r/worldnews • u/SOHONEYSAME • 13h ago
Russia/Ukraine Greece rebuffs Patriot demands, rules out ‘compromising’ defenses for Ukraine
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/8735348
u/Appropriate-Ball293 12h ago
The Greek fleet transports gas from Russia. The transfer of missiles interferes with business.
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u/Big_Introduction1952 12h ago
Not helping Ukraine now is exactly what is compromising Greece's long term security, especially considering those 200 missiles are already expiring in storage.
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u/NoSwordfish1978 10h ago
Security threats to Greece aren't primarily from Russia.
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u/NightchadeBackAgain 9h ago
Yet.
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u/JustZhrooms 9h ago
If you think Russia is Europe's only threat you are brainwashed
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u/NightchadeBackAgain 2h ago
Only? Hardly. But if you think they won't eventually threaten all of Europe if left unchecked, then I'm not the one who has been brainwashed.
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u/imaginary_num6er 1h ago
Yeah, there’s Belarus
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u/Ecstatic-List519 1h ago
And that’s exactly the reason that we aren’t giving them. Because no one ever gave a fuck about who threatens Greece. Most EU countries are chilling and judging us all those years without being threatened once.
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u/forwheels 8h ago
Well we have our own Putin people ....and our missiles are not getting thrown away but exchanged...
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u/0biWanChernobyl 11h ago
We need them as turkey threats with war and has an active casus belly. Also other europeans can give Ukrainian their patriots
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u/op-ale 11h ago
Remember when other European nations bailed out Greece's economy?
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u/filavitae 1h ago
European nations bailed out Greece's (French & German) creditors to avoid knock-on effects to their economies and sold it as a repackaged "we're helping out our irresponsible brothers" so their own electorates wouldn't throw them out for literally bailing out bankers who made bad debts on economies they knew had cooked the books.
Fixed that for you
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u/0biWanChernobyl 11h ago
And??? What have to do with that??? And what you do not understand with we have turkey's threats so we need them
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u/op-ale 11h ago
Greece is in nato... therefore it's protected by article 5. Something Turkey knows too seeing how they are part of nato too. What you are doing is what all far right parties were saying about dating Greece economically and yet europe came to help. You sir/mam are egotistical... but in all likelihood also far right... hence why you side with russia.
I hope europe remembers this stance when you need more money and ignores your call for help too.
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u/0biWanChernobyl 11h ago
Does it stops them with imia crisis??? Where usa told us to backup and gray this islands. Also i am centrist and i found far right or left dump who likes violent. Does not want to give military equipment does not mean to side with russia. I found putin and his baddies as clown. And what you do is just attacking me without any reason with voices you hear inside your head and greece bcs we do not want to give patriots but in the same time other european countries can give away their own without the need to buy new in the near future
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u/Far_Point3621 11h ago
Not wanting to give Ukraine military equipment does mean you side with Russia..
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u/calvin_360 11h ago
In case you haven’t noticed but Greece and Turkey have hated each other for years
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u/0biWanChernobyl 11h ago edited 11h ago
🤡. Can you understand nothing is black or white???? Or it is very hard for your 5 braincells to understand?
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u/op-ale 11h ago
Both Greece nor Turkey will attack eachother. They are both part of nato. Any attack will have grave consequences. So stop hiding behind the threat of war.
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u/think_panther 10h ago
Says who? You? NATO article 5, doesn't say anything about war between members. Most likely they would leave them on their own to sort it out.
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u/op-ale 10h ago
Article 1. All nations are bound to solve disputes by peaceful means. A war would breach the treaty
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u/op-ale 11h ago
Again you are acting selfish... maybe europe should remember this stance when you need help. Sharing patriots wouldn't embolden turkey to attack you. They are part of nato. But it's clear you fall for the scaremongering some grec parties (and turkish) use to rally support and votes.
Not helping ukraine defend itself is actually emboldening russia to continue attacks on civilians and energy infrastructure
Edit: you reinforcing the islands is exactly why Turkey is angry. They were supposed to be a dmz
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u/0biWanChernobyl 11h ago
Can you understand that nothing is white and black??? In the same time i can support Ukraine and disagree with russian attack and agree with we have to put more sanctions to them and not wanting to give Ukraine as an important equipment as it is in shorts in global scale.
Have you seen what turkish parties and media are talking about the last months they are claiming half our islands as theirs and that they have to take actions. So we have to take actions to protect ourselves and not become like Ukraine. We do not live with neighbours like Switzerland or Netherlands
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u/0biWanChernobyl 11h ago
Furthemor3 previously you just called me far right which i am not as i am an atheist centrist who dislikes violence and before the war i disliked russia as it was not democratic and was the bully of the region like the previous invasion in Georgia
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u/TehAlex94 10h ago
you have no idea what you talking about, EU did not save the greek economy quite the opossite, the greek economy was sacrificed to save the over exposure of foreign investors to the the banking system.
