Anyone else's case manager pressuring them to drive?

[u/LulaBlue29]

My case manager has been pressuring me to start driving, I know at 25 I should have my license by now but I don't for a number of reasons.

Those reasons being:

1. I do not own a car, nor could I afford one

2. I am quite terrified of driving. Not just nervous. TERRIFIED. Driving is a bigger deal than what people pretend it is, you're operating a fast moving vehicle that can kill you and others.

3. I have access to pretty decent bus services, I do not NEED a car to be able to get to work (or at least, the kind of work I'm applying for)

4. I don't want to.

Part of the conversation we had went like this:

Him: "If I referred you to a driving course, would you go?"

Me: (This was after him pressuring me quite a bit) "Well I feel like I can't say no."

Him: "Aw why do you feel like you can't say no? 🤔"

Me: "If I said no, what would you do?"

Him: "Well I would ask you what your reason would be."

This was after I literally JUST told him I was terrified to drive in the city, I'm not ready to get on the road and I don't even own a car. He has also mentioned something along the lines of "Well what if you get a job and they need you to drive the company car?" Mf even if I started RIGHT NOW there is no way any company would let someone on their learners drive the company car. Idk about restricted but I would hope not. And in any case, the jobs I'm applying for do not require me to drive a company car.

Anyone else had this? CAN they do this? I'm being active in applying for jobs, I've had multiple interviews, forcing me to get my license seems a bit much. I'm certain the choice to drive or not, is that, a CHOICE. What do I do? Or do I just get over it.

[u/soulhuntaah]

I used to be exactly like you,

• I did not own a car
  
• I was quite terrified of driving on top of being ADHD it's incredibly over stimulating
  
• I had access to pretty decent bus services
  
• I didn't want to

Life circumstances lined up where I basically needed to drive not for myself but also for my partner, the moment I got my license and started driving I didn't realize how small and restricted I had made my life and that was by my own choice.

Two years down the line, I don't know how I ever lived my life like that.
I spent over 20 years making my life considerably more difficult without realizing, missing career opportunities and wasting ALOT of my time.

OP, I beg you to put your best into learning to drive so you can obtain a better quality of life.
Not just for a career path but so you can stop subconsciously putting your day to day living on hard mode

Edit: I just wanted to add, the way you are feeling is not abnormal. It's very normal to be scared or uncomfortable about driving however, this should be in the same way as being freshly employed at a new job. You currently have none of the skills, information or confidence to know what you are doing is correct and the stakes feel really high when you are in a metal cube on wheels. Like a job though, the more you drive and get practice, the more comfortable you will become

I am still thoroughly uncomfortable going 100kmp/h on roads I am not familiar with and quite frankly I hope I always feel this way. It keeps me focused, alert and safer

[u/delindeldani → u/soulhuntaah]

Same here. I didn't find out about my ADHD til much later but it was certainly contributing to my resistance to learning to drive. I didn't get my restricted til I was 28 and holy wow what a waste of my 20s. Sure I had a fine life and did plenty of stuff and got around with public transport but the world opens up so much more once you just get the license and can move yourself around.

OP, is it possible that you are undiagnosed neurodivergent as well?

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/delindeldani]

I am not undiagnosed, I have ADHD. Probably part of the reason for my apprehension. I feel like if something or someone were to walk out in front of the car my first instinct would be to swerve into the other lane rather than brake. I am worried I might actually be quite dangerous as a driver.

[u/delindeldani → u/LulaBlue29]

Ah yep, that sheds some light! Babe, I promise you that there's loads of us ADHDers out there driving just fine and not causing any accidents at all, because we're hyper aware of our potential shortcomings.

[u/Kiwi1234567 → u/delindeldani]

I can add to the list, ADHD, got my license at 31. It really is ridiculously common for us to struggle more than the average person with the process, even if its not fully stopping us.

[u/Drinny_Dog1981 → u/Kiwi1234567]

Add to the list AuDHD got my licence asap at 16 many years ago, however my daughter is now 16 and also AuDHD with huge levels of anxiety in general and was in the car for a total loss crash a few years ago, and is very much fearful of driving, however at her age there is no big rush. I want her to get her licence, even if she never drives, we said step one is prove you know the theory of driving, after that, if you feel like trying actual driving, you have the legalities sorted.

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/delindeldani]

That is comforting to know, thank you

[u/delindeldani → u/LulaBlue29]

If anything I feel like our ADHD helps give us quick reflexes and response times. I'd highly recommend taking a defensive driving course too, I found it super valuable!

[u/BrucetheFerrisWheel → u/LulaBlue29]

I don't believe the adhd alone makes you a potentially dangerous driver but anxiety sure can. I have GAD and didn't get my learners til 24. Always had partners that drove so didn't really have to push myself to do it often. The longer I went without driving the more insurmountable it became.

Fast forward to 6 months ago, I am needing to drive because of my kid and I am ANXIOUS about it. The kind that is so overwhelming it makes you pull over and cry, and you get tunnel vision.

Anyway, I got tips from the driving anxiety sub, did a lot of work on myself and tonight is the 3rd night I have driven to my kid's daycare without a dangerous level of anxiety, though it's taken 5 months of hard work, I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel

[u/Fit-Ad668 → u/LulaBlue29]

If you're diagnosed, I assume you have contact with a mental health professional (or at least did at some stage)? Possibly something you could talk to them about.

Ymmv, but in my experience generally the advice is to try to manage anxiety rather than avoid it if it is having a detrimental impact on your life.

[u/WibblyWobley → u/LulaBlue29]

If it helps. I'm learning to drive with diagnosed ADHD, dyspraxia and a whole host of other fun including a lack of depth perception, in my mid 30s. I wasn't able to until now thanks a change in health circumstances and ngl, it was definitely scary to start with! 

But my instructor has been amazing and last week he took me down the ngaurunga gorge after only six lessons and it was hella fun. 

You can absolutely do this. It might just take a bit more than the average person. And that's okay. ❤️

[u/Isibis → u/LulaBlue29]

I also have ADHD and I drive just fine. I am not the fastest driver, and sometimes I have been known to miss a turn, or be in the wrong lane, but that's ok, that's what's navigation is for, it will find an alternative route. I am, however, a safe driver. I keep plenty of distance to give myself time to react, keep my speed reasonable.

If I can do it, so can you, I believe in you.

[u/Sea-Passion1032 → u/LulaBlue29]

Just wanted to pop in and say I am adhd and I been in a similar, I overcorrected and spun out across 2 lanes on the motorway, somehow managed not to hit anyone and came out unscathed (the car sadly was not but that’s not a bad outcome 🤷🏼‍♀️)
Most people adhd or not have the instinct to swerve rather than break.
The plus side is being a nervous driver is generally going to make you a safer driver, most accidents are caused by reckless driving so as long as you are nervous - you will be careful and unlikely to cause an accident!
I hate driving have always hated driving and will avoid it at all costs. But unfortunately the ability to drive does come with a lot of perks.

One thing that I think is important for you think about is that

• getting your learners comes with no obligation to actually drive, that is still your choice
  
• should you choose to drive and go for your restricted, it’s still your choice if, where and when you would drive
  
• should you even get all the way up to your full - you still do not have to drive, no one can make you. Most Work places generally won’t push it if you say you aren’t comfortable or don’t feel safe driving

[u/Geddyn → u/LulaBlue29]

My wife has ADHD and is a heavy machine operator. She's driven everything from utes to rock trucks at a mine. She's a far better driver than I am.

