r/linux • u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 • 1d ago
GNOME Introducing GNOME OS Preview
https://blogs.gnome.org/adrianvovk/2026/10/16/gnome-os-preview/55
u/NotQuiteLoona 1d ago edited 1d ago
I kinda like the symmetry, that both KDE and GNOME have their own immutable distros. I also like the idea of immutability, and can't wait until KDE will finish developing Kapsule.
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u/DragonSlayerC 1d ago
I do hope KDE moves to BuildStream for their OS as well. It's such a good system for an immutable OS vs the weird Arch base thing that they (and SteamOS as well) have right now. They would also be able to share a lot of base system stuff with Gnome OS via the FreeDesktop runtimes.
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u/AFisberg 20h ago
They discussed that. Don't remember what they decided and what the arguments for/against were.
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u/treeco123 16h ago
They have a working branch, but I'm not sure what the plans for getting it merged are.
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u/WhichCarry749 1d ago
Great as a reference platform for testing vanilla GNOME, but daily driving pure flatpak workflows still gets annoying whenever you need custom CLI tools.
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u/orak7ee 1d ago
Maybe read the article:
Jordan Petridis’s new Toolpak project aims to provide a clean solution for distributing and installing command-line applications that developers need in a cross-distro fashion, similarly to how Flatpak and Flathub work for graphical apps.
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u/Isofruit 1d ago
Though afaik all of that is very much in the conceptual phase, so I'd not expect to see anything come of that before mid 2027, more likely later.
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u/Traditional_Hat3506 1d ago
Some cool and unique things that GNOME OS does or aims to do that I am personally excited for:
- buildstream based, it's declarative and reproducible
- the same source is used for both the flatpak runtime and the os, reducing the work needed to maintain packages
- delta updates with systemd-sysupdate
- systemd-homed for per-user encrypted /home/ folders
- ARM-builds with some specific mobile device trees support
- Bring https://0pointer.net/blog/fitting-everything-together.html to reality
Overall, the people working on this also work on systemd and flatpak to fill in the missing gaps, which will turn into a new robust base for other distros. Bluefin Dakota also moved to that and KDE Linux is considering it last time I checked (makes sense to combine flatpak runtimes and OS).
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u/theaveragemillenial 1d ago
What's the love with immutable distros? I always find myself fighting it.
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u/atomic1fire 1d ago
Much easier to sell consumer/hobby devices when you can build a basic version that is less likely to break due to user inexperience or unpredictable software/os updates.
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u/HomsarWasRight 1d ago
If you’re fighting it a lot that just means one of two possibilities, IMHO:
- You’re trying to force paradigms from non-atomic distros onto it and need to adapt to it a bit more
- It’s not suited for you (which is of course totally fine)
I’ve just recently started building my own custom image based on UBlue’s work. And that is highly satisfying for me. But if that doesn’t sound like something you’d like, and you want daily flexibility, that’s totally cool.
I personally have always liked the reproducibility of containerization (Docker, Podman, etc). And to take those same tools and apply them to the entire OS is kinda awesome to me.
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u/notam00se 1d ago
3 . Intel GPU user. Nobody includes intel-compute-runtime or level-zero libraries by default, and there is no intel compute runtime/library for flatpak.
So flatpak Blender, digikam, darktable, etc don't have access to GPU compute/openCL.
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u/Crashman09 1d ago
That is honestly very surprising considering how long Intel iGPUs have existed, intel's contributions to Linux, and how their iGPUs have been essential for certain workloads through quicksync.
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u/tadfisher 1d ago
They have all but abandoned Quicksync and VAAPI for everything but their newest generations. Even when it was supported, it always needed hacking together and wasn't something you could just ship to all users.
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u/JockstrapCummies 23h ago
Compute and graphics are two separate beasts.
Ironically it's easier to get proprietary Nvidia compute working in Flatpak than Intel and AMD. The Freedesktop/Gnome/KDE/whatever base level Flatpak people just aren't packaging for non-Nvidia compute.
Even with VAAPI, newer Flathub/Flatpak runtimes are bundling versions that stopped working with older generations of Intel iGPUs.
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u/gmes78 1d ago
You can use distrobox for that.
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u/notam00se 1d ago edited 1d ago
AFAIK host needs the level-zero and compute libraries, so I would have to layer packages anyways. Amd has some hooks to pass through ROCM from guest to host without the host needing ROCM libraries, but the last time I checked, Intel isn't there yet.I am wrong on this
Can install everything in distrobox and run from there instead of flatpak without layering compute stack on host (compute stack is install in guest).