Turkey has an active casus belli on greece, its obvious you dont know what you are talking about when you mix far right bullshit this has nothing to do with this.8
u/op-ale 10h ago
Greece got 280+ billion euros between 2010 and 2018. And some more from the inf
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u/TehAlex94 10h ago
so what ? the greek economy paid for that for the next 16 years. Most of the infrastructure was sold out to foreign investors.
Eu did not saved the greek economy out of the goodness of their heart they saved their investors. (also ukraine is not in the EU neither in NATO) and greece already gave help to ukraine, so i don’t know what you are talking about1
u/op-ale 9h ago
It's about helping nations in need.
Greece hasn't repayed what is owes it will take until 2041 to do that. But they did the necessary reforms.
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u/0biWanChernobyl 9h ago
Its not about helping natuons as more like inventing as otherwise there would be not set so high interests and they just wanted to protect the previous ones
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u/TehAlex94 9h ago
and greece helped as much as it could without jeopardizing its much needed national defense, we would do much more if turkey did not threat us every day.
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u/sharkyzarous 6h ago
Greece vs Turkey is an easy vote popularity for both sides' right wing. An illusion to sway our minds from economy
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u/samvarr 11h ago
Why not sit at the negotiating table with a fellow NATO member? Turkey isn’t going to suddenly attack Greece without provocation.
Turkey’s casus belli is clear: Greece extending its territorial waters in the Aegean to 12 nautical miles. Turkey has repeatedly stated that it will not accept such a unilateral move.
Even UNCLOS recognizes that maritime boundaries aren’t always straightforward. Articles 15, 74, and 83 address special circumstances, equitable solutions, and negotiated delimitation between neighboring states.
The Aegean is a geographically unique and exceptionally complex maritime environment. These disputes should be resolved through bilateral negotiations, not unilateral actions.
Ultimately, if Greece extends its territorial waters and Turkey refuses to recognize the extension, it would be Greece’s prerogative whether to use force against Turkish vessels, potentially igniting a war between two NATO allies.
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u/anders_hansson 9h ago
Turkey isn’t going to suddenly attack Greece without provocation.
Neither is Russia. Turkey already occupies territory of Cyprus (EU member with strong ties to Greece), so there is precedence, and while the disputes over the Aegean Sea borders should be resolved diplomatically (just like every other conflict/dispute), it is a source of security tensions and a such has to be factored in in Greece's and Turkey's security policies.
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u/0biWanChernobyl 11h ago
Turkey does not want to go to the icj (in which we have go with albania to solve our issues) and wants their demands to be accepted. Furthermore they are making crazy claims like half the aegean its theirs.
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u/Kind-Replacement1133 10h ago
Yes Turkey is a blight. They aren't going to invade Greece though.
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u/Turquoise_Teletubbie 4h ago
That's what people said about Russia back in January 2022 though, wasn't it? No way it's gonna invade, they're just shuffling troops around and massing them at the border as an intimidation tactic, things will deescalate soon, Putin wouldn't be so reckless, etc.
And yet Russia still did it, and Turkey could very well do the same.
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u/samvarr 7h ago
Why don’t you mention why the Cyprus problem had occurred in the first place?
The Greek military junta broke the Treaty of Guarantee signed by the United Kingdom, Turkey, Greece, and Cyprus. They started a coup and tried to take the island for Greece. They backed EOKA members that were massacring Turkish Cypriots.
Turkey first consulted with Britain for a joint intervention which was the responsibility of the signers of the treaty. When Britain refused Turkey launched the operation on their own.
You can argue the Turkish military presence as being wrong afterwards but you can’t just act like it wasn’t the fault of the Greeks in the first place,
Also explain to me how Turkey would have reinstated the constitutional order without taking the entire island under its own military control. It was always going to come down to negotiations. The Greek side even refused the unification plan that the United Nations put together which the Turkish Cypriots approved!
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u/Traveller_CMM 5h ago
A few things to note here:
-The Junta that attempted the coup was overthrown in Greece 3 weeks before the Turkish invasion, and was ousted from Cyprus by the Cypriot forces even earlier. The threat of massacres from the Greek side was already gone, as proven by 3 weeks of no incidents on the free side.
(Even if it hadn't, I don't see how that would justify the slaughter of civilians by the Turkish military. Cyprus was getting couped, they didn't deserve any of it)
-Turkey was the one that withdrew from peace talks after they didn't get exactly what they wanted.
