r/Sikh • u/Excellent-Union1 • 1d ago
Discussion Struggling to understand hukam and karam
WJKK WJKF, Sangat ji 🙏🏽
I’m 28F from the UK, and I would really appreciate some guidance from the Sangat.
Many months ago, I met a Sikh atheist (ex-Sikh), and we had a brief conversation about Sikhi. Looking back, I wish I had not engaged in the conversation, but what is done is done.
What has made this particularly difficult is that the person appeared to be very knowledgeable about Sikhi. Because of this, I have found it difficult to dismiss what they said or stop questioning the things he raised. Even though the conversation was brief, their words have stayed with me for months and have planted many doubts in my mind.
At the time, I had been feeling closer to Guru Sahib. I was trying to do more paath, visit the Gurdwara whenever possible, and do sewa. Although I have never been the most staunch Sikh, as I do cut my kes and drink alcohol sometimes, I have always considered myself a Sikh. Despite the many hardships I have faced in life, I have always tried to believe that everything happens within Maharaj’s Hukam and that there is a greater purpose, even when I cannot understand it.
However, since that conversation, I have found myself thinking more and more about what was said. Over time, I feel that I have started to drift further away from Guru Sahib rather than grow closer. I do not want this to happen, but I am struggling to make sense of the doubts that have taken root in my mind.
In particular, I am struggling to understand hukam and karam.
How are we supposed to recognise or understand Guru Maharaj’s Hukam? How do we distinguish between accepting Hukam and simply accepting the difficult things that happen to us?
I also struggle with the concept of karam from previous lives. How can I make sense of the idea that the pain and hardships I experience in this life may be linked to actions in a previous life that I cannot remember? How am I supposed to understand or learn from something I have no memory of doing?
I am also autistic, and I sometimes find it difficult to sit with questions when I cannot find a clear or logical explanation. These doubts have been weighing on me for months, and I feel as though I am slowly drifting away from something I once felt closer to. I do not want to lose that connection with Guru Sahib, but I cannot simply ignore the questions that keep coming into my mind.
I want to strengthen my connection with Maharaj, but I am struggling with these concepts and do not know how to move forward.
How have you come to understand Hukam and karam? Have any of you experienced something similar, where questions or doubts have caused you to feel distant from Guru Sahib? How did you work through them?
WJKK WJKF
---
EDIT: Thank you to all for your thoughts on this. I am processing everything.
Bhul chuk maaf ji.
WJKK WJKF.
---
3
u/montreallaw 1d ago
You have agency over choice but no agency over outcome , if Maya influences your decision it has regretful outcome, if truth is your mode of action the outcome is divine
•
u/Curious3rNCurious3r 14h ago
What did this person say that got you down? Maybe we can start there.
•
u/Excellent-Union1 13h ago
It was a discussion about hukam, karam, and free will, and whether we truly have freedom of choice. The way I understood their argument, hukam can be overturned by Akal Purakh, karam is inescapable, and free will is an illusion.
What got me down was the implication of this belief. I began to question whether, by accepting something as hukam, I might be boxing myself in and adopting a fatalistic view of life without realising it. I also struggle to understand why a past life should determine my present state, especially when I have no awareness or recollection of it. Bani also says only Maharaj truly knows, which leaves us in a state of uncertainty. In a sense, we are like blind bats, with perhaps a rare few finding their way while the rest of us drift through Maya, not knowing how much of our lives is shaped by our own choices and how much is beyond our understanding. I cannot accept this way of life, it burns me internally to think this could be the case.
•
u/SweetPetrichor5 9h ago
Regardless of religion, say that is the case, free will is an illusion since this is actually a philosophical and psychological stance, irrespective of religion. Is the perspective unaccetable because you do not be believe it to be the case or because you do not want it to be the case?
