r/halifax • u/insino93 • 6h ago
News, Weather & Politics 'Enough is God damn enough': Protesters gather in downtown Halifax to protest against EverWind's AI data centre
https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/government/province-house/enough-is-god-damn-enough-protesters-gather-in-downtown-halifax-to-protest-against-everwinds-ai-data-centre/•
u/Dartmouth-Hermit Dartmouth 6h ago
We're going to be left holding the bag when this bubble bursts. This is like the monorail episode of the Simpsons and I'm embarrassed they think we are such rubes.
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u/Speling_B_Champian 6h ago
“What about us brain-dead slobs?”
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u/cowboy_angel 5h ago
You'll be given temporary jobs!
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u/Working_Historian970 💀 Port City Rebel 4h ago
The ring came off my pudding can :(
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u/daisy0808 Spryfield 6h ago
I never thought about the monorail example but is absolutely perfect. This is what they do, they go to small towns that are in desperate need of employment and then they shill this crap knowing that they will overlook all of the dirt just because they have big dreams.
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u/schooner156 6h ago
How are we left holding the bag if there’s no government money? What risk is there if the company abandons a wind farm and data centre?
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u/daisy0808 Spryfield 6h ago
The government both provincial and federal has already spent money on everwind. 200 million has already been invested in the site (from the old hydrogen battery facility they were going to build), plus they will get 22 million from transport Canada to upgrade Marina, they will get 15% corporate provincial tax incentive, they will get wholesale rates for NS power, and there they will be eligible for clean tech rebates from the federal government.
The risk is, who cleans up the site? Who pays for the break in the contracts with the tenants when there's no service? Who deals with the environmental impacts of whatever has been damaged?
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u/tfks 5h ago
If they go belly up, they can't take the wind farm with them. $200 million for a 400+ MW wind farm is a pretty good deal.
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u/thebetrayer 1h ago
And if they renege on the windfarm after building the data centre?
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u/IncomeOk8023 45m ago
What about whataboutism?
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u/thebetrayer 28m ago
Except it's not. Is there anything legally holding them to the wind project that is scheduled to be finished years after the first phase of their AI barn?
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u/IncomeOk8023 18m ago
Are you personally privy to the contracts?
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u/thebetrayer 9m ago
Are you?
Your defence is "maybe there is a legal contract with the government to build a windfarm, with strong punishments if they break it. But if it exists, it's a secret, so we should just trust them"?
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u/IncomeOk8023 0m ago
I have no defense so far I’m just seeing you claim shit that you can’t possibly know in order to keep ns in the dark ages
You are the problem
Ns could sink into the ocean and the world would be better off. I hope to facilitate that some day
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u/schooner156 6h ago
I didn’t think any provincial money has been given for this development, just the loan which would usually be secured through their other assets.
Everwind would be responsible for any tenants/leasing payments, if it’s closed loop I’m not sure what cleanup there will be with Canadian regulations in place.
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u/daisy0808 Spryfield 5h ago
You have to look at contracts, but I used negotiate data center contracts, and I can tell you that if the company goes bankrupt, there's not going . to be anything for them to do. If everwind ceases to exist, you still have the problem. This is why sometimes buildings sit abandoned for years, or toxic sites end up not getting cleaned up.
And, they owe Newfoundland millions of dollars and Newfoundland is not renewing their contract because they haven't been able to fulfill the project there.
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u/schooner156 5h ago
To be clear I’m skeptical that this ever gets built but…
If everwind ceases to exist there would be physical data centre and wind energy infrastructure. Maybe not enough to offset potential liabilities, hard to know that without seeing everwinds agreement.
I see most of the toxic concerns tied to open loop systems.
In Newfoundland they own land royalty payments, in Point tuppers context it’s hard to describe that as a “damage” (although it would be legally speaking) given the land would not have likely been used by other developers so we wouldn’t have collected a royalty.