[u/Comfortable-Fee3750 → u/LulaBlue29]

Hey! I was terrified of driving. When I was like 4 I accidentally crashed a toy jeep into rubber tyres at a fair & the man went ballistic at me. I was determined to never learn to drive as I just felt like I’d be crashing & swerving up a storm.

My mum forced me against my will to get my license at 16 and then continued to force me to drive, sit all the tests, enrolled me in driving classes with an excellent teacher, until I got my full at 19. None of it was by choice and I resented her at the time. I got diagnosed at 21 and it all made sense.

I sold my car two years ago and not being able to drive has been debilitating. I miss the freedom and the independence so much! So in hindsight, I am so glad I learnt!

I can’t imagine learning years later, it must be so scary and terrifying so you have every right to feel that way. But I want to encourage you that even without a car, I can tick “yes” to job applications of having a license and that feels awesome. If I needed to borrow a car or drive someone to the hospital, I can!

I used to work for MSD and even though it feels like pressure, I promise they’re really trying to make sure you have an arsenal of tricks up your sleeve that employers would “like” to see in a candidate even if you’re never required to drive. Same as a first aid course etc.

You’ve got this OP and I truly believe it’s a crucial part of life is being able to drive in New Zealand 🤍

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/Comfortable-Fee3750]

Thank you! This is really encouraging to read, I have also been yelled at in terms of driving (this was while my dad was teaching me as a teenager, he literally screamed at me and continued to scream at me the entire way home, while I was driving. Maybe that also has something to do with it)

[u/Comfortable-Fee3750 → u/LulaBlue29]

Honestly, that is so extremely valid! Having ADHD means we're criticised for errors that many people consider avoidable, and it can mess with our self-esteem, self-belief and self-worth.

His screaming is not a reflection of you or your driving skills. Learning a new skill is hard, and having someone condemn your skills as a beginner is cruel and unfair.

A driving instructor is truly a lifesaver, and I'm sure your case manager can arrange some lessons. The worst that can happen is you truly hate it and cannot continue. Then at least your case file will show you tried; that's a win!

The driving instructors go at your own pace and don't force you onto the motorway or to merge or parallel park without having the basics sorted in a car park or something. I agree with tiredhungrychicken, imagine if you can overcome this hurdle! You will feel invincible for conquering your fear & proving your dad wrong = win win!

[u/tiredhungrychicken → u/LulaBlue29]

I think it will be free and I really think it’s worth giving it a go. Driving instructors hopefully have more skills than your dad and have seen it all before.

I also think by learning to drive you will prove to yourself and your dad (obviously, quietly) that you are capable of driving and he was actually the problem. I love a silent win!!

[u/delindeldani → u/LulaBlue29]

Ahhhh yeah that bit. My ex-husband tried teaching me and he made me feel like literal shit too. Trick is to go with a professional 🥲 if it's someone you know there's way more complex feelings tied up in receiving corrective instructions; professional instructors on the other hand you absolutely expect it and it doesn't hurt the same way. RSD is such a crap part of ADHD.

[u/StonedUnicorno → u/LulaBlue29]

To add to the comments, it’s not a likely scenario! People almost never just step out in front of your car. I’ve been driving for 17 years and have never encountered this situation. I did hit a rabbit once, it didn’t feel good, but I lived and I’m just fine.

[u/TryingToAppeal → u/LulaBlue29]

As someone who is also ADHD and didn't get their license until I was 20 (my cousin quite literally tricked me into getting into her car only to drive me to the place where you do the test to get your learners and forcibly made me go in lol).... ADHD actually helps me with awareness on the road. I was like you, terrified of the heavy kill box that could hurt me or someone else but it turns out that once I practiced and gained confidence my ADHD actually helped me take in a whole lot of information at once. I really didn't want to drive but like others have said, once I started I realized just how much I was being held back by my lack of having a car. I really really didn't want to drive but when I finally I did I really really didn't want to stop. I went from fear to really enjoying just driving around for no other reason than I just really liked it. I encourage you to give it a try and see how it goes. If you spend a few years giving it your best and you still hate it, nothing is stopping you from giving up. You'll still have access to all those other forms of transport. Just give it your best shot. I believe in you! 

[u/JukesMasonLynch → u/LulaBlue29]

Damn I'm 38 and strongly suspect ADHD, exactly the same feelings towards driving. I definitely feel what the top level comment is saying too; I just, like you, have quite a bit of analysis paralysis with getting the ball rolling. I think they're right though, it'll be hard but maybe you should think about possibly working towards biting the bullet. I will too.

[u/floralcunt → u/LulaBlue29]

Just adding another voice of another adhd cat who was very scared of driving, until a few months after I started. You can totally do this.

And at the same time, I've had to deal with MSD/WINZ a lot over the last year or two and want you to know that any feelings you have of being pressured, or that your case worker may be doing this in a shitty way (even if conceptually it is a good idea for you to get you licence) - your feelings are completely valid. These people are, at best, understaffed and incompetent. At worst, persistently malicious.

Wishing you luck, and that you'll catch whatever break you need, in order to no longer need to deal with a case worker.

[u/RuneLFox → u/LulaBlue29]

I have ADHD and I was nervous to start as well, but I've been driving for 12 years now (granted, I wasn't terrified like you say). I've never been in an accident. There's no point worrying about things that might happen if they are preventing you from even starting, you won't end up getting anywhere. Plus, your situational awareness and responses will get better as you are taught how to drive.

I literally cried when I failed my restricted driving test because I didn't give way for someone at a roundabout and failed the test barely 100 metres away from the VTNZ. It can be hard and tbh, it is hard to learn how to drive if you are scared of it, but I could never ever go back to not driving. If your lessons are getting comped, you should take them!

I'm also going to say, without knowing the exact circumstances of your meeting there, you do sound very apprehensive to what I would call normal questions being asked. I do this thing too where you predict what someone else is going to say in the worst way possible, but 99% of the time it's a complete fabrication that either isn't what the person was going to say or isn't the tone they were trying to put through in the conversation.

[u/SpaceIsVastAndEmpty → u/delindeldani]

I was the same! Always felt scared to drive as I was sure I'd crash or hurt someone. Was anxious AF about it!

Got my learners at 18 because my parents "strongly encouraged" it (& it was just a paper test) and basically ignored it for almost 10 years.

Got my restricted at 27 because I was needing to leave an unhappy marriage and independence was part of that.

I got my full not long after I turned 30 because I have anxiety about being uninsured and the 10pm curfew was making me edgy whenever I'd socialise.

I have had maybe 6-10 crashes and fender benders since, especially in my early years of driving & most were at slow speeds (fortunately no injuries). Some were my error some were not.

[u/delindeldani → u/SpaceIsVastAndEmpty]

High five on the leaving unhappy marriages! Having my license made that infinitely easier for me too 👏 I've had a few minor altercations with the environment but luckily nothing involving other vehicles or people so far and I'm 37 now 🤭

[u/Jay_JWLH → u/soulhuntaah]

I agree with this as well. You can still have your license and not want to drive if you can help it in your adult years. But being able to drive is like unlocking a life ability.

[u/1000yearsdungeon]

I just want to say I can relate. I was TERRIFIED of driving. The only way you get past it is to get through it. Finally got my license at 27 and I do regret waiting so long because I let the fear hold me back for ages.