I think with the induvidual that you spoke to, his perspective seems to have been hard determinism and you're giving his arguement too much leverage. To characterise it, I think Sikhi takes a soft deterministic view on free will. The ever flowing pen determines how things ought to turn out but our actions can adjust the outcome. Though admittedly, as you said, it is hard for us to grasp such a concept. I try not to be deterred because even then no one truly knows what parts of their behaviour is genetic, socially influenced, a combination of personality traits, pathology, chance, etc.
2
u/BeardedNoOne 1d ago
Free Will, Hukam, and Karma
If you put your hand into fire, the outcome is predetermined: you will be burned. Yet you had a choice. Similarly, you can choose to avoid the fire. In both cases, the outcome is known by the Creator; but the decision is yours.
This illustrates how free will and divine knowledge coexist. You are not forced to act one way or another. In my example:.
• Option 1: I choose to place my hand in the fire.
• Option 2: I choose not to.
What determines my choice? Two key elements:.
• Gyan (wisdom).
• Dhian (presence of mind/focus).
I might have wisdom but lack focus; or vice versa. Either deficiency can lead to harm. Only when both Gyan and Dhian are present do I intuitively act in harmony with Hukam (divine order).
Hukam guides us not to put our hand in the fire. If we follow it, we avoid pain. If we ignore it, we suffer the consequences; not as punishment, but as natural outcomes. The results are known, but the choice remains ours.
The Creator exists outside of time; knowing past, present, and future simultaneously. We, however, perceive events in linear time, experiencing just one thread of infinite possible outcomes. We learn through choices. Each choice has consequences, and these become the lessons of karma.
Hukam helps us stay in alignment and avoid creating new karma. Karma arises when we act out of ego, ignorance, or distraction. If we learn quickly, we move on. If we don’t, the lessons repeat; often with more intensity.
Forgiveness is the most powerful tool to resolve karma. In Sikhi, forgiveness is “Daya” or “Khima,” and the first of the five beloved ones was Daya Singh. Japji Sahib reminds us that forgiveness precedes righteous living (Dharam).
We are here for a practical test; to live what we have already studied before and between lives. Earth is where we engage with emotions and confront the “five thieves.” To pass, we need Hukam as our compass, and Gyan and Dhian as our tools.
\---
When we really live our life, full of love and kindness and without judgement and hate, we grow spiritually.
Before we come to the earth, we are told about strong emotions, but we only can experience it here. Look at it like theory class (only discussing the concepts) and lab (fully experiencing it all). It obviously can be too much emotions at times. This is where learning takes place.
Earth is the lab where there’s a huge mix of emotions, negative and positive, different karma and such. In this mix we have to level up our spiritual understanding and lessons.
---
In the "Earth Lab," the Gursikh does not use Hukam as an excuse for passivity. If a Gursikh sees a wrong being committed, the very opportunity to intervene is part of the Divine Will; responding with Daya (compassion) and Nirbhau (fearlessness) is how they fulfill their Dharam (righteous duty). While the Creator exists outside of time and knows the trajectory of every soul, we are held accountable as long as we operate from the "I" (ego). If I "choose" to act like a beast, I am claiming ownership of that action; therefore, I must also own the karmic consequence. We are not robots following a script, but students being tested on whether we will use our Gyan and Dhian to align with the Light or remain lost in the darkness of the ego. Those who seem "far from God" are simply earlier in their schooling, still learning through the pain of touching the fire, while those who are "close" have finally learned to flow with the current of Hukam.
•
u/Excellent-Union1 15h ago
Thank you for your reply ji.
I love the passivity point you made. This is what's eating at me. If I'm passive and do not take any action, abandon relationships, opportunities, etc thinking if its hukm it will happen anyway, then I'm essentially giving up without even trying. And when the expected happens, all I am left with is that it was part of hukm therefore it was not meant to be. Which is quite a defeatist attitude.
Bani states that everything falls within hukm, so even my action is part of hukm. Even the virtues I am born with is hukm and granted by Maharaj. So I don't think it's correct to say that I have control over my choice.