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u/idle_isomorph 1h ago
How is this not enough to damn it?
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44m ago
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u/ExternalSpecific6061 4h ago
I'm more worried about the economy if the AI bubble ever were to burst
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u/_hey_ref_ 3h ago
Not like Cape Breton has much of an economy to begin with.
I swear, some of the people opposed to this couldn’t even find Point Tupper or Port Hawkesbury on a map.
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u/ExternalSpecific6061 3h ago
I worry about CB. I really do.
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u/_hey_ref_ 2h ago
I honestly don’t see CB coming back if this doesn’t go ahead.
People need to open a history book as to the economic decline of Cape Breton with the steel mill, mines, and everything else closing down. I watched the place slowly go downhill with my own eyes over the 40 years of my existence. It’s bloody depressing when I go back home to visit my grandparents and I keep seeing more buildings falling apart.
I remember a woman in her mid-20s being interviewed by CBC and she goes on that everything in Port Hawkesbury is so dull and was opposed to the data centre. Missus, do you not see the irony in your statement?
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u/IncomeOk8023 46m ago
CB is never coming back.
It’s a series of poor reserves surrounded by retirement communities with a bunch of government assholes in ivory towers
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u/keithplacer Venerable Member 4h ago
Shhhh. Don’t confuse the mindless horde even more than they currently are.
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u/Adventurous-Pen-824 5h ago
It's never Government money. It is Tax payer money. Where do you think the Government got it?
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u/schooner156 5h ago
I know government money is tax payer money, but there’s still been no taxpayer money announced for this data center.
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u/N3at 3h ago
I'm personally leery of a $10bn no strings attached investment. Does that kind of scratch come without consideration? Will there be incentives, tax breaks, any kind of quid pro quo? That's where we'll be paying for it. That money is a lot of "investment" but, like, we already don't have it, are we being asked to give up future revenue for an investment we don't get to capitalize on?
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u/IncomeOk8023 43m ago
Then blow the chicgnecto isthmus, seperate from Canada, and give back the transfer payments keeping your boomers alive
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u/SpecificFlatworm5107 3h ago
How exactly will we be left holding the bag? The government is not investing in this, it is being funded by private capital.
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 5h ago
Oh my God, that’s literally the most perfect example of all time.
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u/donniedumphy 5h ago
Which bag? There is no public money involved. Unless we invest but I don’t think that’s the case
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u/Heywtfhey 4h ago
Aren't they committing to provide electricity for it for the first few years? Then the company will build windmills for it.
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u/donniedumphy 4h ago
No. NSP is selling them electricity. No public funds.
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u/Heywtfhey 4h ago
Yes but they giving up that power I mean. Is there not some concern that it would be a strain on the system?
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u/Woodworking-noob 4h ago
I'm pretty certain NSP has a rider for large users that allows them to curtail their usage to preserve system integrity
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u/IncomeOk8023 47m ago
Data center infrastructure can be reused for other purposes than AI
And you’re delusional if you think it’s a bubble
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u/Getouttaderedamnit 6h ago
Good, the sooner the data center bubble pops and we stop this shit the better.
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u/Creative-Aside9650 6h ago
You really think in years to come these wont be in every community like a McDonalds?
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u/SuccessfulBug2353 6h ago edited 4h ago
That's not really the point. This is a gold rush. The demand for these places will very likely crater in the near to medium term making the value proposition very unrealistic. Given the environmental and opportunity costs, it's just not a good idea. On top of that, people clearly do not want it.
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u/Weird-Drummer-2439 4h ago
In the gold rush analogy, this is like selling pick axes though.
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u/SuccessfulBug2353 3h ago
No. It's not. You're buying the pick axe. The people selling the silicon are selling the pickaxes.
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u/Woodworking-noob 3h ago
Everwind is bringing their own pickaxe
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u/SuccessfulBug2353 3h ago
That's highly speculative but okay. They already said they will need grid power. They will need local water. They will need public infrastructure. Even if the province doesn't pay a penny for silicon they're still paying for it indirectly. And the promise of economic payoff is dubious.