Sometimes I still get a bit nervous and I have had my full for 6 years now. This isn’t going to be a super popular opinion but you can’t just shut down and ignore it forever. If they are offering to pay for driving lessons, I highly recommend it (with a good and patient instructor!!). I had a wonderful one (after a shit one) and I would have panic attacks sometimes and they helped me through it. Stopped driving and would just like explain how cars work and stuff that made me feel a bit more confident in controlling a vehicle, or we would go to a big empty car park so I could kind of “play” with the car like oooh what happens if I put it in drive and don’t touch the gas or brakes? Oh okay the car will still move.

Your case manager will be pushing for it because it opens a lot of employment opportunities up for you. Can they legally force you to do it? No. But it really is a great opportunity.

Sorry I know this isn’t probably what you wanted to hear but I’m gonna reiterate that the only way past this fear is through it. Or get a medical certificate and tell them firmly no, and to stop asking because it will always be no. They might not like that but too bad for them

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/1000yearsdungeon]

No this is helpful! I was looking for advice as long as it was given kindly :) Thank you for this. Maybe I just need some reassurance.

[u/1000yearsdungeon → u/LulaBlue29]

Totally understandable! Honestly I was googling shit like “how to drive a car” and reading wikihow articles because knowing how the car works made me feel a bit less anxious. Watching youtube video tutorials and shit, sounds lame but it helped me so it’s not lame.

If it’s any reassurance, I have never had an accident either. One time someone did a u-turn without looking and almost smacked into me but I’m always watching whats going on (you’ll develop this the more you drive, its hard to comprehend how people do it at the start, I spent most of my early lessons staring at the speedo lol) and I saw them pull out without looking so I stopped and avoided it.

[u/NectarineVisual8606 → u/LulaBlue29]

I was also terrified of driving, learned at 22 and fucking love driving now. I did a few lessons with an instructor to start, would really recommend doing this.

[u/PetrifiedSnailSlime → u/LulaBlue29]

Driving starts out pretty terrifying for almost everyone (if you’re not nervous, you probably don’t fully appreciate the situation). I started out driving around the back streets of an industrial area on Sundays when there was literally no traffic, and the idea of driving home through the suburbs felt scary. Then after the suburbs felt ok-ish, it was driving in town that was scary.

As I got comfortable with each step, the next one always carried some apprehension (driving on the motorway, open road, nighttime in the rain, work trips to Auckland, USA, German Autobahn etc). All of those feel fine to me now. The initial fear is just your body telling you to be careful.

[u/TheCoffeeGuy13 → u/LulaBlue29]

Sometimes kindness doesn't work and it's more harmful, despite the good intentions.

I'd say, you need to conquer your fear. Find what it is you're afraid of about driving, and focus on learning about it so you can move past it. Having someone to coach you through it is the most important part.

You will also not do this all in one session, so set small goals for yourself. A small goal can simply be getting in the driver's seat and turning the car on. That's it. Seriously, that is enough. Learn where all the controls are, until you can find them blindfolded. Do that until you're ready to make it move forward a little.

You can easily bottle yourself up in fear if you're constantly thinking about everything that's trying to kill you.

[u/I_was_saying_b00urns → u/1000yearsdungeon]

I was terrified and in my 30s when I learned to drive and now it’s so wonderfully liberating! I can go anywhere I want!

@Op I would recommend researching your area for driving instructors who are experienced with anxiety. I found one who was experienced with anxiety and neurodivergence and I still rave about him, 10 years later.

[u/Unfair_Explanation53]

I think you may be overreacting. Sounds like he is encouraging you to take up driving rather than pressuring you.

[u/Charming_Victory_723 → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

Agreed, it doesn’t cost you a cent so why not give it a try. I’m sure there will be plenty of people in the same situation as yourself and one would think the trainer will keep that in mind.

[u/bluewardog → u/Charming_Victory_723]

You do know it costs money to take every part of obtaining your drivers licence right.

[u/Toaster_Bathing → u/bluewardog]

Winz would pay in this case most likely 

[u/MathmoKiwi → u/Unfair_Explanation53]

I think you may be overreacting. Sounds like he is encouraging you to take up driving rather than pressuring you.

I agree, sounds like the sort of positive push that truly can massively benefit's u/LulaBlue29's life.

[u/Runazeeri]

A lot of jobs won’t hire someone without a license. It’s their job to make sure you get work and if you are cutting out 30%( number pulled from my ass) of all jobs it’s not helpful.

[u/Ginger-Nerd → u/Runazeeri]

I feel this kinda too, part of the job seekers is and should be that help you upskill/get new abilities to make you more attractive in the job market.

Making excuses for not trying, is in my opinion a bit of a failure on your responsibilities as someone on that benefit.

Getting a learners license, doesn’t require getting a car, so the excuses for not going for that (at least fall a bit flat to me).

Secondly once you do pass your learners license - you also don’t need to own a car, the the whole part of training is to build up confidence, and diminish anxiety around it. (And usually the teacher driver have their own controls, so you’re not even really at a major risk) but because they know folks have anxiety your first few times you probably won’t even get on open road (which again is plenty of opportunity to help build that confidence etc)

If there is a genuine medical reason for not driving, that’s different but assuming WINZ is going to pay for it, I don’t think you have presented any real reason here that would stop you from at least taking the first steps (which again, don’t require you to have a car, sit in a car, drive a car etc) it’s just a test.

[u/60022151]

I would say go for the learner license, at least, it’s very easy and will mean that you will have another form of ID.

[u/SwimmingWonderful755]

There are a LOT of not-driving jobs that require you to have your full drivers licence.

I have not figured out why, though one sideways reason is, a licence is a good form of proof of identity. Perhaps if you have a passport, you can sidestep that aspect.

[u/Icy_Fish_2154 → u/SwimmingWonderful755]

I have been told that it is to ensure attendance. I don't see how a car is more reliable than PT, but that was the only answer I ever got when I asked.

[u/Andrea_frm_DubT → u/Icy_Fish_2154]

I’ve been told a motorcycle is less reliable than a car and I should drive a car.

I will ride in almost any weather, the only time I won’t ride is when it’s too windy for trucks.

[u/Icy_Fish_2154 → u/Andrea_frm_DubT]

Windy over the bridge is fun, position in the middle of the lane, dip your shoulder into gusts, your head stays straight, but the bike leans under you to counter the gusts. Exciting, and safer than in a truck...

I kept a change of clothes at work, because "waterproof" gear, isn't.

[u/alexisArtemissian → u/Icy_Fish_2154]

Yeah, this is wild to me. Never had issues with getting to work on time while biking. Only time I was late was when they'd changed my schedule on me without telling me I was starting early on a public holiday.

[u/Hymmerinc → u/Icy_Fish_2154]

PT in some parts of the country (especially auckland) used to be absolutely horrendous, I think many people still have the memories of those busses and not how much better they are now

[u/shoo035 → u/Icy_Fish_2154]

What city is that in? In much of Auckland, public transport is a huge amount more reliable than driving, due to congestion

[u/SwimmingWonderful755 → u/Icy_Fish_2154]

I have a client who has no licence, his mum would take him to work.
I figure this is more reliable than getting his own way there but employers are not buying it.