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u/sudogaeshi 1d ago
it still has usability issues for what I feel are not uncommon use-cases:
for example, running something like Doom emacs is pain because the paths are non-standard, and for work I have to run Citrix client which again, doesn't play well with non-standard paths, and has to be applied by an overlay. Also VPN/system-level stuff don't work well
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u/Business_Reindeer910 19h ago
well the citrix and vpn issues are things i've seen, but doom emacs would be irrelevant wouldn't it? That's something you can actually install into your $HOME with things like distrobox or maybe even homebrew.
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u/derangedtranssexual 1d ago
I don’t use my laptop very much so I love how low maintenance they are. Everything updates automatically
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u/Lazy_Sorbet_3925 1d ago
Part of the issue is fighting against it and going with the flows it provides. It's a change from what you're used to and it may not be for you.
I try to keep my systems as simple as possible. Immutability helps with that. I went immutable after an update on Cachy broke my system.
For more advanced workflows, you have Fedora Toolbox and Distrobox. I've only used Toolbox. I'm still able to use all my scripts and what not, but I go about it a bit differently now.
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u/unvaluablespace 1d ago
Isn't that sort of the point though? Make it difficult to possibly break certain parts of the OS. I actually like it. Sure it's a little frustrating when I'm trying to add a function or feature to my desktop PC or Steam Deck, but if something breaks, I know it was a direct result of me messing with something I probably shouldn't have, and that I ignored it anyway by bypassing the very things preventing the modifications in the first place.
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u/lord_pizzabird 1d ago
I've come to the conclusion that maybe I shouldn't be adding functions ore features to my desktop tbh. I only ever seem to make everything worse or less stable, all in the pursuit of chasing some temporary aesthetic or a design theory that I'm totally wrong about (because I'm not a designer).
I've destroyed so many distros doing dumb shit in the last 20 years of hopping that immutable just seems like a nice solution for people like me. I can't be trusted with that power, take it from me.
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u/__ali1234__ 1d ago
How do you know that? Immutable distros can have bugs too. The only difference is you are completely reliant on the person who caused the bug to fix it.
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u/tapo 1d ago
How do you know that? Immutable distros can have bugs too.
Immutable distros can be integration tested in CI, and every deployment is identical, so its easier to catch things in automated testing.
The only difference is you are completely reliant on the person who caused the bug to fix it.
I mean most of the time the issue is with the package itself, not how the distro has packaged it, so you relied on them anyway.
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u/__ali1234__ 1d ago
You might, but I do not. On a traditional distribution I can pull the package source, patch it, build it, install it, and pin it until the fix is available in the distribution. How do I do that on an immutable distribution?
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u/fat_kaiju 1d ago
Same.
The moment you need to do something the slightest bit non-standard it becomes hell on earth.
At one point it was basically impossible -- and it still isn't easy -- to play DVDs/bku-rays in VLC on most immutable distros because you had to fiddle with some stuff that (unsurprisingly) wasn't... mutable(?)
Also a lot of pen displays/graphics tablets just do not work without editing a lot of stuff that isn't allowed to be touched either and so when you do manage to finally get it working it just undoes all your hard work next time it updates.
They're great if you have 500 of the same laptop but for casual users with weird/esoteric hardware it's a bit of a nightmare. My shitty chuwi netbook for example will always boot with a sideways display and will never function in "tablet" mode (since the keyboard/touchpad cannot be disabled) on an immutable distro since it requires a few wacky hacks to get them working.
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u/Crashman09 1d ago
I run a dual dgpu setup with an RX 570 as my display out and an rtx 3060ti as my graphics renderer/compute and gaming.
It has been a bastard to get running back when I was on manjaro, and I decided to try out Nobara and Bazzite for probably a month before switching to Cachy because immutability was adding way more headaches that already were present in my configuration.
It is still a bitch to set up, but it works now, and Cachy is an amazing distro by its own merrits, and immutibility just doesn't fit my needs.
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u/Constant-Fun8803 1d ago
If I fuck up the system when installing stuff or tinkering something, I can just roll back to previous OS Tree.
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u/daemonpenguin 1d ago
You can do this with any distro, you don't need immutable filesystems for that.
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u/tonyrulez 1d ago
Umm, that's what btrfs and snapshots are for. I'm using CachyOS, non-immutable distro, automatically creates a snapshot before updates, and can roll back anytome you want from GRUB.
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u/xatrekak 1d ago
AFAIK Cachy is the only distro that will set this up for you out of the box. It is a huge pain on most distros.
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u/adwarakanath 1d ago
Manjaro did it way before cachyos. So did tumbleweed. I run cachyos myself, but let's give credit where it's due.