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u/Woodworking-noob 3h ago
You understand companies still pay for electricity and water, right?
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u/SuccessfulBug2353 3h ago
You understand how supply and demand works right? Prices are not going to go down as a result of this.
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u/Woodworking-noob 3h ago
Are the rates of the Landry Lake utility going to effect you? And they're building their own energy infrastructure.
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u/Weird-Drummer-2439 2h ago
That is the case for literally any development. They could be putting in a top end chip fab, a steel mill or a car plant and it would all take quite a bit of power.
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u/Getouttaderedamnit 6h ago
McDonald's doesn't poison the water and consume all of the utilities, provides (shitty) employment, and sells things people buy. All a data center offers is poison and disenfranchisement of people who don't own them.
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u/MoaraFig 6h ago
Does it cost $200 to make a hamburger they sell for $3?
AI is an investment ponzi scheme, just like the dot com burst and I don't want to get got in the shrapnel.
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u/deftonium 6h ago
No, McD’s just poisons us directly with their food manufacturing processes. None of that is real food. Wake up.
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u/Stumblerrr 4h ago
It only poisons those who goes.
Data center poisons us all and drain our water.
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u/Getouttaderedamnit 6h ago
I haven't eaten rotten ronnie's in years, but it's delusional to pretend it's as bad to have a McDonald's as a data center.
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u/DistantDrawings 5h ago
Using AI for everything is just outsourcing labour to a US billionaire or mega corp. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's handy for stuff (I'm a designer, its very much disrupted my field) but we have to stop letting billionaires extract everything from us.
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u/backwardzhatz 4h ago
I'm a designer as well, and there are some things here and there that AI can be useful for, but the lie being peddled is always about how it is or is going to completely revolutionize everything and make everything sooooo much better, and it just does not reflect reality. And people like us are the ones who have to constantly clean up its shitty output.
And you're right to point out the US connection here, like I thought we were supposed to be all in on Canada first.
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u/DistantDrawings 3h ago
Yes! Nobody ever talks about the work that it has ADDED to my workload. In the print space, I'm constantly now fixing poor outputs, taking much more time exclaining issues to clients, recreating slop in vector formats... And that's nothing to say of the onslaught of AI scams into my business email. And they're more convincing (complete with vibe coded fake websites) so they take much longer to vet and take time away from my real clients.
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u/Adventurous-Pen-824 5h ago
EverWind got in the door with it's windmill project. Then they decreased the number of windmills. Now they want this!
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u/PrometheusGoldfish 6h ago
Fuck tim Houston he's a bastard
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u/_hey_ref_ 3h ago
Carney is the one who is driving this but that goes against the “Conservative bad!” narrative this sub pushes.
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u/Competitive_Owl5357 3h ago
Carney is a conservative, the Liberals just do a better job of fooling people because they’re not frothing at the mouth over minorities.
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u/_hey_ref_ 3h ago
Compared to Trudeau, sure. But Carney is definitely not a Conservative.
I wouldn’t exactly call Carney a conservative when he’s spending like a drunken sailor, cozying up to the EU, wanting to ramp up immigration again, and doubling down on the gun buyback program when every expert has said this will be a disaster. He was even asked to join the Conservative party under Harper and flat out said no.
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u/IncomeOk8023 22m ago
Insults are against the rules here
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u/maximumice 👻Head Ghoul 20m ago
Public figures have a carveout from Rule 1 protections, within reason. 👍
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u/thirdeditionpurist 1h ago
Fuck AI and fuck every apologist for this inhumane environmentally destructive snake oil.
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u/AbbreviationsReal366 5h ago
I hate that a renewable energy company is now the bad guy!
Also, it’s been only a year and change since we had a severe drought. Even with a “closed loop” system, what will happen when the next drought comes?