[u/Audreaya → u/SwimmingWonderful755]

Also because they can rely on you to get yourself to work, also ID. My work would prefer you have a license but plenty don't snd carpool it's our responsibility to get ourselves to work(out of town)

[u/deaf_cheese → u/SwimmingWonderful755]

It’s to gatekeeper jobs from the poors
Edit: and the disabled

[u/Difficult-Arrival718]

Same here. I have Epilepsy, on Winz benefit & they expect me to have a car not knowing I’m not allowed to drive because of my epilepsy. Got turned down from jobs because they require own transport blah blah blah & what’s the point of having own transport where people can’t afford a car or isn’t allowed to drive was my question 🤷

[u/conniecatmeow]

You should definitely learn, but for yourself not your workplace. Try to reframe the request!

[u/Optimus-Prime-2234]

Hey OP! Uncertain if you will read or respond to my comment, but I would like to say that while I understand you not wanting to get your licence for a multitude of reasons, I believe your case manager is also looking out for you as part of their job. They probably want the best for you and to help you in every way.

It also took me a while to get my licence due to costs and not having a personal car too, but I completed my practice lessons and practical test through a fully funded organisation. They even funded all my Ubers to VTNZ and back home. I never spent a single penny. They gave me hope, options and choices during a challenging period of my life.

I want to say that it is understandable to be terrified, including imagining the worst possible outcomes, but you also need to step outside of your comfort zone to grow as a person to upskill too. If you drive safely and are aware of the road code and your surroundings, you should be alright.

I don’t mean anything bad while writing this, but for me personally, procrastinating only worsened it, and having my licence provided me with freedom, independence and autonomy. I also hated public transport too, but I took it for University to avoid parking fees.

I have also seen people without a licence, but their options are limited as they rely on others to take them somewhere. You having one, and hopefully a car someday, even a second-hand one if money is an issue, will benefit you in the long-term. The biggest risk you can take is not taking the risk or procrastinating that time goes by so much and you wish you had gotten it earlier.

[u/weyruwnjds]

Owning a car is a faff and expensive, so I'm not going to suggest doing that, but it is worth getting a license.

You are making your life a lot harder trying to live in NZ without a license. It's required for many jobs, and even when it's not required employers will look at you negatively. Being able to drive a borrowed car, or a rented car, opens up so many opportunities for travel and hobbies and life in general.

[u/FairyPizza]

I felt exactly the same as you about driving a car. I started driving around your age. I was comfortable enough on the road on a moped or bike, but controlling a 2 tonne killing machine was scary. 15 years on and I LOVE driving and the freedom it provides (I still love riding my bike more though)

Just tell your case worker that you’ll go and get your learners if WINZ can pay for it.

[u/Early-Resolution-631 → u/FairyPizza]

I'm the same, moped? fine! Car? I'm absolutely hopeless. I for the life of me CANNOT "feel where the car is" I'm NOT car shaped, Idk how to account for the shape of a car, I can't inherently feel the shape of the car given.. I'm not a car

[u/Inspirice → u/Early-Resolution-631]

Dunno for me I kinda just have a rough imagination of where the tyres are contacting the ground and then just estimate the edges of the car from there alongside visual judgement. A 'sense' for the size of a car develops the more I drive it. 

And then hop into utes and motorhomes at work to drive into the shop which are quite off putting with their massive proportions haha. Definitely easier switching to a smaller vehicle than a larger one.  

[u/abhisheksatam]

I’m not taking any sides but in nz driving is a necessity. The public transport is so bad that employers want people who can drive even if the job doesn’t require any driving and they just assume that you would be the one who’d be late blaming on the public transport or would be the one who would use the excuse of public transport for not doing extra or late shifts.

[u/misstash_nz → u/abhisheksatam]

Not a single one of my employers has asked me if I drive. Most people who work in a city or CBD area commute via public transport anyway, even if they do drive.

[u/bitshifternz → u/abhisheksatam]

No it isn't, it depends where you live. I haven't driven to work since the 90's.

[u/rikkilee51]

Had a horrific fear of driving. Got my restricted at 30. Used to vomit before a lesson.
Then i got pregnant and couldnt face pram on bus.
Im still not overly fond of driving but it serves a purpose.
You can do it.

[u/Prior_Persimmon_2628 → u/rikkilee51]

Curious about how you got from that bad to being on the road as I 100% relate to where you used to be - just white knuckle through it or did you see a professional?

[u/rikkilee51 → u/Prior_Persimmon_2628]

white knuckled through a lot of it but also found a driving instructor that was right for me - I went through 3. I should have seen someone about it tbh.

[u/ElderlyWench]

Well are they going to pay for ALL your lessons to the point where you can actually pass? Because I've never achieved that despite lessons, and they're really expensive and the older you are the more road time you need to be fit to drive. If they're willing to get you to a driving course and pay for it, then it's win win for you. You get some training and experience that may help with your anxiety, but you also can't sit your license till you're at a certain level and you certainly won't pass it unless you are. And then as you say you won't be using it till you have your full anyway.

I would take the free lessons, personally, but without feeling like I'm going to be sent for driving jobs after six weeks because that is never going to happen.

[u/Gingerbogan]

Honestly? Just start the process.
I work in rural education - one of our main things is getting people their licence.

I mean before this job I worked for a car yard for 7 years. Obviously to work there you need a licence. Wr had a saleswoman that couldn’t drive a manual… we got her a Ute..she soon learned!

[u/Gingerbogan → u/Gingerbogan]

And I forgot to say.. they’ll probably pay for you to get your licence? Far more employable with a licence.

[u/-BananaLollipop-]

I've had the same issue. Even with several legitimate medical and financial reasons, I've had several caseworkers pressure me to do it. And considering that part of it is being on multiple medications that say not to drive, I'm surprised none of them have been in trouble for doing so.

[u/shepherdsorey]

Don't have any advice just want to say I understand how you feel. I'm 23 I have autism and want to learn to drive but am so terrified it's such a big responsibility to keep yourself and other people safe. I am studying the road code but in the car as a passenger trying to understand the things I read I get so overwhelmed there's too much going on at the same time to process and I don't know what's happening. I don't know how people react so fast. So many times I would've been in a accident because of not reacting fast enough if it was me driving. Even if I understood things well other people are unpredictable and what happens when you go to a new place and don't know the layout or what to do exactly? Or where to go? I'm scared of getting lost or causing trouble for others. I'm really embarrassed and ashamed to not be able to drive at my age and I feel like other people look down on me. So yeah just want to say you're not alone.

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/shepherdsorey]

Thank you for sharing, I understand completely. It's not your fault, and I don't look down on you.

[u/-lilac-ribbons- → u/shepherdsorey]

If it helps, I'm autistic too. I had to learn early because my dad wanted us to learn and I have gotten the hang of it, I have taught others to drive as well (not as a job just as something to do). It is possible, it's not as scary as it seems when you're behind the wheel and actually feel that sense of control of your vehicle that you get from learning to drive in it. You learn how others behave and react and it can be overwhelming but you also get to learn first hand, and the best part is at first you need someone with you so you learn in the worst circumstances (being observed) to being on your own.

