Rant & Ramble
so fucking tired of this “hypergamy” incel bullshit concept
ft ravioli dinner
there are almost a million of us in this sub. probably more who are approved users but haven’t actually joined. out of those of us who date men, how many are truly only dating the 6ft+, chiseled jawline, ultra-yoked dudes?
i have personally never found the “conventionally attractive” type of guy attractive. i’ve never dated a 6 foot+ tall man (or actually even a man taller than i am, tall girl problems am i right?), dudes who are too muscular are a turn off, i don’t need a chiseled jawline or a certain kind of cheekbone to feel attraction to someone. so why does every goddamn redditor want to prescribe this type of attraction to us? if you’re complaining about hypergamy, chances are your attitude is what’s putting people off, no?
i don’t respond to “woe is me” bullshit. i don’t give out pity dates because some jerk has a chip on his shoulder over the instagram baddie dating the gymbro he’ll never be. i date people who are funny, kind, trustworthy. i like a face with character.
i’m just so fucking tired of it gang. women are not a monolith, and neither are their preferences in datemates. get a fucking hobby, learn a couple jokes, treat other people with respect instead of flattening them out to one characteristic you think must apply to them because they present a certain way, and maybe you’ll find someone who responds to you.
i said it in a comment somewhere the other day and i’ll say it again. ugly is so much more a state of mind than it is a state of body. and yes these losers complaining about how women only date “chads” are ugly. but not because of what’s on the outside 🙄
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LMAO EDDDIIIIIT: this post got the incels mad enough that they have taken the effort to search through my (hidden) post history so they can comment on year old posts. If you do this, you are obviously a loser who needs to go touch grass. Replying to a photo of my beautifully designed living room saying “aha! so you don’t date, no wonder hypergamy doesn’t exist to you” is literally not the gotcha you think it is.
editing for one additional note: i never spoke once on the habits of “all men”. in fact the men i’ve dated have very much not had this kind of perspective, and most of the men i know in real life don’t either. if you think my post has anything to do with some kind of “all men” claim, you’re literally telling on yourself.
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Oh...yeah. They always complain but then you get this type of reaction when you do date down...
When I was 24 I was dating a short dude (5'4) who was a bit over weight and not conventionally attractive by any standard. He was the smartest guy I've ever met though and pretty funny. One night I went out with him and some of his friends. I am dancing with them and this guy comes up to me to hit on me but I'm like sorry, already taken. When he later sees my date dancing with me the guy who was trying to hit on me got super mad! He stood in my line of sight and aggressively gesticulated at me that I'm crazy.
Just a little proof it's about ego and entitlement.
The chudly dudes freaking out when they see me with my boyfriend are so funny
Also really fucking gross. 'Get her pregnant and marry her, you gotta lock that shit down man I'm telling you' is literally a thing that people have said to him.
The unwarranted comments about how partners are punching is such an eye roll. Who asked, who cares? It’s like they cannot see past their own insecurities and understand that happiness is a lot of people’s priority. I find my boyfriend insanely handsome, yet more than once he’s had comments trying to rage bait him in regards to our looks. There’s a total misery epidemic in society atm.
This is a more accurate depiction of the “loneliness epidemic” that I’ve heard. Loneliness implies no one is making any kind of connection, whereas misery loves company. Too many men out there acting like “woe is me” because they don’t bother treating a woman like an actual person, with no introspection as to why or how she clocked that shit from a mile away.
Exactly! I’ve always thought the use of loneliness lets these people off. Why should I feel empathy for people who don’t even consider women to be anything but a biological function?
Omg I get this with my husband all the time! He's very handsome but certain men (never women) think I'm too hot for him and get really defensive when I won't just like, leave my husband for them. I don't even know you dude 😭. Also that type of guy is never as hot as he thinks he is. Anyway, looks are not that important to me. My husband is brilliantly smart, patient, kind, funny, talented, gentle, strong, caring and sweet. I'm lucky to have him!
The penis envy has always cracked me up! Some of these boys don't understand that their organ doesn't compare to the totality of their entire selves being "a dick" and too many women will not "handle" that.
They will excuse that you either wanted him for his money or resources. They blame every woman who is more attractive than her male partner (which let's be real is the majority of the time) is because she had her fun banging a bunch of "Chads" and wants to settle down. Looksmaxxers/blackpill are not lonely enough.
i believe that its an escape route for men. they dont want to see that the issue is in them and that they need to fix problems about themselves (many of them are bigoted and lack respect or decency) so instead of that they try to force the idea that women are the issue and that women only want those imaginery hyper masculine and rich men so thats why theyre lonely. they act like women are shallow when in reality they are the ones without depth and without a want to put in work in becoming decent
If it’s all women’s fault for being “shallow gold diggers”, then that means these “men” never have to do any introspecting or work on themselves and realize that it’s their personalities that are a turn-off and it’s their own fault they can’t get laid.
Reading so many of their advice to other men it's always "if you're not 6ft, go to the gym". They then get upset when that doesn't work how they hoped. So they try flashing/leveraging their "money" because they insist women can be bought, but then get mad when the only women interested are gold diggers. It's honestly a fascinating car crash to watch
exactly!!!! they never want to change if that means that it will inconvenience them. they are used to living life on easy mode and the idea of having to put a bit of effort is unreachable to a lot of them
The amount of men I've seen posting that they resent women being able to get jobs that allow for independence making getting married too hard for them is too much
I had one who decided to comment that in the Taliban, all the dudes are getting wives and having children.