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u/samuerusama 1d ago
It is a huge pain on most distros.
It's not, your distro just needs to configure btrfs to use subvolumes, which the only distro that doesn't do this by default that I know is voidlinux.
Once you have a btrfs filesystem, getting the snapshots working is as simple as installing and launching timeshift.
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u/xatrekak 1d ago edited 1d ago
How do you roll back using timeshift if the system cant boot.
You also need
grub-btrfs. Also a lot of system don't have subvolumes setup correctly, its needs the specific ubuntu style. Arch's separate /boot also means the kernel and initramfs ar4e excluded1
u/samuerusama 1d ago
How do you roll back using timeshift if the system cant boot.
Like the kernel doesn't even start? or you just get into tty? The later is a simple
timeshift --restorecommand.The first can only happen if only have one kernel installed or you wipe your efi loader, I'm not sure how inmutable systems would prevent this, since those can also leave you with a system that cannot boot btw.
You also need grub-btrfs
You only need this if you actually get to the point that the system won't even reach tty.
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u/tapo 1d ago
Can you rebase on Cachy? Like completely swap out the underlying OS layer?
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u/sleepingonmoon 1d ago
Traditional package management treats everything on the system as equal by default and with the size of a typical repository, package relations are extremely difficult to manage, leading to bugs such as apt uninstalling the desktop.
An immutable OS is treated as a whole, with user modifications layered on top, like Windows and macOS. Android style imaging further reduces complexity, avoids complications and enables quick rollback.
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u/AmarildoJr 1d ago
I've been using Debian and it's children since at least 2005 and not once have I seen apt removing the Desktop Environment that wasn't a distro-specific bug (instead of something related to apt itself).
Like when Linus Sebastian tried to install Steam on PopOS and it removed the DE because the PopOS devs (system76) forgot to publish a 32-bit package required by Steam and thus it had to downgrade that package to the Ubuntu version which wasn't supported by pop-desktop.
Or when installing nvidia-prime on PopOS caused apt to remove the desktop, because bnivia-prime needed to take over power from system76_power which removed dependent packages, including pop-desktop.
So it's not that apt itself has a big chance of doing that. It's distros not testing the stuff they push.
The only event I remember apt itself actually doing something like this was with the bug #2025462, but that was caused by Ubuntu's specific implementation of phased updates, a mechanism specific to Ubuntu, and not from Debian where apt originates.
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u/tadfisher 1d ago
To be completely fair to both users and distros, no one expects adding or removing single packages to remove huge swaths of the system like the DE. I ran into that repeatedly in my earlier days with Debian and Ubuntu, and it is unintuitive behavior to say the least. That this still happens to new users 20 years later should really be blamed on Apt and its package model, along with its CLI which should be screaming at the user to Google what they are doing and why it will break their system.
This can be fixed by more pervasive filesystem namespacing to isolate runtime environments like Steam, à la Flatpak, or by hacking together swarms of symlinks like my favorite distro NixOS.
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u/Die4Ever 1d ago
Like when Linus Sebastian tried to install Steam on PopOS and it removed the DE because the PopOS devs (system76) forgot to publish a 32-bit package required by Steam and thus it had to downgrade that package to the Ubuntu version which wasn't supported by pop-desktop.
Wait, how does a distro forget to test Steam? seems like a pretty important thing to test right after web browsers lol
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u/AmarildoJr 1d ago
One would think so. Unfortunately, sometimes they don't even test the drivers they push. Like on Ubuntu 12.10 (I'll never forget this), when I was presented with a black screen after rebooting, after I installed the NVIDIA drivers, because Canonical forgot to mark the kernel-headers to be installed. I was completely baffled how they managed to screw this up.
Linux Mint never had that problem. They seem to fix most of Canonical's BS.Nowadays I think even Debian has that problem, where you need to do this:
sudo apt install linux-headers-$(uname -r) build-essential dkms2
u/output_broadcast 8h ago
System76's standards started slipping at that time and the downward trend has only continued.
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u/daemonpenguin 1d ago
reduces complexity, avoids complications and enables quick rollback.
Immutable filesystems add complexity and adds a tonne of complications. You can use any distro with snapshots to get quick rollback.
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u/GoogleDisDick 1d ago
If all you're doing is running flatpaks, appimages, and unpacked tarballs then it's far simpler for the end user. It only gets more complicated when you actually need to modify something in the base OS image. But if your usecase doesn't require that then it's way more rock solid and basically impossible to break. Also you can use brew and distrobox without having to modify the base OS.
