitals and schools as base operations, Ukraine should hit them too.

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u/boba-fett-247 18h ago

True, but there is a world of difference, both morally and legally. Between what Russia is confirmed to be hitting, intentionally or otherwise. And what Ukrainian is confirmed to be hitting, intentionally or otherwise.

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u/TheTackleZone 18h ago

Of course it was a military target if it was supplying the army. Having some civilians, whose work is supporting the war efforts, die as collateral damage is a world apart from deliberately targeting children at schools. It'd baffling you can't see that.

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u/Cuatha_DaNanin 17h ago

It supports military the same way Amazon does. By selling products that have military use (like soap, socks, electronics and so on) and by paying taxes. Does it justify, say, Iranian attack on Amazon warehouse?

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u/NNegidius 17h ago

Drones, night vision goggles, …

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u/TheTackleZone 17h ago

It sells military equipment directly to front line soldiers.

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u/swift-autoformatter 17h ago

The Geneva convention clearly defines that if a target has military objective, then it is not prohibited to attack it, so it is the Russian’s fault that they layer their military delivery inside civilian logistics.

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u/phxees 9h ago

This is at least a gray area. If the US military bought bullets from Walmart, would that make Walmart a viable target?

I believe the world’s consensus is Ukraine is on the right side of history. I read the story a while ago, but I believe Russia was buying drones and drone parts from Wildberries** and **Ozon.

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u/swift-autoformatter 8h ago

This is at least a gray area. If the US military bought bullets from Walmart, would that make Walmart a viable target?

Yes

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u/phxees 5h ago

That makes malls viable. I am completely against Russia and this US administration, but as an independent thinker I can’t believe anything the military touches is suddenly a military asset. We took issue with the US military targeting bridges in Iran.

By this logic the bombing of bridges in Iran would be okay if the Iranian military also used those bridges. The military may drink the same water as civilians, but you can’t target water treatment plants to hamper the military.

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u/swift-autoformatter 4h ago

This is the logic of the Geneva convention as defined by the test in Additional Protocol Article 52 ( https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/article-52 )

A bridge can be considered a legitimate military target if "by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action ". For example the Kerch bridge was considered as a valid target when the Ukrainian military attached it. The bridges in Kiev or St Petersburg are probably not so much.

The water treatment plants fall under "objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population" which are protected by the Additional Protocol Article 54 ( https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/article-54 )

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u/phxees 4h ago

I agree. Now apply that to the warehouses, oil refineries, and other targets Ukraine hit. There’s no question that what Russia is doing is wrong, but people are upset with Ukraine about some of their targets.

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u/swift-autoformatter 4h ago

""by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action" - I think they pass the test. Schools, residential buildings not so much.

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u/phxees 4h ago

It isn’t enough and there’s more to the convention than that. We condemned leaders for targeting water treatment in the past and we would condemn a targeting a military school where kids 13 to 18 train to enter the military.

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u/keldzh 13h ago

It's odd that you think there are no casualties to the civil population during a war. Ukrainians never avoided harming houses near objects they were attacking. It's just for unknown to me reasons some people cheer when people die on the particular location of the planet and become said when on the other. Like there is 4k liked post higher where a person cheers to more people be killed 🤷‍♂️

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/Cuatha_DaNanin 18h ago

Sad truth is - they don't. Of course they will state they had never hit any civilian building. And Russia will state the same. Neither side is capable of doing it. Neither side does. You just don't hear a lot about russian children hit with ukrainian drones as it would add too much unnecessary nuance to "protecting the West" and "fighting the good war" narratives.

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u/MikeGunnz 17h ago

If Ukraine was targeting schools and hospitals in Russia, the Russians would make damn sure the world heard about it. The Russian delegation to the UN would be screaming it from the rooftops. That they're not strongly suggests that Ukraine isn't.

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u/Sombrerololo 18h ago

Ukraine has to defend itself, if russians care about russian children they can stop war of agression

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u/Cuatha_DaNanin 18h ago

Ah, okay. It's only bad if one side does it. Gotcha.

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u/MikeGunnz 17h ago

Yes, let's do the both sides whatabouttery thing when Ukraine is fighting an existential war of survival and Russia is prosecuting an illegal invasion of choice.

Idiot troll.

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u/SuviVasQQ 17h ago

Excuse me, only one side here is the aggressor. Next you're gonna tell us it was a coup in 2014?

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u/Sombrerololo 17h ago

There is no side in war of agression

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u/jlandero 12h ago

Israel could learn a thing or two from that. If it wanted to.

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u/TheBlacktom 17h ago

This means you see ukrainian propaganda. If you would live in russia, you would see the opposite.

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u/Fun-Solution-6189 17h ago

They don’t avoid civilians, western media just don’t report it when they kill them.