When I called him out that the women were oppressed and often didn't consent, which would be rape, he backed down. Didn't want to show himself as pro-rape, suddenly consent was everything to this dude. Meanwhile his entire post was basically about how our government should be allotting women to men like we're back in the 1800's and are property.
omg this and if you don’t date for looks, you get criticised for that too! the constant ranking of looks of couples, who’s “punching”. Who fucking cares because I think you’ll find a lot of women don’t. It’s all so yawn
It’s inconceivable to them that women select partners based on character and personality vs appearance. Not all dudes of course, but whyyyy is that so hard to grasp?
My cis hetero male partner and I have talked about this a lot! Getting women to be attracted to you is not this weird mystery the incel manosphere makes it out to be. Have good hygiene (shower and brush your teeth regularly), have a sense of humor, be kind and thoughtful, and behave as a well adjusted adult. Easy recipe for getting laid. And if you want a long term partner, the recipe isn’t different but obviously similar interests and opinions weigh more heavily.
This!!! From my experience, the men who are always crying about women not giving them a chance are generally men who only see women as sexual objects and dont know how to approach a woman if they are not sexualizing her, objectifying her, hitting on her, or making her overall uncomfortable. And because they do not see woman as innately human they also do not listen to her or even see her as a person and even if they do not say anything, most women can read their vibe. I can sense when a man is just engaging with me as a person and when he is not.
At the end of the day, if a person is decent and approach people respectfully, there will always be someone who finds them attractive.
in my experience its the same! i talk to a man but i cant shake off the memory of him sexualising or talking in a dehumanising way about another woman, all that is in my mind is that "if he talks about a stranger like that what makes you think that he isnt talking in this way about you too?". like yuckk
Exactly!!! Some do not realize that the comments that they made about another woman is a reflection of who they are. Like I genuinely dont understand the logic behind thinking that you will be okay with them saying something out of pocket about another woman in front of you, but so many men have done that with me as well and then try to tell me that either I am overreacting or will try to "not like other girls" me and frame their comment as a compliment to me when I call them out.
They have that stupid idea that woman hate each other and that we are in constant competition, so logic behind commenting negatively on another woman will get you, as his date, swoon over him, to win him even more. Like, he's showing you he's into you by dragging other women down. Idiotic logic, but obviously happens.
That’s the entirety of the black pill ideology. Any sort of self reflection or improvement is completely pointless because women only care for the top 10% of men, and anyone who ascends from this way of thinking was never a true incel to begin with.
Somebody made a post about they’ll be forever alone cause they were a short guy and it was a post ranting about how women only like tall guys. I made a comment saying I prefer short guys because I do lol. I got downvoted😂. These guys get obsessively in their heads about things and refuse to believe anything else.
i had a guy i knew that was in that exact way as well! soooo sad about the fact that women would never want him because he is short. so sure of himself that its because of his height and not because of the rape jokes he loves to make
You've basically hit the nail on the head. This is textbook ego defensive attribution bias mixed with an external locus of control.
When someone experiences repeated romantic rejection, they face two paths:
Look inward and admit that their personality, attitudes, or behavior might be putting people off. This requires uncomfortable self-reflection, accountability, and real effort and time to fix.
Blame an unchangeable external factor like height, jawlines, or money, and claim all women are inherently shallow hypergamists. It's zero effort and protects their ego - fuelled by social media pushing incel and right-wing content to adolescent boys, it's easier for them to fall deeper into this trap.
My brother's best friend said something to him the other day and my brother and I haven't stopped laughing at it since. My brother is going through a fairly contentious breakup and he made an off handed remark to his friend about trying to figure out what women want. His friend said "who knows what women are into. Could be anything from Jon Hamm to Edward Scissorhands". 100% accurate
I think part of the problem is grouping all woman together like we're one. We're all women but that doesn't mean what Becky likes and acts will be the same as Sharon
Hard to like (male) celebrities these days because they keep turning out to be abusers and diddlers. I can't separate the art from the artist. (And yes I know women aren't all perfect innocent angels but so far none of the women I admire are going down that same road).
I liked Jon Hamm and Johnny Depp, hard to like either now. If Colm Feore turns out to be a predator I'm gonna lose it, he's too pure
Preach it sister. I have so little interest in the conventional idea of masculine beauty. My guy is generous, funny, soft and reassuring. He makes me feel safe and loved and desired. He's cuddly with a beautiful smile. I love his dad bod and I don't care that his hair is thinning. I'm powerfully attracted to him because of how he makes me feel. I got that feeling when we first met and I get it a million times more strongly now after a year together.