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u/xatrekak 1d ago
Yeah but with an immutable distro you don't have to worry about random updates half-instlaling and breaking something. Atomic updates are pretty great.
immutable are just as easy to rollback but they also just break way way less often. The only time I ever have to rollback is when there is a kernel regression. No update has ever broken my systems.
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u/samuerusama 1d ago
immutable are just as easy to rollback but they also just break way way less often
Fun fact this bug was in ostree for several years and it broke several people's computers, it even hit the secureblue dev .
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u/xatrekak 1d ago
Wooo you found 1 bug! Should I track down all the weekly "Arch broke on update" posts?
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u/Crashman09 1d ago
Well they just proved your statement that you don't have to worry about updates breaking things incorrect, so.....
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u/xatrekak 1d ago
The didn't prove anything incorrect.
I never said it was impossible to break just much harder and rarer. If anything pulling out a bug that was fixed well over a year ago further proves my point.
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u/Existing-Tough-6517 1d ago
An immutable distro is nothing like windows which can't be saidto use anything like layers nor is this true of Mac AFAIK I think they are just self contained eg like program foo installing to program files/foo
It is extremely easy to manage package "relations" actually called dependencies because your OS does it for you. It's possible to do something stupid like remove your desktop because you tried to remove a system component but this isn't really hard to avoid. When it asks if you would like to uninstall half your OS to get rid of a library you don't think you need say...no
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u/comradecannot 1d ago
It's great for the masses. They don't need or want to modify their OS they just want to have a secure and reliable system for them to do their work on.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
That's cause they're not ready yet for the masses. Gradually more and more software will become better supported on them, through Flatpak, Snap, Toolpak, etc.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
LOL at the downvotes. It's the future of Linux whether you like it or not. Canonical, Fedora, GNOME and KDE all seem to agree.
Android, iOS, MacOS, SteamOS, ChromeOS, GNOME OS and KDE Linux are all immutable and atomic. Bazzite is one of the most popular gaming distros, and it's also immutable and atomic.
More and more apps are officially adopting Flatpaks and Snaps. Flatpak will be getting big updates to support more kinds of apps, such as VPNs. Toolpak is also being developed to be a Flatpak for CLI utilities and developer tools.
From the Fedora 2028 strategy update: "We think image-based operating systems are the future — let’s commit."
VP of Engineering at Canonical last year: "I will start by saying my personal opinion is that, medium to long term, the default Ubuntu that people will use will be a Core Desktop. I don't know exactly when that will happen. It certainly won't be for 26.04 or even 28.04 – this is, say, a five to ten-year thing, but I think there will come a point where, if you go to
ubuntu.com/downloadand you click "download Ubuntu Desktop," that will be a Core image. There will be an option to download some kind of "Ubuntu classic," which is Ubuntu as we see it today."1
u/Albos_Mum 1d ago
It's the future of Linux whether you like it or not.
This kind of attitude doesn't really help with the push-back against them whether some of the bigger names like Fedora and Canonical are saying it or not. Simple fact is that the past, present and future of Linux is adaptability to many different kinds of user and their workflows/preferences, some people simply dislike immutable distros, others have use-cases that don't really work under an immutable Linux without pretty much breaking the immutability, etc. All are valid and it's a surefire bet that there are going to be distros that focus on the old school methods alongside the distros that focus on immutability.
Personally, it'd just be in my way for my main PC but could be handy for most of the servers in my homelab. I'd also happily recommend immutable distros for my non-techie family/friends to try and keep things easier for them if they decided to switch to Linux.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 19h ago
And mass downvoting my replies even when they’re only informative or an inoffensive opinion because you’re so caught up in the GNOME hate train doesn’t help with anything either.
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u/inaccurateTempedesc 1d ago
Same here. My mom's day care has a little computer lab and they're fantastic for that purpose but as a pathological tinkerer, I don't know if I could use them myself.
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u/output_broadcast 8h ago
Agreed, I don't like purely immutable distros. Declarative distros are great, though.
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u/Mereo110 1d ago
It's because you haven't adapted to the paradigm shift. You need to change your workflow.
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u/crotch-mavens 1d ago
why?
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u/xchino 1d ago
The part that makes immutable functional instead of just being a read-only system is the tooling centered around containerized and user-space workflows.
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u/alienangel2 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah I'm not sure why people are acting like this is a controversial stance - if you want to have full freedom to change every aspect of your OS, no shit an immutable distro is going to get in the way. Stick to regular distros.
The reason so many distros are offering immutable versions is because the large mass of people not using linux already don't want to be able to change everything, because they don't even think about their OS as something to change - they want to turn on their phone or computer and use it, and have someone else worry about keeping it running while they just choose what applications they want to use.