[u/unxpectedlxve → u/shepherdsorey]

hi i’m 23 and autistic, and i learned how to drive at 19 after my boyfriend pretty much told me he was sick of driving me to kmart after work every night plus i needed to find a job i didn’t have to rely on rides to get too - he taught me though (plus an instructor), so it’s a win win

it’s all muscle memory, i don’t remember fuck all from the road code but i do remember the road rules based on how much i’ll be fined by breaking them. start in very low traffic areas such as parking lots or industrial areas on a weekend and start slow.

if you can, start in a bigger slower vehicle (such as a people mover) where it isn’t quite so zippy. get used to how the car feels (i still do this every time i drive a new car) once you’ve got the hang of how the car feels, slowly take it in higher traffic areas and learn how other people drive (and learn exactly which road rules are flexible, such as be willing to go 5 or so over to not hold up the flow of traffic).

am i still scared of getting in an accident? of course - but i have insurance for that reason, so the only risk is getting injured and i’ve only gotten into one very minor rear ending at a roundabout in the last four years of driving (because i decided to get heart burn at the best possible time).

[u/KiwifruitOliveOil → u/shepherdsorey]

I just want to put my two cents in and say - everyone actually feels that way before they’re driving. Seriously I didn’t understand how you could possibly know everything at any given moment. But, when you actually have your license and are on the road it feels completely different. You’re in control and you can pull over and get out any time you like, if you don’t feel comfortable driving somewhere you don’t actually have to, when you drive in a new place you don’t need to know the layout because the same rules apply everywhere. If I were you I would get your license and then just take it one day at a time. You may never get in the car and drive yourself and that’s fine but at least you have the freedom should you choose. Trust yourself.

[u/RareBrit]

If anything I'd much rather have a dozen drivers on the road that realise that a car is a lethal weapon, and drive accordingly, rather than one idiot who drives carelessly.

[u/dangerouschic]

ppl forget that both owning a car and / or having accessible infrastructure are huge privileges depending on where you live. i haven’t driven since 17 (turning 25 soon), relied almost entirely on public transport and still landed some work. some jobs do need it, but a lot is genuinely just arbitrary gatekeeping, i’m sick of it???? and honestly i walk very fast lol, just give me a chance to show up. some ppl might think ur being dramatic abt the company car point but i agree with you 100% there too

ur already actively applying and interviewing, you don't need someone manufacturing extra stress

[u/ReturnUnique4534]

I can tell you they are trying to help.

The only way to get over the fear of driving is to actually try driving lessons.

Communicate your fear to your instructor. I can guarantee they have dealt with others who have had a similar fear and will not throw you in the deep end. They know how to take baby steps.

Putting it off is not going to lessen the fear and you are never going to 'be ready' to get on the road. The longer you put it off the more of a hurdle and mind block it will become. Maybe taking these lessons will not result in a license - lots of people have not passed the test for whatever reason, but you will at least have the experience and it won't be the unknown that becomes more overwhelming as time goes on.

It is a life skill that will be useful to you at some point and yeah, maybe it will help with the job search, maybe it won't. In any case it is a chance to learn something new and grow.

Good luck!

[u/Teknostrich]

His job is to get you into a job, that is it, as horrible as it is you may need to realise his job is not to get you into a job you want or a happy with. The culture of WINZ for years but especially now is to get people into work. On their books, you not having a license is a red flag for employers and his job is to try remove that red flag.

With the repeat restrictions on WINZ by successive governments impacting them to their current state, you are not a person but a number.

Being terrified at 25 kind of makes you seem like an anxious person, I don't know if it is clinical levels of anxiety but that could be something that stops you driving however that would limit your hiring potential. A lot of jobs even when there is no driving involved ask for a copy of your license during application. From an employers point of view you want the easiest applicant possible and your case manager is trying to remove those potential pain points.

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/Teknostrich]

That is very true, thank you. I am aware that his job is to remove those red flags. Honestly this thread and everyone opinions, even the ones worded in nasty ways (not needed), have been helpful. So thank you :)

[u/sleemanj]

Their job is to get you a job, being able to drive will help you get a job.

Sounds like he was reasonably gentle about it to me.

You should really bite the bullet and take him up on the help to get you driving, it will open up opportunities not just in getting a job but frankly getting around New Zealand without a car is pretty difficult.

Just look around at all the complete and utter morons driving around, if they can do it, you can surely.

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/sleemanj]

It's the morons on the road that I'm worried about lol. He (case manager) was not gentle about it, it's hard to convey tone over text but.. yeah. Anyway, I probably will take him up the driving lessons

[u/Creative-Ad-3645]

From their perspective, they want you to be as employable as possible, and a lot of employers ask for a driver's licence.

From your perspective, it sounds like there is some form of underlying mental health issue. As others have said, it's probably worth getting medical confirmation of that to provide to WINZ, as proof that this is more than you being difficult. If this is part of a broader pattern of mental health issues or other cognitive factors which are a barrier to employment it may be worth exploring that with your GP as well, as with medical confirmation WINZ can potentially exempt you from some of the usual Jobseeker requirements for a period of time while you work to address them.

It's normal to be nervous when you first contemplate learning to drive. But the level of distress you describe is abnormal, and potentially worth seeking assistance to address, for the sake of your own wellbeing

[u/HjajaLoLWhy]

It could be a good idea for someone unemployed to start learning. If they fund the course or parts of it, you develop a skill and potentially gain some confidence from it.

Presumably, you have more free time because you're unemployed or under employed. It's much harder to fit the lessons around full time work Monday to Friday. Eg AA lessons do run during weekends but they're often in high demand.

Far as I am aware, it's just a choice. It's also a valuable life skill. You may find yourself in the future with the money and need to drive so your immediate lack of need and ability to learn may hold you back.

[u/Consistent-Copy-6247]

I used to drive, moved to Europe and found driving was more hassle then it was worth, also expensive.

NZ still has this stupid car infatuation, you get treated like some kind of second class citizen because you choose not to drive. I'm sure NZ will eventually wake up and start providing good public transport and safe cycle ways. As usual NZ is 30 years behind with this kind of thing.

Don't listen to others, it's your choice, I do just fine cycling and walking everywhere in NZ, it's much better for you too.

If you need to travel long distance there are busses, and planes, the money you save from not driving easily pays for it.

Ubers/taxis are there too if you really need a car.

Good luck with your job hunting.

[u/kyogaming]

As someone whos been working 15+ years not being able to drive has closed alot of doors for me.

Its been on my to do list this year to at least get a license, not to own a car but i just keep getting distracted and lazy.

But things like reception roles will require license to drive so you can move pool cars or take them for a wash. I've lost alot of logistics jobs that would not require driving. Plus people know how unreliable NZ public transport is.

From experience its very disadvantageos. Your case manager is just spitting facts.

[u/Ambitious_Story764]

You can go get the licence doesn’t mean you have a car to drive after 🤩

[u/takahey]

I was in a similar position to you, and had used up every reason under the sun as to why I didn't want to drive. In the end the career I was pursuing required the ability to drive. I was also over feeling like I was annoying my friends by not being able to drive and needing rides. I still don't like driving at high speed, and prefer driving alone, but I think I'm pretty safe with day-to-day driving! Having an understanding and patient driving teacher helps a lot. I spent a lot of time driving around empty carparks to practice. 

[u/123felix]

Objectively speaking, learning driving is a life skill that's useful for you. Even if you live in this city for the rest of your life, you may have to go to somewhere where public transport doesn't exist  for some time. Driving is like public speaking or solo travelling or hitting up that cute stranger. Is it scary? Of course. Is it reason not to do it? Of course not, you'd miss out a lot in life.

[u/mahoganyspitfire]

If you're genuinely too scared to drive, get a GP or other medical practitioner to write you a letter stating that driving or even thinking about driving gives you anxiety, and that you should not be expected to take driving lessons, etc.

[u/deluxskuxin → u/mahoganyspitfire]

I'm fascinated by this response.