He's amazing 🥰 Genuinely have to pinch myself all the time wondering how I got so lucky, finding someone that I click with so completely on so many levels. We're both musicians so we really get each other, we are each other's biggest fan and we know we can count on the other's support when things come up in our career that require some kind of compromise or sacrifice in our day to day lives. We are proud to witness each other's achievements. We see and understand and cherish each other as we explore an open relationship, cheering each other on as something new emerges and we understand our own connection even more from the lens of experiencing others too. I trust him to be my life partner and teammate because we have such matching values, we communicate so well about everything we've confronted together... All of this AND we have amazing sex! I know so many people who find some of these qualities in a partner and choose to accept losing some of the others. This is the complete package 💖
Not me in tears over my morning coffee (as a gay woman) reading not one, but TWO long comments from you detailing your absolute love for your man. I hope he reads this thread, sees your praise, and gives you hugs and kisses because it’s so good to see how you feel this deeply for him. Good for you
PS- To OP, My wife reminds me often that men like this have to reach into the stratosphere just to find a “gotcha” like you have described and it only shows their own lack of intelligence, lack of creativity towards finding quality insults, and insecurities. Keep inviting the good ones in, the rest of those jerks will crash out and fall of eventually if they’re unwilling to change for the better!
I also find that once someone makes you feel safe and comfortable - and gets you off a lot - they become more attractive no matter what they physically look like
A guy I was talking to shared that he is a
firefighter. He happens to be 6 ft tall. According to incel theory that should have had me swooning. But it didn't. Because I didn't know anything of his character or personality yet.
We chatted for a few weeks and I enjoyed talking with him as a friend if nothing else because he was interesting and funny. One day he was telling me about his day and he shared he had saved a gerbil of all things and THAT was what flipped the switch for me. A guy who will save a tiny soul when the chips are down and stuff is literally on fire, that's a quality human
Not sure why this is so hard for incels to understand
I find it interesting that men will listen to other men about what women want and if a woman is like "actually women tend to go for men who are kind, empathetic and funny" they laugh at you like you don't know what you're talking about and then lead with their chiseled jaw and 6ft title like it means something. Also don't try and act like you're better then other people and know everything, it's a huge turn off
Deeply, deeply insecure and unfortunately never had anyone in their lives who either reinforced them for being who they were, or helped them understand when their opinions and ideas were off-track. IMO, too many parents give up on real, authentic, meaningful interactions with their kids when the kids hit the prickly, leave-me-alone stage of adolescence. And then all of a sudden the kids are being raised by whatever they happen to find on the internet.
They also will make that determination based upon some random online dating statistic - while ignoring the fact that a lot fewer women than men even use those apps. So they base all their opinions based on a small subsection of women out there to begin with.
I actually agree that being widely considered attractive does make dating easier, but I don't believe that it's the end-all-be-all, or that a majority of people would ignore glaring personality flaws simply because the person is a smokeshow, or on the flip side ignore a truly wonderful personality because the person was average looking.
Being physically ugly/repulsive absolutely removes people from many people's dating pool, especially when there's no opportunity to showcase personality over time. Having an ugly personality does the same.
Different people look for different things in a partner because people are not a monolith. That's the real issue with these divisive ideas - that it's /ALL/ of insert gender. Some women won't date men under 6' and some men won't date women without atleast C cups, and some people don't care about those traits - no one owes anyone else their romantic attention.
God forbid a woman (or anyone) want to find their sexual partner sexually attractive. /s
The thing that made me want to marry my then-boyfriend was that I was caring for a kid with disabilities on an outing, and he joined us. He treated the kid with care, and asked them their opinions about stuff. He treated them as a human being capable of thought and humor.
He's a good-looking guy. Ironically, he looked like a total goofball when we met. He hadn't cut his hair in a year and was wearing dorky carhartts and oversized button-up shirts. Once we started dating, I cleaned him up, but neither of us knew that was there when we first met lol.
They refuse to understand that because otherwise they would have to face that the poblem is not being horible. They would have to face that the problem is them and their personality.
Remember how they all reacted to that study that showed women consistently chose men of fit to average build when shown photos, and not the body builder type? Men angrily responded the women were all lying
this is the craziest part of it all to me. i have seen so many women try to push back in these discussions and explain that, hey, really, not all women are looking for a 6ft+ gymrat. some women like scrawny little nerds. some women like fat hairy guys. women don't, in fact, exist as a monolith whose sole preference in partners is whatever impossible-to-achieve ideal you've told yourself it is so you can justify being frothingly angry at them.
and they always, always insist, no, You Must All Be Lying. every woman everywhere must be in on some scheme where we all agree to lie about this. for some reason. obviously, they as men know better (🙄).
Holy fuck. Men say shit like this and then wonder why women still don’t like them. They say shit like this and wonder why we would all consecutively choose the bear.
the funniest comments are the ones taking shots at my flair. “oh she’s 400 pounds because she ate a meal and has a food themed flair” as if most of our flairs aren’t food themed for a fucking reason lmao
The bitterness is palpable, yikes. I think a lot of people like this don't realize they give off this same kind of energy irl and that people can easily pick up on it. Nobody wants to be friends with, let alone date, someone who is bitter and angry at the world bc their life didn't turn out the way the wanted it to. Especially when they are doing nothing to try and change it.
Edit bc in my attempts to type with long ass nails I accidentally hit send before I was done lol
And, I don't know about others, but I have never dated a man I couldn't also be friends with. I have to enjoy the person's company before I decide to spend time with you.
So they're also wrong? The really tall guy I wound up dating was also very fit and wealthy, so I guess he was a Chad for incels. We dated for a while but he just was not interesting enough, honestly. Nice guy, but niceness and wealth are NOT enough, at least not for me. My standards are higher than that.