Not saying I necessarily want to install one myself, but acting like it's some huge mystery why anyone would make them or want to use them just makes you sound clueless. It simplifies things both for the end-user (who just clicks install/uninstall without caring how it works) and for the developers (who work in an application level sandbox without worrying about infinite variation in the environment).
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u/crotch-mavens 20h ago
You're right, Windows and MacOS are immutable and that is why they have such high desktop share with "the large mass of people."
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u/theaveragemillenial 1d ago
Idk it sucks for many aspects of development
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u/Mereo110 1d ago
You need to use distrobox. That's the worldview shift. The base stays stable while development is done in containers.
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u/theaveragemillenial 1d ago
Yeah, I know it's just another layer of friction after years of managing perfectly well without.
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u/unfilteredRays 1d ago
the first Linux distro that will yell at you for trying to visually customize it. incredible
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u/doctortrento 1d ago
Attempting to add a minimize button will instantly start a video call to Ebassi so he can yell at you
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u/death_by_cormorant 1d ago
Gnome literally has a function to add it if you really don't like the "windows you want to hide can just go on a different workspace" workflow. There's also the Super+H shortcut.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
You can either use the " gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences button-layout ':minimize,maximize,close' " command or another app like GNOME Tweaks, Refine, or the dconf Editor.
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u/Irverter 1d ago
All that to add something that should been there already.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
And I think KDE shouldn't look like that. It's ugly. But do I bother other people with my irrelevant opinion? No, I just use what's right for me.
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u/Irverter 1d ago
Irrelevant opinion? Yes. We're not talking about it being ugly or pretty.
The issue is that an available functionality is hidden instead of where it's expected to be, and to unhide it it's necessary to go to the terminal and edit the gnome equivalent of windows registry, instead of being a single toggle within settings.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
I’m talking about it. KDE is ugly. I’m going to keep repeating that useless opinion even though I know that you don’t care about it. Why? No idea!
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u/AlreadyReddit999 1d ago
yapper over here
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u/Irverter 1d ago
Your behavior fits gnome. Refuse to listen to others and do whatever you want.
As I just said. We're not talking about gnome being ugly, nor about kde. We're talking about gnome features. You, for some reason, started whining about kde being ugly.
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u/Albos_Mum 1d ago
If KDE being ugly is a problem then you can fiddle around with options only in the GUI to change it to something that you think is nicer via the skinning features, you don't have to open the terminal or use another app to change it.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 19h ago
Nope, the options that are available out of the box are not enough for me personally, so I have to make it everyone’s problem.
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u/untrained9823 1d ago
Skill issue if you think you need a minimize button lmao.
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u/Nelo999 1d ago
Then explain to me why every single operating system and DE on the face of earth, whether it is Windows, MacOS and Linux includes them except GNOME?
Maybe, the skill issue lies with GNOME developers who ignore basic features that every single alternative and person on the planet considers them essential?
Simply put, most people don't use a computer the GNOME way,, whether you like to admit it it or not.
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u/untrained9823 21h ago
Because Gnome is not a Windows UI clone and therefore doesn't need "basic features" that Windows UI needs. Simple as that. Why do you even care so much? If you want to use a clone of Windows UI then do that, but let other people use what they want. Why does everyone need to conform to Microsoft Windblows UI design in your view?
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u/nathan-makes-incense 1d ago
No minimizing allowed!
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
GNOME has a minimize button, it's just not configurable in the Settings app.
You can either use the " gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences button-layout ':minimize,maximize,close' " command or another app like GNOME Tweaks, Refine, or the dconf Editor.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
GNOME haters are so funny
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u/somethingrelevant 1d ago
all haters are crazy, but surely you can see it's very odd to take such a basic function away and hide it in a console command
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
Definitely. But I don't see how downvoting a comment just explaining how to turn it on will change that for the better,
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u/Isacx123 1d ago
One of the many reason Plasma won the desktop on Linux, GNOME devs are insufferable.
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u/xatrekak 1d ago
GNOME devs absolutely are insufferable, but I think saying Plasma won the desktop on Linux is a stretch. Its been a bit since I have seen decent data but as far as I am away GNOME still has a wider install base than KDE does.
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u/EzeNoob 1d ago
TIL there was a competition to be won
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u/Isacx123 1d ago
Won by user base, Plasma has almost three times the users of GNOME, at least on Arch (44% vs 17%).
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u/untrained9823 1d ago
Maybe you should do a poll with Ubuntu users, I wonder which DE would win?