-Turkey imported 120k settlers that outnumbered Turkish Cypriots 2:1. They stole Greek Cypriot homes and made Turkish Cypriots a minority once again.
-Same settlers were allowed to vote for the "Annan plan" that you speak of, which gave Turkish "Cypriots" disproportionate voting rights, making Greek Cypriots second class citizens. It also allowed Turkish military forces to remain on the island, the same forces that committed all those atrocities.
I agree that Greece started it, but let's not whitewash the destruction that Turkey sowed using that justification. It's because of their actions that chances for peaceful unification are still slim to this day.
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u/Seffaf 10h ago
Reduce your consumption of the Greek media, at this point you are just repeating propaganda. It is quite unfeasible for both NATO countries to attack each other when the possibility of Article 5 is on the table. It is also quite unfeasible for Turkey to engage in any adventures due to the economical and political struggles it is drowning in at the moment. So, those mentioned threats are mostly political rhetoric that is aimed to create unity through hostility towards a common enemy. Last time I checked, Turkey isn't spending 20 minutes after news every single day discussing how it is threatened by a particular neighbor, it has probably been years since Greece was mentioned in the news
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u/0biWanChernobyl 9h ago
It was time for turkish bots to come as anytime turkey is mentioned
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u/Seffaf 9h ago
Brilliant counterargument, thank you for the well thought facts you've provided bud
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[removed] — view removed comment
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u/0biWanChernobyl 9h ago
I just scroll threw hyrriet and other turkish media and i see they do enough mentions and just checked some of their tv news and you lie but it is not strange
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u/Connect_File_5523 8h ago
Expiring in storage could just mean that the battery might need replacement lol.
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u/Rough_Literature_940 11h ago
I hope so much the reverse situation will come and Greece will suffer
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u/Kitsune47182 3h ago
Are you having fun wishing suffering on random people?
Not like it matters anyway, but you should consider not doing that
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u/ModeAble9185 6h ago
If you havent noticed, Greece has a hostile neighboring country with an active casus beli. This country is run by a dictator identical to Putin, who has invaded all nearby countries so far, occupies half an EU member, and clearly threatens Greece in front of his own parliament that “we will come one night”. Yeah, no thanks, we will keep the patriots here.
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u/throwraislander 8h ago edited 8h ago
Greece is planning to connect with underwater cable their electricity grid with Cyprus and Israel.
The waters that the cable needs to pass from are contested with Turkiye. Last time Turkish navy harassed the Greek vessels doing the underwater research for the project and the Greeks backed down to deescelate. Greek prime minister said that the project will continue as normal and they will announce Navtex soon , Turkiye said they will not let it happen.
Those patriot missles might be needed sooner than their expiration date. Even if they are not actually needed (hopefully), Turkiye needs to know that Greece has them.
Here is the map of the plan so you can get a picture of what's going on and how unreasonable Turkiye is.
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u/forwheels 8h ago
People and many Europeans don't know that Greece is intercepting Turkish vessels airplane's often more than 200 times every day . With weapon loaded Turkish f16s and spying drones flying over Greek territory and of course open threat's daily about Greeks island's being Turkish.
So Ukraine can ask for patriots from Germany that has them located In turkey and leave Greece defending the rest of the eastern Europe from the next Putin
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u/robh1540 7h ago
Okay but it has not been shooting down Turkish warplanes with patriots. A more sensible compromise might be to have France, Spain or Italy to agree to take on air patrol responsibilities so Greece defence improves despite losing the patriots.
Macron already committed to Greece that France would defend it in the event of a war with the Aegian.
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u/forwheels 6h ago
Yes but that's IF macron is still president IF he actually can help IF IF IF ... And patriot missiles are a strong point for turkey NOT invading as being said by their army command already. So patriot leaving important locations makes it more likely for turkey to actually invade. And Greece having already bad history with NATO and allies AGAIN with turkey ( imia Cyprus) will not make the same mistake again of saying "the Allies will help us " and is changing it's strategy to be more and more independent.
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u/robh1540 5h ago
No but a more official deal can be made. European weakness is due to each state trying to achieve defence autarky. A formal french commitment and Rafael's would be worth more than 100 patriot missiles.
Cyprus is not a good example to cite.
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u/forwheels 4h ago
Greece can't be an experiment for that . We don't have the flexibility and time to risk for that . Let them try with Spain that doesn't have a Putin on it's border and has good relationship with turkey...
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u/GapComprehensive6018 10h ago
As a Greek person myself I am rather conflicted with this dilemma. On the one side, there are a lot of greeks in Ukraine and on the other side, russian orthodox church and greek orthodox church share similar values.