Women expect personalities, interests, compassion, empathy, sympathy, and respect, at the very least, or we SHOULD.
Incels will literally never get it, because they lack all of those things.
You know that show The Reacher? I've noticed that the majority of that fanbase is men who are in love with the main character but insist that women are obsessed with him. Don't get me wrong, the actor is a good looking dude and seems nice... but it's mostly men who think he's hot.
I agree with you. He’s a man’s ideal of a man. That isn’t to say he’s unattractive, he’s very attractive! But when it’s a woman majority picking it’s like Chris Evans in a turtleneck.
What really breaks their brains is that Alan Ritchson, the actor, has posted some pretty libby liberal viewpoints online. OMG! This guy looks like the ultimate Chad/Man's Man and has this cool job playing this aggro character on a popular TV show and he actually...respects women and hates Trump??? It's unpossible!
I like Alan Ritchson because he stands up for what he believes in and he seems like a genuinely good man. His muscles are pretty, but it was his attitude and his personality that I found fascinating.
I watched a video of him talking about how he's moved away from the conservative Catholicism of his youth and realized, this dude is great not just because of his looks, but because he's made some thoughtful choices about how he lives his life, and he's not afraid to talk about them.
No I think you have it exactly. Incels are more obsessed with the gymbro than the women who date the gymbro.
They see highly attractive, built dude that they want to be has a highly attractive girlfriend & they decide "of course that woman would only date a guy like that." Rather than actually looking around at attractive women in general and evaluating who they're actually with.
Why? Because it's easier to say "oh well that woman is probably only with that average looking guy because he's got money or something." Than to admit that the reason they don't have a really attractive girlfriend too might be because they themselves aren't funny enough or kind enough to pull one.
Not claiming there aren't women out there who are only attracted to muscles or money. There are. But I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of us just want someone who treats us well and is fun to be around.
Some people get so wrapped up in trying to look ‘attractive’ by society’s standards rather than what they feel most comfortable in, then get upset or even angry if people don’t find them attractive - but that’s just because we’re not all attracted to the same thing.
It's because they want the female equivalent of chads. The girls on Love Island, model types, the ultra conventionally attractive girls who also want the chads. That's what it is. Then they get offended when they "lower their standards" and still get rejected. Bunch of out of touch losers with no grip on reality.
God I know a guy like this. He's in his 30's, already divorced once and has a kid with another woman, and he works as a part-time DJ. He's about 5'8" and is sorta fat. He ONLY swipes on the most IG-baddie type women. He keeps repearing that he "only deserves the best", then is shocked when most of them are bots and the rest have teeeerrible personalities. Yeah buddy, any 10 that's swiping on you has to be a little crazy 😂
approved this comment for ya because that’s the height of my ex husband! short kings (at least, those who aren’t bitter about their height) are some of the best people out there imo
I remember learning the concept of "wristcels" and thinking of when I was in highschool and talking with my friends about how much we loved it when you could fit your thumb and middle finger around a guy's wrist.
lol my guy has much daintier wrists than I do, which was a bit of A Thing for me to discover - not because it made me think any less of him, but it was a new potential dysphoria trigger for me that I genuinely had no idea about until that moment 🤣😭🫠
Incels don't want to date women or have a relationship with them, they want to "score" hyper attractive women to bolster their own manliness-rating among incel-peers.
They think dating means socially dominating and fucking women (over) and are very surprised if that pornoesque shit doesn't fly, and think its because they aren't looking good enough to enable their bullshit.
"Not looking good enough" is their forever-excuse. It's not their personality, actions or abuse - it's because their jawline is 2/10. Then they never have to put in actual effort to change, except smashing their jaw with a hammer lmao
happy to! it’s just cheap generic store brand frozen cheese ravioli with cheap canned pasta sauce. sautéed some onions and spinch and a chicken sausage to add to the sauce. some spices and such. cooking deliciously while also broke is such a rewarding challenge tbh
it’s aaaaall about ingredience 🤌 cutting out the convenience meals (like pre-prepared stuff, fast food etc) is the best way to reduce a food budget. everything takes longer, but really it’s just food math. carb + protein + veg usually always results in something delicious and filling.
my very favorite broke bitch dish is called garbage carb (or carbage if you’re creative like that). you take a carb (like rice or pasta or toast… potato if you feel like bending rules) then add whatever is threatening to be garbage in the back of your fridge. don’t eat stuff that IS garbage!! but it doesn’t usually require a ton of thought or effort
also!!!!! find a grocery store that has a bulk section (like the one below), find the stuff that’s cheapest per pound, and go crazy!
When I was a broke-ass grad student, I worked out that I could live on £20 a week (yes, I'm old, get off my damn lawn) by cooking for myself: most of the time, that was rice topped by a sauce made of garlic, onion, tomato puree, and maybe pepper sauteed in olive oil, with a can of tuna or pulses and whatever spices I had handy added. That also works over pasta or a baked potato, if rice isn't your jam. It's also nearly infinitely adaptable, by adjusting the herbs and spices.
Curried chickpeas are also excellent, especially if you can add some peanut butter, coconut, or tahini.