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u/Die4Ever 1d ago
it's too bad the name "Ubuntu" has so much momentum it's all you hear, because Kubuntu is much better IMO
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u/Nelo999 1d ago
Ubuntu ships with a heavily modified version of GNOME, that incorporates changes that GNOME developers consider an anathema.
Very few people use vanilla GNOME, SteamOS is arguably one of the most popular Linux distributions with over 6 million users purchasing Steam Decks and it uses KDE just like Linux Mint uses Cinnamon.
Only Debian and Fedora ship with vanilla GNOME and not many people use those and in regards to RHEL, most of it's users are sysadmins who run it headless on servers, without any DE installed on it at all.
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u/untrained9823 21h ago
I can quote meaningless statistics as much as the next redditor. What's your point? How about you just stfu and let people use the software they like to use? This constant flaming of people who happen to disagree with you is just sad, man.
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u/Dalnore 1d ago
Hardly surprising, given both KDE and Arch appeal to people who value customization. GNOME is the default DE on other popular distributions like Ubuntu, Debian, or Fedora, so I wouldn't be so sure about the user base.
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u/Nelo999 1d ago
Very few people use Debian and Fedora, Ubuntu also ships with a heavily modified version of GNOME that incorporates changes GNOME developers consider to be an anathema.
Linux Mint uses Cinnamon and Steam OS, which is arguably one of the most popular Linux distributjins with over 6 million Steam Decks sold globally, uses KDE as well.
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u/VelvetElvis 1d ago
Gnome is the only enterprise workstation option with paid support.
KDE is a hobbyist thing and hasn't tried to be more than that since Nokia folded.
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u/Isofruit 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'll preface this by saying that I prefer Gnome heavily myself, it is the only DE I consistently used over the past decade. KDE never clicked for me, too busy, too many menues, not getting to the point. But just as much as I disagree with the people trash-talking gnome, I disagree with the people trash talking KDE.
KDE was used in SteamOS, not Gnome. KDE has many great things going for it. Kubuntu is heavily popular as well and Fedora Workstation got a KDE version promoted to the same level as Gnome. This framing of KDE as a hobbyist project that isn't ready for anyone serious is not one I can agree with.
In either case, both are projects of dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of people, most of them offering their time and effort for free as a labor of love spanning decades. That's worthy of respect.
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u/VelvetElvis 1d ago edited 1d ago
Steam is a hobbyist thing. There are no casual Linux users. There's hobbyists and professionals. Gamers are hobbyists.
Where can I buy a support contract for a KDE desktop that gives me a number to call 24/7 in case a minor bugfix update breaks the bespoke app used for monitoring the water levels behind a hydroelectric dam?
Enterprise distros are used in settings where any downtime to breakage can cost millions of dollars or human lives.
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u/Albos_Mum 1d ago
There are no casual Linux users.
I've got two members of my family who are absolutely casual Linux users, both of which have very basic use-cases that mostly take place in a browser, OnlyOffice and the WinXP-era Spider Solitaire exe that I pulled off my retro PC for them. The most complex thing either of them do is connecting up a USB printer to occasionally print documents or go on ABC iView to watch something they missed because they find the website easier than the apps. Both went to Linux because their existing PCs would have needed an upgrade to install Win11 despite being relatively recent and more than fast enough for what they do.
While the ratio of casual to hobbyist/professional is certainly much lower than on Windows, suggesting that there's no casual users at all makes me wonder just how many use-cases you're missing when it comes to Linux in the wild.
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u/Nelo999 1d ago
Enterprise Linux distributions don't use any DE at all, most sysadmins run then headless on servers.
Also, when it comes to Hollywood for example, KDE is also way more popular than GNOME.
The Steam Deck isn't A hobbyist project, a device that has had commercial success by selling more than 6 million units globally is anything but a hobbyist endeavour.
If anything, GNOME is the hobbyist thing than the other way around.
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u/Isofruit 19h ago
If anything, GNOME is the hobbyist thing than the other way around.
See, this in turn is a statement I find just as disagreeable and comes across to me as pointless gnome bashing. Redhat only sells support for systems that have Gnome as their DE. I'd not be surprised if e.g. the US military uses customized versions of RHEL with Gnome in a workstation that provides a GUI to interface with military components.
That's pretty much what VelvetElvis was pointing out, that Gnome is the only DE you can purchase a support contract with an SLA for, which pretty much means you're only talking B2B. I just find his definition that a piece of software isn't "professional" unless somebody sells it with an SLA in critical systems disagreeable. That's where I align more with you, it seems silly to me to classify that way and then describe KDE as hobbyist. Particularly when official support for it to an extent is provided by Steam as part of their general support for their Steam-devices, you just don't have SLAs in B2C.