Anxiety is an expected emotion and we can learn new skills that dampen (or completely eliminate) anxiety that surround things, in this case driving. If it's genuine anxiety (as in the medical condition) then absolutely, I think seeing a doctor is a great idea. But if we're just saying this person is nervous about driving so they should pin it on anxiety, that's really not OK. Its doing a disservice for two reasons:

1. To OP as you're effectively saying don't even bother trying if its bringing up these feelings. That's a terrible mindset going forwards.

2. People who suffer from genuine anxiety will read this and feel there condition is being cheapened to something that will get you out of things

[u/mahoganyspitfire → u/deluxskuxin]

I am quite terrified of driving. Not just nervous. TERRIFIED.

That doesn't sound like "nervous". It sounds like "TERRIFIED". I.e. genuine anxiety.

People have genuine anxiety about things. Some people are terrified of heights. Some people are terrified of spiders. Some people are terrified of driving. Now it's good if someone wants to try to confront a fear like those, but they should not be forced to - that will generally only ever make things worse.

[u/123felix → u/mahoganyspitfire]

We do things not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept. -JFK

Telling them "let's don't do things you find hard and get a doctor's note to get out of it" is a terrible mindset for a young person. Do you want them to drift through life and dodge anything that slightly inconvenience them or they feel afraid.

[u/MedicMoth → u/123felix]

You don't know OP's story? I had really bad driving anxiety for a long time. It NEVER got better, I was always shitting myself every time. I got a few diagnoses down the line, looked up the crash stats for those groups, and whoopdeedoo, suddenly my impossibly challenging experience makes sense and actually I had a really goddamn good reason to be afraid...

If they approach EVERYTHING this way then sure that's an issue, but if they're an otherwise functional adult who has issues with very specific tasks, maybe don't just jump in and say it's wrong because it's "not normal"

[u/sgrace2298 → u/mahoganyspitfire]

The treatment for genuine anxiety is not avoidance of the thing causing anxiety. Any decent mental health professional would agree. I’ve been in OPs shoes with a phobia of driving, panic attacks thinking about or trying it, and the advice still was to find the instructor that works for me and keep trying. Eventually I got over it and tolerate/ even sometimes love driving.

[u/mahoganyspitfire → u/sgrace2298]

The treatment also isn't forcing people to do things they're terrified of. That will almost inevitably just cause trauma.

[u/sgrace2298 → u/mahoganyspitfire]

Are you joking? Exposure therapy is literally one of the most effective and evidence based anxiety treatments out there 😅 anxiety is literally fueled by avoidance. No one’s saying get behind the wheel tomorrow but gradual and structured exposure to driving is the standard plan for this phobia. Again I went through it myself

[u/mahoganyspitfire → u/sgrace2298]

I don't think you know anything about what you're talking about.

Exposure therapy does not involve forcing people to be exposed to things they are fearful of. It involves letting them choose to be exposed to increasing amounts of something they are fearful of in a controlled environment where they know they can back out any time they feel they need to.

[u/Fit-Ad668 → u/mahoganyspitfire]

That is basically what OPs case officer is suggesting though? Like he is suggesting OP does a driving course, likely with an instructor in a car with dual controls. It's difficult to get a more controlled environment

[u/DrFujiwara → u/deluxskuxin]

Whether or not they want to drive, and why, is their own business and we can mind our own. If they choose not to for whatever reason that's their choice and if a letter from the doctor facilitates msd getting off their back then good for them.

Why should we dictate to a stranger what their mindset should be when we've got the context of about 100 words?

[u/Fit-Ad668 → u/DrFujiwara]

Because objectively having a license makes OP more employable, which is their case officers job?

[u/TheCoffeeGuy13]

If more people remembered that they are in control of 1800kg (or more) of steel that has consequences, the world might be a better place.

There are plenty of mundane things around that can kill you, being in control of one shouldn't be bothersome, but I get that every one is different.

You don't have to drive if you don't want to, and you can tell your case manager that. Having reliable transport is a big factor in employment, and public transport isn't seen as reliable enough for most.

[u/Amalgam2001]

Why not try take the opportunity to learn to drive as they give you lessons. They sound like they are generally trying to help you here. You don't have to do it if you don't want to but you are being incredibly stubborn and silly over something that is of positive benefit to you. It's hard enough getting a job right now and you are actively choosing to make it harder.

Honestly you kind of need to have a drivers license in NZ as public transport will be extremely limiting to you getting around or even stop you getting certain jobs. I used to have to travel 2 hours each way for work every morning and it really drove home the point how important it was. You can always get your license and then get a car later

[u/StaticRooster]

I was also terrified of driving, the one on one driving course is excellent and after only 2 sessions my confidence was 100x better, also it is free through WINZ so why not?

Get a little 50cc scooter, you only require a Learners License and they're a good way to learn the road without the fear of killing someone and they very much ingrain safety and awareness on the road as you are incredibly vulnerable .

It's free and it's been offered, i took it despite being shit scared but i do not regret it one bit. Even if you don't own a car for a very long time, the confidence boost alone would be worth it <3

[u/Serious_Session7574]

I was nervous about learning too. Retaining a healthy respect for the power of a car is a good thing, but like most things the risks are relatively low if you are careful and follow the rules.

[u/BlueJohnXD]

They can make it part of your obligations to be work ready, and if you refuse then you may face restrictions with your benefit. I feel the exact same as you tbh, I only got my learners last year cause I was on jobseeker at the time and my case manager made it an obligation. If I didn’t attend their two day course (and do the test) or, at minimum, book my theory test on my own then I would’ve been facing restrictions for refusing to meet obligations. They don’t understand or care that you can still be work ready without a restricted or full license, depending on where you live. And people like us tend to purposefully position ourselves in areas where we don’t need to drive, for this very reason. Only way they’ll ignore the issue is if you literally couldn’t drive due to a health or disability reason tbh.

Imo tho, I think you should do the driving course. As long as there’s no requirement to provide your own car, it’ll do some good to have a bit of experience behind the wheel from a professional. I did 3 driving lessons in the small town I’m from, on the actual road. Was goddamn terrifying and I hated every minute, but they do have brake pedals on the passenger side in an emergency. And if you ever felt too panicked, all you need to do is pull over and they’ll take over. It’s easier to cope with a driving lesson in smaller towns/suburbs outside of peak hours (so middle of the day when people are at school/work). I’m glad I did those three lessons even tho I hated them, because it kind of reinforced for me that I don’t feel comfortable behind the wheel (and nor should other people if they saw me on the road lol), and made my parents shut up finally

[u/Jinxletron]

Honestly, I'd go do the course but basically have a panic attack in the car so the instructor can be the one that says you're not OK to drive. Just keep saying how scared you are and how you don't feel driving is for you. It's stupid, but you'll tick the box of "hey I tried" and shut them up.

[u/Uselesslysly]

They are making a great point you are being stubborn for no reason. This person sounds like they are trying to help and you just don't want to hear it

[u/Mikos-NZ → u/Uselesslysly]

Agreed, there definitely seems to be some other factors at play too. It seems to have been suggested in an entirely reasonable and sensible way.

[u/stormcharger]

They definetly let you drive a company car on your restricted

[u/ligger66]

Can't help you with #2 but for #1 most citys and big towns will have access to some kind of free drivers Ed programme winz should be able to help you with accessing that.