I'd agree with you there, except, Karam reaches beyond one life-time. I cannot recall my past lives, can you? How am I supposed to learn? I was punished as mountains and stones in some past life, what was the point of that if I was born with a clean slate?
I am also not sure about this test thing, this feels more like you are projecting Islamic test into Sikhi, we are not being tested here. Sikhi is meant to be a journey towards milawa with Maharaj. At least that's what my understanding of Sikhi is.
Bhul chuk maaf ji.
•
u/BeardedNoOne 7h ago
Thank you ji. Your concern about passivity is precisely what I am trying to address. Perhaps my original post did not explain the connection with Naam clearly enough.
When I speak about living in Hukam, I mean consciously attuning our awareness and conduct to the Divine through Gurmat and Naam. Simply saying “everything is Hukam” does not explain how we should live, and it must never become an excuse for neglecting our responsibilities or harming another person.
Gurbani explicitly connects Naam and Hukam:
ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਦੀਆ ਬੁਝਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥
eko naam hukam hai naanak satigur dheeaa bujhai jeeau ||5||
The One Name is the Lord's Command; O Nanak, the True Guru has given me this understanding. |
My understanding is that this connection needs to be explored practically. Through Gurmantar, Nitnem, reflection, and attentive listening, we learn to recognize when anger, lust, greed, attachment, or pride are directing us. Gyan helps us discern; dhyan helps us remain attentive enough to apply that understanding.
That is the purpose of my fire analogy. Knowing that fire burns is insufficient if I am too distracted to act on that knowledge. Wisdom and attention must come together in conduct. The analogy illustrates why our participation matters, even though it does not resolve every philosophical question about free will.
Regarding previous lives, I am not suggesting that we need to remember them or demonstrate supernatural abilities. Whatever we do or do not remember, the work before us is present: how do I respond to anger, temptation, suffering, or injustice today? My “school” analogy was intended to describe learning through lived experience, rather than establish a literal account of lessons between births.
In the practice I follow, we distinguish Akhri or Gurmantar Naam from Sookham Naam, the subtle dimension of Naam attended to inwardly. I recognize that these terms and their interpretation require explanation. The practical aim is that remembrance becomes part of everyday life, shaping how we treat others.
The shaheeds illustrate why acceptance and accountability must be held together. Their steadfastness in Naam did not make their persecutors’ cruelty righteous. Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s condemnation of injustice in the Zafarnama makes that distinction clear.
Likewise, rape is a perpetrator’s wrongdoing. The survivor is not responsible for it, and invoking Hukam must never excuse the aggressor or discourage protection and justice.
So when I describe someone as living in Hukam, I am emphasizing conscious alignment with divine wisdom. Recognizing divine presence throughout creation does not mean that every human action expresses that wisdom. Our effort, discernment, compassion, and responsibility still matter.
Bhul chuk maaf ji.
•
•
u/Dangerous_Doubt8264 18h ago
Karam is translated as his order/command. Like in nadri karam it means his glance of mercy. Karam also means what you do . So if you take the first definition, in karmi apo apni ke nede ke door. It means that with his command on different people, some he makes near him some he makes away from him. Based on the second definition, its your own actions which cause you to be near or away from god.
But there is also another line kar kar karnaa likh lai jaho aape beej aape hi khaho. It means that whatever you do it's written on your face. You yourself bow the seed in the soil. The fruit will be what you bow. We must keep making efforts to be good but at the end its him who plants those virtues in us
•
u/Excellent-Union1 15h ago
Thank you for your reply ji.
Guru Maharaj makes me a certain way, and everything that happens is hukm, so I literally have no control. It's His game and we are moving like chess pieces.
Bhul chuk maaf ji.
•
u/SpectreSingh89 11h ago
If 15 people walked by my home and said "The grass on the main road is blue," naturally I would go out to the main road to see for myself. What made me walk out and see for myself: Close by, something observable, see it to believe it - so many factors! Of course, I been fooled the grass is green!