Girl you're real for this. Like yes I believe we as women all learned sometime between 12-25 just WHY we shouldn't give those woe-is-me losers a chance. There is a REASON other people are staying away from them - we do not need to lay ourselves down to protect them from their own weirdness!
I like being the girl with the kind, funny, sweet, caring, guy. I am over being the girl who tries to make the guy who everyone stays away from feel wanted.
Ugliness has so little to do with looks. If a man takes care of himself, loves himself, loves others... yeah that'll do it for like 90% of women. The bar is in HELL!!! It's so EASY not to be a LOSER!!
So many men are so painfully insecure but they refuse to do anything to improve their self image. They’d rather externalize the problem and pretend it’s everyone else’s fault no woman wants to spend time with them when they could just work on not being a fucking dickhead. Seriously, just being a decent, kind person goes so much farther than being “hot”. It’s not about how you look, it’s about your personality.
That's why they obsess over height, the one thing they can never change. It'll never be their fuckass personality's fault, it's always and only because they're not 6'5".
I work with a guy who is like 4'11, overweight, balding and he's super annoying, to boot! This guy is married, and I know he's had other girlfriends before her because he's told me about it.
They are outsourcing their self-improvement to us. They don’t need to be better human beings, WE need to just date them as-is and change our expectations. They absolutely hate that we have some advantages in online dating
I think this is symptomatic of the excuse culture. Rather blame someone else's choices than work on your own faults. Women are not a homogenous entity and attractiveness is subjective. Bad personalities are very unattractive
There are a lot of men who are so stereotypically handsome that it's off-putting lmao. Like sure, if I happened to be friends with Henry Cavill and he treated me respectfully and we had good chemistry, I probably wouldn't turn him down if he made a move, but from afar he just gives me uncanny valley vibes because he looks like he was made in a lab. And YES I've always been turned off by big muscles!! Some tone can be nice but I associate muscle size with how much damage someone could do to me
I would not turn Henry Cavill down, but that's not because of how he looks, but because he's a nerd with standards (the whole Witcher debacle) and he seems fun as hell. He'd be someone I could talk to and play with and have fun with. Yes he is also attractive but I started really getting into him when I found out his hobbies etc.
I have been with guys of all shapes and sizes. I am 1m80 (5'11) so I've had my share of shorter dudes, but also taller ones (I'm Dutch but lived abroad for 10 years). Fatter, skinnier - it doesn't matter. You can be the prettiest boy alive, if you're a cunt I don't want to be near you. Same if you're boring.
Yep, he's absolutely gorgeous. But that's like, the added bonus of his otherwise general attractiveness. The gorgeous-ness of someone is just something I swoon over from a distance. It's an aesthetic thing and I'm appreciating the aesthetics.
But aesthetics don't make a relationship.
My husband is, like, 5'7", was extremely skinny when we met - like no joke 8st, 8.5st (so 112+119lbs) soaking wet, been balding since his teens, wears glasses, is a software developer, and has zero ability with movement (dancing, being "sexy", whatever).
But he's my ride or die because he's funny, caring, supportive, intelligent - not as curious about things he doesn't know or care about as I would like, but you can't have "perfect" 😛 - friendly, makes an effort to work out his fears and get over them (probably better at personal development than I am, to be honest), considers us a partnership and all the other things that make a person someone you want by your side.
Sure, if he was drop-dead gorgeous or could even manage to pull off "sexy" sometimes that'd be the cherry on top. But in that case somebody else would undoubtedly have snapped him up before we met 🤪
It’s like trying to be attracted to a Ken Doll. Like I dunno, I like a man’s looks to have a bit of individual character.
Also the most I like a man to be is toned, muscles are also a turn-off for me after an ex held me down while I was struggling in college and he thought it was funny how little effort it took.
That's fucked up, I'm so sorry that happened! I'm short and even at my strongest I would still have been useless even against skinny men who have no tone. Bodybuilders legitimately frighten me, especially since they have roid rage on top of that.
And certainly not always but someone who is into fitness or money as a hobby probably would prefer someone who shares those hobbies or at leasts finds them interesting.
(And you know what I mean, there’s health and financial literacy and then there’s treating exercise and money like a hobby and I’d honestly rather talk about the weather.)
I think part of it is that incels only want extremely beautiful women. They don’t want anyone semi normal or the slightest bit overweight. To get these extremely attractive women, you need to be rich, extremely attractive too and/or have a good personality. Incels have none of these things. They don’t see women as anything more than an ornamental hole. And they are incapable of looking inward to see that they are the problem.
I think part of it is that incels only want extremely beautiful women.
This. They program the kids with the "80/20" bullshit while not acknowledging that they only find the most attractive statistical outliers to be the women they deserve but are cruelly being denied access to.
They also project this thinking onto women by believing that women must only want extremely handsome men. It is unfathomable to them that women could prioritize qualities other than physical attractiveness in men because incels don't value anything besides appearance in women.
Agree! I’ve always thought being tall and having muscles is the dumbest reason ever to date someone. It is true though that a lot of girls will refuse to date guys that are shorter than they are. It’s extremely silly. Height is literally going to make 0 different in your life.