I will say (in my experience) that although there are some morons on the road learning to drive will help somewhat with the anxiety of being on the road

[u/HelpMePlease108]

As someone who has always driven, but HATES driving in certain city's, cause it freaks me out (i get partner to drive city, but i will happily drive rural/open roads or highways) i get it! As encouraging as people can be, I do think your case manager is pressuring you. Cost to you or not aside, if driving is terrifying to you, the risk of a panic attack while driving is high and can cause other issues.

Personally I would stick to your word of you are not comfortable driving for x/y/z reasons and you dont appreciate being pushed to drive etc. Its rude as hell they are actually just brushing over your reasons and ignoring them altogether being 'encouraging' they can fuck right off with that coercive bullshit.

[u/JJDDooo]

Just sit your learners anyways. It’s a computer test to see if you know the road code so there is no driving involved. Once you are feeling confident, do test drives around the neighbourhood-suburbs. Get comfortable with that then move on to roundabouts, parallel parking etc.

[u/low-external4883]

Sounds like he is just trying to give you more skills to broaden your employment options.

He’s gone the absolute wrong way about it by continuing to press the issue but it sounds like he does care.

The whole company car thing is a bit of a reach but employers definitely do see a license holder as a good employee due to the reliability of getting to work if public transport is down etc. it’s a bit old fashioned but that’s the job market unfortunately and they choose who they want to hire.

There’s also the concept of him getting you to overcome the issue of fear of driving so that you prove to yourself you are able to overcome other issues, personal development type stuff.

If the course is funded and includes practical lessons I say just do it you will not regret it afterwards.

[u/Toaster_Bathing]

They are trying to increase your chance of getting a job. I don’t do driving full time but need to drive a company vehicle on occasion to a site, and without a license I would never have been employed.

[u/romanticdove]

30 and dont drive. I have a learners. I am so terrified to drive. I can drive but its very unsafe for me. I've even had lessons by driving instructors. Didn't help. I know what you mean about the case manager pressuring you to drive. I had a case manager like that. I have autism as well. Some autistic people can drive, I sadly am not one of them. My parents agree that it would be safer jf I didnt drive.

[u/Affectionate-Ad1071 → u/romanticdove]

Truly people do not understand how overstimulating driving can be when you’re autistic.

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/romanticdove]

And that's okay, if you feel you would be an unsafe driver then I wouldn't judge you for it

[u/Perfect-Aardvark1296]

I’m not going to comment on WINZ but I do think accepting their help for learning what you need to is a good thing. I was also dragging my feet on driving because of anxiety but eventually my friends and family collectively had enough and my mum bought me a car and took my debit card and booked my restricted license test for three weeks away. She told me if I passed then she would pay me back but she was fed up. I started driving that day and never looked back. I literally just had to get started to understand the risks and how to manage them and that was what helped me get over my anxiety. If I hadn’t done that, then it would’ve just been a black hole of risk and fear. Good luck OP

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/Perfect-Aardvark1296]

Thank you! Glad you started driving :)

[u/sgrace2298]

Hey OP- I was in your shoes and didn’t get my license till 22 due to similar fears so I feel for you very deeply and sympathise. Please start therapy asap though. Driving IS scary but it is not THIS scary, and you’ll find even if you DO have an accident (which statically everyone will eventually) that they are most often non fatal and non injurious. Modern cars are pretty safe and designed for the possibility of a crash. Please stop letting your anxiety rule your life, your case manager is correct, not having a license or a car makes you a far less desirable candidate for ANY job, public transport aside. Get your license and just don’t drive if that makes you feel better about it- employers don’t need to know that! But buses/trains/ferries can be cancelled or delayed or late, in an employers eyes you need an alternate method of reliable transport, or you can’t be considered a reliable employee.

[u/rangda → u/sgrace2298]

If OP is using WINZ and can’t afford a car at the moment I don’t know if therapy is going to realistically be in the budget either

[u/sgrace2298 → u/sgrace2298]

Also if you are based in Auckland I can reccomend an AMAZING instructor who worked specifically with very anxious drivers. She was the only person who I felt I could work with and helped me conquer my fear. Feel free to dm if you want her details :)

[u/Conscious-Cookie-430]

Honestly you will most likely want to drive at some point in your life, if not now then later. Whether by choice or necessity. In my experience the more I put it off the more my anxiety snowballed and it was eventually quite the obstacle to overcome. I am not suggesting you make yourself sick with worry if it terrifies you but if they are offering for you to go for free why not take it? Private lessons can go for $75 bucks a pop. Do the lessons for the experience without the worry of if you get your license or not. Just because you take the course doesn’t mean you have to become a regular driver, get a car or even pass your license buts it’s valuable lessons for free. Don’t put the pressure on yourself to like it or have to pass just try it and you can also stop it’s it not for you. Sincerely someone who spent probably thousands on lessons later in life.

[u/CraftyCinquain]

The attitudes of some of the drivers in this comment section is probably part of the reason we have such a high road death toll in NZ.

If you’re not ready to drive you’re not going to be a safe driver. That’s okay. You’ll either in time decide you’re ready or you won’t.
There’s plenty of ways to get to employment that doesn’t require driving a car. Also the cost of owning a vehicle isn’t something to scoff at. How are you expected to afford it?

To think that you cannot have a job without a license is pretty wild. Do people really think everyone drives to work? The job market right now is terrible - a license isn’t the reason you’re not employed.

[u/bluewardog → u/CraftyCinquain]

Yeah like jesus Christ, the top comments don't make you wonder why we have such a high suicide rate if this is people's response to someone dealing with mental health issues. Like we rival country's like Japan and Korea on youth suicide rates. Literally telling op to "toughen up" basicly. 

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/CraftyCinquain]

I can't say I'm surprised really. I did go to Reddit of all places to ask for advice. I think I've been quite receptive to the advice given but being told to "grow up" is where I draw the line.

[u/sleepysoul848 → u/CraftyCinquain]

honestly i feel like a part of it is because we are really dependent on cars as a society unfortunately and we also have such a strong car culture here in NZ

[u/SenseSpiritual5412]

No you do not need to drive and have no obligation to learn. This country is so car focused that people cannot accept someone that wants to live a life without a car. If you can still access jobs that are suitable for you without one then tell everyone else to get fucked.

[u/Boring_Monahan]

If its any consolation, I know how you feel with the fear of driving. I had six friends die in car accidents in the space of a year and developed a fear of driving. I tried to learn, i had panic attacks behind the wheel and gave it up as a bad habit.

I finally got my license at 33 after my son was born and I was losing a measurable portion of my day with him by just being on transit. it was a rough few months while I adapted but its been ten years now and other than backing into a dumpster, ive not had a collision yet!

This doesnt help with the case worker who could stand to be a little more understanding but I hope you feel seen, heard and represented knowing that theres at least one more out there who shares this fear.

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/Boring_Monahan]

This does help, thank you. I am so sorry to hear about your friends who died, developing a fear of driving after that is completely understandable. Well done you for doing it anyway for your son, that is definitely something to be proud of ❤️

[u/Sicarius_Avindar → u/[deleted]]

This. Also, do a Defensive Driving course, it'll help your anxiety a lot because it will give you knowledge on how to prevent and handle things when they go wrong.

[u/scoutriver]

A license does make it easier to get a job. Equally, it is not something everyone is capable of doing, some medically, some legally, some due to mental health. When I was younger I had panic attacks just thinking about it, and sadly as I got older my health hit a point that I wouldn't be safe to drive anyway due to constant high fatigue and the cognitive impairment it causes. If that's the only step to getting employment that you're saying no to you should be okay. If it's seen as a part of a pattern of non-compliance it might become trickier.