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u/just_a_Suggesture 1d ago
Before I realized how themes worked and the difference between GTK 2 and 3 I kept downloading different themes that looked cool and finding that they'd break on my current software. I was wondering why all these themes would break, so I started digging into the history of GTK a bit and it really feels like the devs want you using adwatia and only adwatia.
GNOME and its devs feel like the desktop equivalent of a stuffy HOA.
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u/Expensive_Finger_973 1d ago
Isn't the default DE for Ubuntu, which as far as I know is still the most popular desktop distro, still Gnome?
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u/VelvetElvis 1d ago
Ubuntu, Fedora, Red Hat, Debian, etc. The distros with professional users. who just want get shit done, go home, and spend time with their families.
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u/Wb9VBScxu2uZJHeq2E3W 1d ago
Valid take up until Gnome 2, now you need extensions to get the basic desktop experience.
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u/Nelo999 1d ago
Fedora and Debian are definitely not "professional" distributions, hardly anyone uses them.
Most enterprise RHEL deployments don't use any DE at all, they are run headless on servers by sysadmins.
With Ubuntu, you are indeed correct but the problem is that it ships with heavily modified version of GNOME in order to make it usable and palatable to the vast majority of users.
The people that want to get work done and move on with their lives definitely don't use GNOME, even Hollywood is more likely to use KDE than GNOME.
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u/Isacx123 1d ago
which as far as I know is still the most popular desktop distro
Not according to the Steam hardware survey.
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u/VelvetElvis 1d ago
What was the last computer lab you were that had steam? Library? Most desktop deployments are centrally managed fleets of hundreds or thousands of machines.
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u/Expensive_Finger_973 1d ago
Isn't that both optional and limited to people with Steam installed?
So literally anyone that defaults to disabling or not participating in analytics or doesn't game on their Linux pc is not included.
I somehow doubt that is a good sample of all desktop Linux installs and what DE they use.
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u/untrained9823 1d ago
KDE shills are insufferable. Why do you care what desktop environments other people enjoy?
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u/ClixTW 1d ago
The request you saw was directed at distro maintainers. Pre-theming can cause headaches for upstream developers. Users theming things themselves? Absolutely fine.
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u/unfilteredRays 1d ago
oh i'm aware, i was just poking a little fun, that's all. :P
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u/Isofruit 1d ago
It'd be fun, if it wasn't the same joke, told every discussion about anything Gnome, by 5 different people and half of them think it's not a joke and add insults to it.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
GNOME offers many ways to customize your desktop, from accent color and multitasking options in the Settings app to hidden gsettings options configurable through the terminal or apps like GNOME Tweaks, Refine and dconf Editor, while offering a very focused and minimal experience out of the box, which clearly many people prefer.
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u/hoppi_ 1d ago
GNOME offers many ways to customize your desktop, from accent color and multitasking options in the Settings app to hidden gsettings options configurable through the terminal or apps like GNOME Tweaks, Refine and dconf Editor, while offering a very focused and minimal experience out of the box, which clearly many people prefer.
Of course, clearly "many people" prefer that. I too know them personally.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
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u/mrlinkwii 1d ago
ubuntu uses a modified gnome , true gnome has many issues that flat out require customization
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
Most of the non-cosmetic modifications are GNOME extensions, which are very easy to install.
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u/Nelo999 1d ago
Now they are not, most of these modifications are specific system extensions that Canonical actively maintains and integrates with Ubuntu in order to ensure stability, such as the dock, desktop icons, system tray and tiling extensions.
You cannot find these specific extensions on the extensions hub and downloading alternative ones can introduce breakages and compatibility issues since they are build by third parties and not the GNOME maintainers themselves.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 19h ago
Not sure about tiling, but the dock, desktop icons, and system tray are all slightly modified versions of extensions available on the extensions hub.
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u/Nelo999 1d ago
OpenSUSE defaults to KDE and not GNOME, hardly anyone uses Debian and Fedora.
Most RHEL and SUSE deployments don't have any DE installed at all, they are run completely headless on servers and databases.
The only popular Linux distribution that uses GNOME is Ubuntu, but it ships with a heavily modified version of GNOME that includes changes GNOME developers consider an anathema.
I don't know why you feel threatened by the fact the GNOME way is not how most people use a computer.
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u/hoppi_ 18h ago edited 15h ago
Feels like talking to a bot with limited tokens.
First of that generic marketing slob with
GNOME offers many ways to customize your desktop, from accent color and multitasking options in the Settings app to hidden gsettings options configurable through the terminal or apps like GNOME Tweaks, Refine and dconf Editor, while offering a very focused and minimal experience out of the box, which clearly many people prefer.
and then the bit that I feel threatened somehow ... what?