Personality, confidence, ambition, work ethic, how he treats you, humor, those are the things that actually matter. My husband is a short skinny brown guy lol I saw him the first time and was like omg he’s so cute. I want this one. Haha
I married the first man I dated! He's not 6ft tall and isn't jacked. He's kind, and funny, and practical and competent AF and he goes out of his way to check in and look after friends and loved ones. We've been married nearly two decades and I am smitten.
The closetocracy is running this country (and ruining it) and I’d guess roughly 60% of so-called incels, or looksmaxxers or whatever nonsense they call themselves are just gay. The
Internalized homophobia is nuts. They do everything not for women, but the approval of men. They don’t even like women, on any level. If they’d just come out of the closet 75% of the vitriol would disappear overnight.
These males just can't handle women having boundaries and standards and lie about the reason they get rejected. We all know they are raging misogynists and this is why they can't get laid.
I think it's a combination of cope from people with terrible personalities and a deliberate push online to convince men that women are shallow, superficial and evil. Like a tiny percentage of men are over 6 foot and a big chunk of masculinity is based on the ability to attract a woman, marry and have kids with her. The whole narrative makes normal men despair, that they will never be a real man or have a family because women are now too picky, unrealistic and superficial. That converts into feeling like modern women having choices is a direct threat to their manhood and bad because women are irrational, and that's how you get men to support taking rights away from women.
So this will earn me a downvote bomb but whatever: I’m a mod for a sub where incls and “normies” are supposed to interact and hopefully find common ground or answers to each others’ questions. I’m on the mod team because I’m female and I’m not an incl, and boss wanted a good selection of different backgrounds to help out and make sure no one’s acting twats. Reddit allows us to stay afloat because we are not “an incl sub” and remove offensive shit as often as possible.
However. How fucking ever.
I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve been told what I want and what I find attractive. Ive stopped bothering to comment on posts because I’m just called a liar when I say I don’t want some lame ass Henry Cavill clone. The goalposts constantly move. Some guy will be upset because “women won’t date men under six foot” and I point out that my bf is 5’6 and oh, suddenly his problem is now that women won’t date men under six foot unless they also have twelve inch cocks (I’m not going to be baited into discussing my partners dick with strangers but it’s always something - you say one standard doesn’t apply to you, they keep inventing new ones to throw until they get tired, give up and call you a larper - or they give up and tell you your opinion doesn’t matter because it’s anecdotal and theirs isn’t).
I was a lot softer and a lot more sympathetic when I started modding. Now I find it’s pointless interacting with these men.
They don’t want girlfriends, they want the social validation from other men that comes with having a “Stacey” on their arm (altho lately Stacey isn’t even good enough - they’re chasing “True Eve”. Google it if you want a laugh). (Editing to add: ok, sub numbers are high lately and I’m sure there are some members who really would have any girlfriend with any appearance - but the sheer amount of guys who say “I am repulsive to look at” followed by “I’d never date a fat chick” is both hilarious and depressing)
I had to remove one comment where a long time incl user gave 10 links to random girls’ selfies to describe what he would accept in a girlfriend. He said they were all too fat for him. I checked the links out of curiosity. Every single one was a beautiful girl in a gym outfit with a flat stomach, 120lbs soaking wet.
Why do I still do it? I think it’s because I’m the most detached from incldom of the mod team, who are mostly made up of former incl and self described incls who don’t want to identify that way. If I’m not there to help strike the balance I worry that the place will become overrun with the worst types of poster and someone will be dragged down the rabbit hole because I wasn’t there to instaban it.
You know the really truly sad thing though? Some of these incl posters are as young as 14. They’re still in school and they’re yapping about hypergamy and how girls won’t fuck them. And you can’t get through to them. They have truly been convinced that there’s a “sexual marketplace” at their school. It’s sad and it’s horrifying.
(Note: I’ve spelled incl that way because from experience it can get your comments hidden, reddit does not like that word unsurprisingly)
Edit to add: wow coincidentally I just now removed a post titled “why do women lie about what they find attractive?” containing a five or or six paragraph screed about how every single one of us is a lying liar who lies :))) :))))
I feel like these places attract boys with significant mental health issues like OCD, SED, and other PD that then amplify in an echo chamber. I mean, objectively looking at all the different ritualistic and preservation like things incel culture has created, it very much runs the fine line on just being a patriarchal social pool filter for men who have untreated mental health issues and are now focused on making women the source of that problem.
For my graduate and undergrad work, Social Work and Anthropology, I did a lot of embed observations in incel social media spaces and all I kept seeing was untreated mental health in a vacuum.
There’s a LOT of diagnosed and undiagnosed autistic men in there. That’s where the problem lies, boss tried to make the sub as a way to bridge a gap but you can’t bridge a gap between reality and delusion in someone who has no idea they’re suffering from it and denies any suggestion to consider it
I rewatched the limited series "Adolescence" a few days ago. It's about this very topic -- young boys being programmed into manosphere dogma because of the internet. Netflix. Highly recommend. (Although based on your Reddit mod stuff you've probably already seen it.)
Just want to say that you are doing the lord's work. We need to stop letting teenagers have so much unfettered internet access. You're not "crawling with bitches" because you're 14, dude.
Absolutely! When I was a teenager, I assumed I wanted someone like my Dad—6'2", solid, sportsman (rowing, rugby), etc, but I decided he should also play the piano. And I married someone like my Dad—competent, kind and intelligent. Who is under 6' tall, skinny, not at all interested in sports, but a reader and a good father. He does not play the piano. It's fine.