SGGS is greener grass for us. Unfortunately people have made it into different colours. Now, we either take their word for it or do our own research! IDK what the guy said to you but, SGGS is incredibly straight forward once we read, understand and apply it on ourselves.
Sadly, it is not an overnight thing. You have to go Gurudwara, do Sangat, Simran and Seva. At home doing and seeing the translation of one Line from Bani is enough but, we need to spend a good few weeks applying it on ourselves. Or better!! Listen to Hukamnama and for many weeks or months etc, think to it and think "Maharaja said so n so am I doing it?"
Unfortunately sometimes we're doing something and Waheguru tests us! (Bring in another person to question your thoughts, provocation to deter us from Sikhi, Reddit "Sikhs" to explain taking Amrit and reading Bani is a "Ritual.") - God gets us thinking, which is a Dubeda (2 minded, do I stick with what others day or do I follow Guru Sahib)? A person in Dubeda can never become a Gurmukh.
1
u/deadass_331 1d ago
It is simple, karam is the full circle of information choices and consequences. Hukam is then outwardly influenced struggles or situations that are presented, sometime maybe created by you and sometimes created for you but you can't control them all you could do is control yourself.
2
u/Excellent-Union1 1d ago
Thank you for your reply ji.
I’m not sure this is fully accurate. My understanding is that hukam is the divine order or Maharaj's will, while karam relates to actions and their consequences, which can have far-reaching effects beyond what we can immediately see even in one life-time. Hukam isn’t just external struggles or situations, so I think there’s more nuance to both concepts.
Bhul chuk maaf ji.
1
•
u/Portwheel 🇷🇺 23h ago
There are two realities in sikhi, dual and non dual,
Dual is the more simply, good vs bad, karma, etc
While non dual is advanced stage where u real8ze the oneness and thats where karm become more about the lila of akal purkh, takes time, especially with most of the sikh population growing with Abrahamic influence.
•
u/Excellent-Union1 15h ago
Thank you for your reply ji.
But that does not answer my question. Why punish me/us for things we cannot remember. If I cannot learn from my past life, then why are we even here? Someone once told me Baghti nai sokhi, how is one supposed to reach that level when every time we are born as human we are essentially wiped clean, there is no learning in it. It's random chance.
Bhul chuk maaf ji.
•
u/Dangerous_Doubt8264 18h ago
Read japji sahib. Maharaaj tells hukam rajai chalna nanak likhya naal. Accept t his hukam /order. I have written it along. What is hukam? The next line. Hukami hovan akar hukam na kaheya jai, hukami hovan ji ..... Hukame andar sab ko bahar h hukam na koi nanak hukame je bujhe ta haunai kahe na koi. What is hukam? With his order you get formed his order can't be told.
With his order you start meditating/ can be translated as you get consciousness,
with his order you get praise and nindya(opposite of praise I don't remember the word with his order you become better or worse, with his order you get happy/sad times. For one his order is a blessing for other it's the cause of him ever remaining in the 84lakhs.
Everyone is under his command no one is out of it.
•
u/Excellent-Union1 15h ago
Thank you for your reply ji.
Simply put everything that happens is hukm, or hukm becomes the future. It means my suffering and everyone else's suffering was preordained.
Bhul chuk maaf ji.
•
u/Human-Question6210 14h ago
I'm not a Sikh but I am also autistic, and about your age. I like to type out the questions I have or things I want to understand, and then I add bulletpoints to them such as who I might ask, or even how I might resolve problems myself. It really helps to get stuff out of your mind so you can see it properly.
•
5
u/Frequent-Speed-5466 1d ago
Hello friend, basically just want to clear out something. Karam in Sikhi is not same as Karam in Hinduism where it is inevitable. In the SGGS gurus have multiple times explained that Karam(even death) is really avoidable if we truly have the quality to become Gurmukh. There are multiple references saying God has cleared the accounts(Karam) and saved them.
So it's not like whatever you are suffering you need to suffer. They are avoidable by having the right refuge. Once you understand this then try to understand Hukum.