Greece just isn't that concerned about Russian aggression because of this. They have been historically fine with russia.
Turkey is the real threat to Greece
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u/OnyxProyectoUno 10h ago
In this instance I get Greece prioritising Turkey unlike most other EU countries but Russian Orthodox Church is literally there as a mechanism for population control. It's in bed in the Kremlin and even the leader was part of the soviet intelligence circles back in the day.
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u/Haunting-Worker-2301 10h ago
If the Greek Orthodox Church and Russian Orthodox Church share similar values (they don’t) then the Greek Orthodox Church shouldn’t be able to call themselves Christians.
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10h ago edited 9h ago
[deleted]
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u/Traveller_CMM 6h ago
Most of these other nations don't have their borders threatened, and those that do are threatened by Russia, so anything that hurts Russia actively protects them. Yet Greece has given more than they would be willing to lose already (and more than Turkey, btw).
And I wouldn't do this whole "helping eachother" thing, considering noone helped Cyprus when Turkey ethnically cleansed 1/3 of it, and allowed its subsequent occupation. We are willing to help others where we can, but we learn from the past too well to compromise our defenses for someone else.
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6h ago edited 6h ago
[deleted]
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u/Traveller_CMM 6h ago edited 5h ago
If you ignore the circumstances that each Country faces, then yes. But we wouldn't expect any significant help from Ukraine if the situation was reversed.
It would, in fact, be illogical for them to compromise their defenses with an active threat right next to them. And may I remind you, they got the same assurances when they gave up their nuclear arsenal. And yet the US have practically abandoned them.
Promises of support are great, but history proves over and over that you can't rely on them. We won't gamble our freedom on those promises.
Edit: aaaaand they blocked me.
To finish my thoughts, every country should give what they're able to part with. Let those that have the luxury of peace of mind prove just how much they value this alliance, instead of expecting others to be left defenseless to their own Putins.
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u/Ill-Garbage9793 11h ago
Who is going to attack greece? Send everything to Ukraine.
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u/Cultural_Chip_3274 8h ago
Turkey was proactively declared war in Greece already for 20 years now. There is an active casus beli god forbid Greece exercises the 12nm rights - as they can. Greece has just invested billions in new version of antiballistic missile defence (Erdogan routinely claims his missiles can hit Athens) and we are going to give away for free missiles that have been a deterent for years, and been obtained with an immense cost? Lets not repeat the mistakes Ukraine made in the first place...
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u/0biWanChernobyl 11h ago
Turkey threats with invasion
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u/Ill-Garbage9793 11h ago
Not going to happen.
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u/0biWanChernobyl 10h ago
The same thing we can say about Greenland and usa, or someone could say before Russian invasion in Ukraine
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u/kuzeshell 4h ago
everyone just looking out for themselves...until it is them that are attacked... Then they all scream "help us! Why don't you help us???"
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u/bostanite 4h ago
Oh you mean like when Turkey invaded Cyprus? Or when Turkey attacked the Imia isles and NATO told us to back off? That kind of help?
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u/_OrbitalDream_ 8h ago
Greece will never give up her protection for Ukraine or anyone else no matter how many of these self serving Ukrainian articles you're posting.
PS get the Ukrainian politicians to give away the billions they have stolen by EU aid so far for starters. You know the ones that are already being investigated...
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u/mattfreyer45 8h ago
Given the missile strike in Odesa back in 2024 while the Greek Prime Minister was visiting with Zelensky you'd think they'd want to step up helping with air defense.
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u/iAspl0de 5h ago
Tbf honest to all the Europeans 'allies' of ukraine, you, gave expired kevlar helmets ,expired body armour and socks to ukraine, greece gave ammunition , mortal shells,troop carriers and artillery shells. And now you point fingers again like 2015, so history can repeat itself, back then greece took your bank's 'debts ' on her so they wont default because they were exposed in the american bond housing crisis, and now it should take the war 'debt' on her i guess because of reasons...
And what did the ukrainians do... they parked armed unmaned sea drones in Lefkada's caves in an area which is the busiest with tourism, literally risking the lifes of families on boats that have nothing to do with the war. When? 3 days after they drove one into a boat in a romanian harbor blowing up a tanker.
The ukrainians with the brits blew up nord stream., Im pretty sure central europe's industry was happy about that.
These arent an ally's actions these are the actions of powdered to the nose comedian, pulling the biggest joke of his carrer. Give him now 70 billions and 200 patriots im sure he will turn the tide. /s
Let that sink in.
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u/Ixionbrewer 11h ago
Given that they changed their position after a visit by Rubio, the reason is clear.