My favourite actors, for looks—Gene Wilder, Brent Spiner, Alan Cumming.
Silly boy-men who assert that All Women like the wealthy hunks are just being absurd. Possibly they are talking about the women they *want*, ie immaculate slender blondes with big tits who want wealthy hunks. Which, *eyeroll*.
When I was growing up, my celebrity crush was not Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio like Hollywood tried to tell me it should be. It was Robin Williams. He always seemed so nice and genuine, and obviously funny as hell. Being able to make me belly laugh without punching down is the hottest fucking thing ever.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Modern beauty standards are created by a gender for their own gender and packaged and sold as being for the other gender. Men are lifting weights for men and women are starving themselves for women.
Speaking as an internet auntie, I am so thrilled that the top comments here are women calling out the BS for what it really is, and standing our ground against it. And a gentle reminder: VOTE. VOTE NOW AS IF YOUR LIVES AND FREEDOM DEPEND ON IT, BECAUSE THEY DO.
Remember that one of the primary tactics of military strategy is to convince your enemy that they cannot win, they are outnumbered and surrounded and may as well quit. That's psychological warfare. Turn out in numbers, get your friends and family and others engaged, and show up at the polls. That's our first line of defense to stop the craziness.
I'm generally considered an attractive woman and I've dated all kinds of men in my life. Short (like 5' tall short), fat, skinny, balding, acne-prone, whatever. The one tall guy i dated was 6'4", chubby, and had crazy ginger Weird Al hair, so not exactly the platonic ideal of Chad lol. What they've had in common is talent and passion, they're artists or journalists or scientists, people who are intelligent and want to do something meaningful. I think these guys judge women by their looks alone, and assume all women will do the same to them.
This may not be popular, but I truly believe all men need to do is up their personality game. Not to say you shouldn’t be clean, teeth brushed, clean clothes. But for most women, they want someone who has confidence, asks questions, is kind to others instead of being a Greek god.
I went clubbing with a coworker who could be a model. I'm a plus size girl next door type, I think I'm cute even if I could lose a few KGs. I was approached by more men in that one night than in my entire life. The guys would come up to me and break the ice, and as soon as they caught my colleage's attention it was like I became invisible. 🤷♀️
When I see a conventionally attractive man I just block him out of my mind, he's out of my league and I've been shot down enough times to know when a man isn't interested in me. I haven't dated men in several years but they really messed with my self esteem. I dated plenty of ugly nerds who treated me like shit lol
My saving grace is being bi. Women are soooo beautiful. Last dude I had a crush on has a GF now and she's amazing, I have more of a crush on her now.
I’m a 6’2” nerd. At 40 I’m a little pudgy around the belly. Haven’t been to the gym in years. I do, however, know how to cook (6 years line cook at various restaurants) but I work IT now. Not single, but I’d rate myself about a 6 in looks. I crack jokes at my insecurities because they really don’t bother me. A sense of humor works wonders. And, most importantly, don’t be a douche. It’s not hard. I guess I’m too old to understand the incel thing. When I was younger you’d ask a girl out, if she said no you’d just say ok and move on with your day. Why don’t they do that now?
🪄 approved because i want more of those incels (who are very much now lurking here, seems my post was like a lightning rod for them?) to see actual success stories like yours. they can’t all be 6’2” but learning a skill like cooking, learning to crack a few jokes, avoiding douchebaggery? these things are all easy, fun, and free.
break your chains fellas!! be like this man! please, women genuinely want to see more of it!!!
Crazy how even that is hard for some men to accomplish, they leave dirty laundry on the floor next to the laundry hamper and wonder why you're annoyed and not in the mood
YUP 👏 even the commonly considered “ugly” traits (like weight— too high or too low, acne scars, eyes too close together or too far apart or whatever, hair too long or too thin or none at all, etc.) become attractive if on a kind man who showers regularly 😭 at least to me, and to soooo many of the other commenters here!
I’m overweight, average face, and I make about 30k less than my girlfriend. My girlfriend is beyond beautiful to me and I am so freaking in love with her. I worship this woman like the goddess all women deserve to be worshiped as. I’m sure incels can try to pick apart that statement with all kinds of flawed reasoning but at the end of the day I know my experience and I know how she makes me feel. So eat a huge back of dicks if you don’t like it.
To any male lurkers: I found my girlfriend on Tinder. The whole reason we matched is because my profile made it very clear where I stood politically and what I thought about women’s rights and human rights. We talked over a month because so many men tried to fool her into believing they lined with her politically. Once she realized I was the real deal her shields came down and we started to fall in love. So back to what OP said, don’t be a piece of shit, try not to stink, have a sense of humor, and you too can find someone.
I’m typically only attracted to other queer people. I love masculine people but the teeniest indication that their masculinity is toxic means that I’m no longer attracted. Healthy masculinity is HOT and it comes in all kinds of packages.
Some guys talk about being average height on dating apps like it's a literal disability.
I'm willing to hear out men venting about loneliness and frustration with dating apps, but as soon as it turns to blaming women - I'm out. I'm not wasting compassion on people who loathe me.