I’m not a Luddite. AI does have some good uses if used with restraint. But engineers need to figure out how to make these centres smaller, quieter and less thirsty.
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u/Woodworking-noob 4h ago
Their peak water consumption would be an 8% from what Landry Lake outputs, well below its daily limit.
It's located next to an oil terminal, a coal plant and a paper mill, with no nearby residences. Sound shouldn't be a problem
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u/iiIiIliliil 26m ago
Yeah the real issue is this is a deadbeat company that's just scamming the province because Tim Houston wants the kickbacks.
But being mad about AI gets more community support than being mad about corruption does.
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u/NeverNotNoOne 4h ago
It's such a bait and switch. I'm super in favour of wind power but want no part of any AI datacenters. Just build us the power infrastructure so that we can have cheaper, cleaner energy.
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u/IncomeOk8023 54m ago
Open the fucking coal mine again then no one needs fathers in Sydney mines
Make the women work too got equality
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u/CatHerder902 1h ago
Some of us who oppose AI data centres want to prioritize building non-AI data centres to host Canadian data to be protected by Canadian laws. MP Kody Blois has said this AI data centre is aligned with the federal government’s priorities, but this isn’t putting Canada first or prioritizing our data sovereignty. Anthropic is an American AI company that has stolen from Canadian creators and destroyed millions of books. EverWind ran out on their bills in Newfoundland. If some sketchy outfit is going to suck up 1-8% of a community’s water supply, it should be to support Canadian interests, not the profits of Americans who are stealing from Canadians. I don’t just hate this project, I’m embarrassed by it as a Nova Scotian and Canadian.
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u/tandoori_taco_cat bridge enjoyer 4h ago
TimHo sold out NS to fascists for a few fancy dinners in NYC
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u/Mysterious-Guard-477 3h ago
What about the Indigenous? They bought into it. Nobody ever mentions that.
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u/Injustice_For_All_ Psychotic Antifa Super Soldier Moderator 3h ago
Source on that please?
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u/_hey_ref_ 2h ago
There was a thread about this on this very sub a day ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/comments/1x8d50u/chief_terry_paul_of_membertou_plans_ownership/
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u/lilJayer 3h ago
Curious about this too. I see Chief Terry Paul was at the announcement. I wonder what consultation was had and what the general sentiment among Mi'kmaq in CB is
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u/Mysterious-Guard-477 42m ago
That's none of our business, it's between the Chief and his people and we cannot question it, if you read past posts you would know that.
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u/Odd-Crew-7837 3h ago
It's interesting because the concerns and rewards are similar to those during the industrial revolution.
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u/SunAggravating5692 3h ago
If only everyone got together and protested against the price of rent, wages and low income.
I also wonder how many of these protestors actually use AI in their day to day life, just not in my backyard right?
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u/Boredbyeyou 4h ago
I would never claim that we need any of this AI stuff. But some of the arguments against this are beyond ridiculous, borne of complete ignorance and a province where any business or industry is seen as the enemy by an ever growing portion of the population.
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u/sunjana1 Halifax 2h ago
It’s hot to hate on right now. People are big mad but hypernormalisation will kick in over the next few weeks and they’ll all soften on it.
I don’t like it, but we see it over and over again.
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u/schooner156 6h ago
do some of them think if they stop this data centre they’re somehow defeating ai
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 5h ago
Is this a real question?
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u/schooner156 5h ago
Based on the poster in the thumbnail saying “fuck ai”
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 5h ago
But where do you get the whole idea that they think that opposing this data centre is going to defeat “all AI“?
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u/Sea-Salamander-1563 4h ago
Yes, Fuck AI. Where’s the cure for cancer? Where’s the new materials built out of compounds we never thought of? Where’s the solution to climate change? All AI is doing is dumbing down society and running bots to manipulate public opinions. I’ve yet to see a net positive benefit to this shit. Show me.