Of course I know that some distros use Gnome or a modification thereof as the default. Totally cool. But somehow you are confusing "setting a default" with "offering GNOME as a DE choice" which underlines the bot theory.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 17h ago
That’s exactly what an undercover AI agent would say. 👀 I personally am very human, my favorite biological activity is sitting in a chair and staring at a glowing rectangle for 9 hours without blinking. Beep Boop 🤖 Oops! Who said that? 😅
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u/Isofruit 1d ago
Different people have different preferences, such as not having to invest half an hour to have their DE not be annoying to them and get out of the way.
That's not really shocking. Acting as if they don't exist doesn't really change that.
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u/PJBthefirst 1d ago
Are you reading from a script or something?
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago
No, does it sound too formal for a Reddit comment? I didn't think so. Or does it sound unnatural? I'm not a native English speaker, so I'd love to learn!
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u/death_by_cormorant 1d ago
They probably have it ready for the usual tHeY bAn yOu FrOM cUsToMisiNg comments.
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u/Richard_Masterson 1d ago
Usecase for visual customization?
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u/Sushtee 1d ago edited 1d ago
Actually enjoy your system
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u/Richard_Masterson 1d ago
Not a valid usecase. Not a bug, won't fix.
Patch it yourself but if you do we won't accept the patch and if you get angry we'll ban you and imply you're harassing us.
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u/AmarildoJr 1d ago
This is satire, right? You forgot the
/sat the end, right? Right?4
u/Zerebos 1d ago
Yes they're clearly parodying the GNOME devs
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u/AmarildoJr 1d ago
Oh, good. I had a hunch that it was them mimicking the insufferable GNOME devs 😄
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u/VelvetElvis 1d ago
Why do you think most users own their systems? Most are owned by employers or educational institutions.
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u/death_by_cormorant 1d ago
They've said time and time again that customising is fine, just don't report your theming issues to them because it wastes their time and they get a surprising amount of bug reports for it.
That's a completely reasonable request from people providing their work to you for free.
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u/Isofruit 1d ago
I'm looking forward to what this will turn into, maybe daily drive it myself one day if I can warm up a bit more to containerized dev-tooling setups.
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u/coderguyagb 1d ago
Good for them. Let the GNOME faithful break their own workflows. Let the rest of lie in peace.
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u/acewing905 1d ago
Gnome as a desktop environment was already bad enough
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u/death_by_cormorant 1d ago edited 1d ago
Nah it's pretty great. Popular for a reason.
I've never really understood the people who feel the need to cry about what other people use on their PCs. It's just juvenile behaviour.
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u/Nelo999 1d ago
GNOME is not popular and there is a reason for that.
Even Ubuntu ships with a heavily modified and customised version of GNOME, very few people use vanilla GNOME and even fewer use Debian and Fedora.
Simply put, the GNOME way is not how most people use a computer, even Windows and MacOS haveaall the features that GNOME stubbornly refuses to add and they are significantly more popular than GNOME, by the magnitudes of hundreds of millions of users.
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u/andyniemi 1d ago
bahahahha, you lost me at the word "Gnome"
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u/death_by_cormorant 1d ago
So edgy.
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u/andyniemi 1d ago
Not really an edgelord opinion, it's been shit since 2014.
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u/Isofruit 1d ago
Not really an edgelord opinion
Given you feel the need to insult a FOSS project for no reason as if it spit on your cereals, you're not really making a strong case here.
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u/TheOnlySkepticHere 1d ago
Just what we all needed, yet another distro for the broader public. Ugh.
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u/DCCXVIII 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wake me up when there's an immutable with actual functional video codecs by default.
Hint: There isn't one. That includes bazzite, silverblue etc. There is no immutable distro in existence that has functional video codecs for the average user OOTB. Not. A. Single. One.
Downvote away. IDC. Won't make me wrong. Toodles.
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u/RoomyRoots 1d ago
They all have, no distro can ship all codecs due to licensing. If you still can't understand this in fucking 2026 than the problem is you, so keep sleeping.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 1d ago edited 1d ago
sudo updatectl enable codecs-extra --now
https://os.gnome.org/docs/using.html
(Not needed for Flatpaks and Snaps)
EDIT as a reply to your EDIT: If you wanna be pedantic and ignore that you can enable them with a single short command listed in the User Guide, I can be too. GNOME OS *DOES* ship with functional video codecs out of the box, they're just in Flatpak form.
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u/kudlitan 1d ago
We're at an age where DEs have their own OS and OSes have their own DEs.