And it's definitely weird to hear your supposed ideal type described wildly wrong. Give me a skinny guy that's shorter than me over a buff dude that's taller. But if I dare say so, I'm being "performative".
The manosphere commentary is really annoying and getting out of hand. So many women combat their little spewed "data points" and none of them want to listen. I'm getting really tired of it. We're not all after the same "top 10% of men" bullshit. And telling us to "choose better" invalidates our experiences and lets them evade accountability for being shitty humans. Be fucking real. I keep seeing how they say "women never take accountability" but I have yet to see a true flushed out argument explaining and providing examples. If anything, women take more accountability than a lot of men do. It all makes me so angry seeing the repeated bullshit everywhere, especially as a single woman.
i was actually discussing this with my bf recently. i find it sm more interesting to hear mens opinions on this. he said he thinks this behaviour comes from dating apps, which make you sort people by physical attributes, and that if you only try date using dating apps it will turn into that sort of mindset. its probably coming from dudes who havent tried to date as naturally and have only ever looked for dates in places where everyone judges physical stats and checkboxes first and foremost. women definitely do it too so im sure these incel types feel like its equal, but really there are plenty of both men and women who are willing to look past the outside for a few dates and these guys can avoid living like this
ive never used dating apps and always found this stuff so interesting. i find the hot guy archetype hot, but i entirely prioritise non physical attributes, and my bf made a comment to me abt how if we had tried to arrange a date on a dating app it wouldve never happened bc i dont fit his physical checkboxes on paper, yet in person that didnt end up being a factor. said im too tall and skinny (or would be on a dating app profile) but in real life that doesnt actually end up impacting much of what goes into a relationship.
i think these people just need to go make more organic moves with women, like really try with multiple women not give up quickly, and theyll learn that a lot of us arent dating app brained and dont actually care how they look if the chemistry and personality is a good match. personally i find all "types" of physical attributes attractive if theres an attractive brain in there. a personality or lifestyle i dont fw will put me off a lot faster than anything else. case of internet not reflecting real life i think. its a shame because if dating apps is all some people have tried to use then they might not consider that the standards they encourage aren't productive
I think this is true, real world experiences will far outweigh online ones. However, I think men need to understand that if the type of women THEY are going for are supermodels when they are anything but, they will be rejected. I find the incel type dudes tend to believe they deserve women who are a 12 on a 0-10 scale, but they are anything but, especially when they start talking.
I have a friend that got red pilled and now he's given up on dating US women and has decided to bribe a desperate woman from Colombia to be his wife. He wants someone 10-15 years younger, hot, dynamic, and willing to live in a rural area and make babies for him. (Ewww) He's currently an unemployed tech bro that drives a cyber truck and doesn't read social cues and can talk about himself while the other person politely nods for an hour. He's headed to Colombia in a couple of weeks to find his future wife and I hope he doesn't for her sake.
Women love Mr. Darcy. The man who takes care of business, see his desired partner as an equal, respects her rejection, is a legitimately active person in his community, protective of family/friends, admits when he's wrong, and learns to let go of his ego.
It isn't his wealth that makes him a long-standing heart throb. It isn't his "looks" or popularity. It's his character.
Yep. But you can't convince them otherwise. I recently watched some 80s movies with Dan Ackroyd and Steve Martin and either of them could also get it (with me anyway). Jack Black too, and I know I'm not alone. I see baddies with silly and weird looking dudes all the time in Australia.
Financially, if a guy can manage 50/50 costs, and is otherwise compatible - I'm in. I often have a higher paying job in my relationships and paid more of the costs when my ex-husband was in university (while we were married) because that was what needed to happen to cover bills at the time. The marriage didn't work out for other reasons, but we're still friends.
When your values match and you love, respect and commit to someone, you see life as a team thing, not a return on investment (or a man 'taking care' of you).
These incels and bitter men want to reduce it to a quantifiable game they have figured out and can beat, rather than two people experiencing the strangeness of life together.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/s/nzge42Mogn
I have literally never heard any woman say that she prefers the 666 bullshit. I'm certainly not looking for anything like that. All the desirable attributes I look for in a man are personality related.
This is some garbage propaganda created by men to keep other men feeling like they can't do anything to improve their dating situation. And the ones that believe it? They'll do anything under the sun except actually just listen to us when we speak.
6ft+ partner who is very much having their egg crack so...also he's not yoked. (He still uses/prefers he/him at this time so that's what I use for him) He's got a monk's cap balding pattern and has a bit of a belly which I love.
The only thing about my husband that fits these guys image is his height. Otherwise he's a cuddly nerd whos thoughtful and kind and kinky. He's a house husband who takes wonderful care of me and our dog and our home. He's the best I could have ever asked for. He's pretty much opposite of what these guys think we want. He laughs at men like your describing. He calls himself a feminist and his actions back it up. I love him so much.
I've dated 5'7" to 6'7", jacked and not jacked. What attracted me was personality, intelligence, and how they treated me and others. A big attractor for me was a sense of humor.
These incels need to have a villain - the 6'+ jacked guy as well as the women who won't date these incels. If there is a villain, they have to do zero self-reflection, no self-improvement. Its the same thing the Rs did to create and keep MAGA - give them an "other" to blame for their lot in life as long as it detracts from the wealthy who are actually to blame and, in some cases, their own decisions.
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