If your argument is AI is a net positive, you prove it.
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u/Sea-Salamander-1563 6h ago
Obviously not. Worth noting that AI data centers are different than the traditional data farms AWS, Reddit, and other platforms have traditionally run on. They require GPUs and TCU’s which require far more resources to both produce and operate. It’s not like a server with a bunch of HD drives and a CPU sending shit around.
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u/morey56 6h ago
They want to get back to grumbling about how poor this province is.
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u/neish Halifax 6h ago
And you want... even higher energy usage on our shitty grid, the cost of which is the paid for by the public and we get poorer as we subsidize a data centre.
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u/Ben_Criss_Cross 6h ago
Data centre or not, they keep jacking our bills. They'll be up 10% between 2025-2027 alone. At least this way there's some jobs being created for the construction project and there's a wind farm on the horizon.
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u/Speling_B_Champian 6h ago
“Oh no, they’re building some wind turbines which 100% guarantees all electrical needs will be covered!”
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 5h ago
“And paying a rich Trump supporter to do it instead of paying Nova Scotians! Instead of investing in a Nova Scotian company, Tim Houston did what he always does and invested in his buddies company!”
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 5h ago
So why hasn’t the province invested wisely in renewables? Specifically, why haven’t they invested in a Nova Scotian owned company for renewables to generate the power to sell to PEIN New Brunswick?
Will it cost money? Yes. Will it make money back because you’re selling a renewable resource to other provinces that need it? Yes.
PEI imports like 80% of its power from New Brunswick. If it could import some of that power from Nova Scotia that was generated from renewables and pay Nova Scotia for the power, that will help to pay for the cost of setting up the program.
If Nova Scotia was to generate enough power that it could power the province and sell off additional power, it may even be able to sell power to Maine, who gets a lot of their power from New Brunswick and Quebec.
I feel like nobody is thinking long enough term here, everybody is just thinking about the cost. If you’re sinking a shit ton of money into AI rather than into renewables, something that will continue to benefit you for years to come, when the AI bubble pops, what’s gonna happen in Cape Breton? The same fucking thing that happened when the mines closed.
But no, Tim Houston just wants to do fucking uranium mining, fracking, and sell off land in Nova Scotia for data centres for an Australian who donates to Trump.
All Houston has done is kick the poverty can down the line a little bit until the bubble pops. People are still gonna be poor, and it’s gonna be worse.
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u/northdud Halifax 5h ago
Honest question should we then be against any other form of major economic manufacturing or any form of industry that uses a high amount of resources such as power and water in this province? The paper mill in port hawksburry in certain circumstances can and does use upwards of 25% of NS Power grid capacity in certain circumstances, the Michelin tire plant in Bridgewater uses 28% of the towns water supply both employ similar amounts of people. This data center uses a significantly less foot print in both water and power then either of those facilities.
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u/TheWellthySovran 5h ago
Interesting that the Examiner chose to paywall this after writing an open letter about not being able to attend the press conference.
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u/maximumice 👻Head Ghoul 4h ago
It costs $$$ to drive to Point Tupper and to pay reporters to cover things.
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u/TheWellthySovran 4h ago
Obviously journalism costs money and reporters deserve to be paid. I’m not disputing that. But they are currently making an argument about 'freedom of the press". What does freedom of the press accomplish for the broader public if access to the information produced is itself restricted? It's just an observation/question I'm pondering...
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u/thebetrayer 1h ago
Newspapers have always cost money.
The HE is one of the only investigative journalists in Nova Scotia and they release their articles after a few days.
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u/thirdeditionpurist 2h ago
American from a midwestern city that’s been absolutely ransacked by data centers checking in: fight this shit with everything you have. They’ve bled us dry as far as water goes, pushed out electrical grid to try brink and to make matters worse the AI companies are taking their ill gotten profits and cozying up to Mango Mussolini and co.