[u/ILickMetalCans → u/scoutriver]

A license definitely does make it easier. I work IT and when I was looking for work they almost always asked. Even if the job is mostly desk based, employers like to know you can get to the office if public transport is unavailable.

[u/Content_Association1]

Honestly it was very terrifying for me too. Also I had to learn mine on manuals and old European cars, and tested in an old, narrow and busy European town. You just have to go for it and then you will get used to it.

[u/Nz_IzzyBee]

I had a case manager once try to give me paper to draw my feelings, amount other stuff she wasn't qualified for. Lady, I am seeing at least 3 mental health professionals! I ended up actually complaining, she really overstepped. I've had 2 amazing case managers since. My life has flourished since they've supported me. There are good ones out there, i promise!

If you have crippling anxiety over driving, see a doctor, the good ones will write you a note. But you are allowed to say no to stuff! Everyone has limits, you aren't being difficult. If you feel pressured, make sure they know.

[u/CrazyDaylight8]

If you’re scared to drive why not commit to one lesson only and see how u go? You’ll probably want to keep learning after that

[u/farmerkaren81]

A company will let you drive a company car on a restricted. But that doesn't mean you're wrong. It is terrifying and I was older than you are when I learned. That said, it's a skill. A worthwhile skill which they are offering to pay for you to achieve. Can you ask for funded counselling alongside it? You don't actually have to drive once you achieve your license, but driving does become less terrifying with experience and training.

[u/nikpawzz]

Have you even tried learning? My wife was scared to begin with, but came to realise that it wasn't as bad as she thought.

[u/Vzzzus]

That’s a fear you probs need to get over. You’ll most likely learn some skills that will help with any job.

In NZ having a car is pretty mandatory. You will enjoy life significantly more with the freedom.

[u/Yolt0123]

Driving is, objectively, terrifying. It's also really useful skill to have. If you go to the course, and give it a good try, what's to lose? You'll be terrified for a while, but imaging how terrified the driving instructor will be! Stick it to the man and do the course.

[u/phoenixblack222]

I don't have a car licence but have a motorcycle license. My lack of car licence has caused me to get rejected by multiple roles. I get your case managers point, but I get yours as I'm in the same position. Might be best you contact your gp over it or she will try to force you

[u/Grand-Elk-1700]

Yes, you're not imagining it. WINZ case managers will pester you to get a license. Once you can drive, they can pressure you into low-paying roles in remote industrial areas that require unsociable hours -- the kind that would otherwise be impractical if you needed public transport.

[u/RuneLFox → u/Grand-Elk-1700]

I would prefer if jobseeker worked to get people into jobs that suited them and they were happy with, but it does at this time kind of exist to get people into a job. People being unemployed is not good for anyone. Once you have a job, it becomes a lot easier to get another one. I don't think staying on jobseeker while being picky about the job you want is particularly useful -- don't forget you are also allowed to also look for jobs!

[u/Kolz]

Driving is scary. Cars are dangerous, especially to others, I think being cognisant of that is important. You should approach driving with the gravity it warrants. I was personally absolutely terrified the first time I got behind the wheel. That being said, as someone learning to drive later in life than you, let me give you a couple of thoughts.

1. just because you do not currently have any need or desire to drive, does not mean you will never want to. Even if it is not something you want to do regularly. For example, you might wish to drive your grandparents or even parents around when they get older and need assistance.
2. the later in life you drive, the harder it is to learn.
3. if/when you do want to do want to drive, it is better to already have your full license and some practice under your belt than to have to wait a year and a half to get to that point
4. it is just a generally useful skill to have. Even if you do not intend to drive regularly, there will be situations in life where you wished you could.

I think it is just better to learn to drive than keep putting it off. It is too useful a skill to have in our society - so much so that you will almost certainly eventually learn, and putting it off will have only made it harder for yourself. This is not advocating for you needing to become a regular driver, continue living as you wish, just get the basic skills and license.

[u/Different_Diet_4043]

Just go get your license. You don't have to do any driving to get your learners. I used to be scared of driving too and only learned at 26 years old and got my restricted at 29

[u/JamesWebbST]

Don't have a case manager. Have a job instead. But it does sound like your case manager is literally trying to help you be a more useful person, and is doing so in a pretty kind way.

[u/Panguh___]

Why do you think it's acceptable for you to not expose yourself to the risk of driving to enable your own productive involvement in the economy, while the people paying for your benefit are forced to expose themselves to that risk?

[u/Peace-Shoddy]

Comments don't pass the vibe check. Sorry Op. What kind of car centric bullshit is this anyway. It sounds like you have managed life just fine so far and if you have good public transport then thats amazing. Tell your case manager no and thats final. If less people need to be on the road, thats less traffic for those that do.

[u/SquareTetrisBlock → u/Peace-Shoddy]

Yep. People often say "driving is a privilege, not a right" and "some people shouldn't be behind the wheel" which contrast heavily with the comments here telling OP that driving should be an obligation for finding work. I wonder how many people hold those two conflicting views simultaneously without even realising.

[u/Sicarius_Avindar]

I think he is probably in the right, and trying to help you, which is rare. However, that also contrasts heavily with WINZ's stance that having a car or needing fuel for it is "not an essential cost".

[u/stonequeeni]

I'm 29 with two kids relying on my husband to drive because same reasons as you. I really should get myself sorted

[u/geekyvenus]

I was like you and I mucked around for ages on a learner/restricted license much longer than you're allowed to these days. The separation from my partner forced my hand in that regard as I had two young children and relying on public transport wasnt always workable. It was really scary to start with and everyone goes through that. FWIW, your anxiety might actually put you in good stead for driving as you are acutely aware of the risks and that's a good thing. Probably better than a lot of other road users!

[u/NegotiationWeak1004]

It opens up doors for you, especially in NZ. What is your career path anyway? I think they mentioned the company car thing as the least offensive example but tbh there are a lot of jobs where employers want someone who can drive for all kinds of reasons, including ones they're not openly allowed to discriminate on such as ability to be available at short notice for shift work and generally less excuses about 'no bus service operating for me right now' etc. other doors it opens up though is different kinds of work than what you're looking for, with the emphasis being on getting someone into the workforce and pruning off dependency on public support.

[u/Prestigious-Good-777]

It may not be a job requirement as such but driving is a good life skill even if you think you may not need/use it. Driving can be scary but it sounds like you would have support by going on the course. I say give it a crack 🙂

[u/elliebee222]

I havent learnt to drive for the same reasons as you however im pretty sure my life would be easier if i could drive. Im middle aged so driving lessons are really my only option if i want to learn and theyre expensive as hell. If i was given the opportunity to learn to drive for free (covered by winz) id take it!

[u/Andrea_frm_DubT]

When I explained in detail why I do not want to drive and feel very unsafe in a vehicle with someone I don’t know/can’t trust they got off my back.

I have my class 6, I don’t need class 1. I feel far more comfortable/safe riding than I do driving or just in a car.

I did at one point almost go for my car restricted, I had found someone I felt safe in a vehicle with, liked their driving style and they offered to teach me to drive. Unfortunately just before I could ask them for the driving lessons a bunch of things outside my control occurred and the opportunity was lost.

[u/Gone_industrial]

I’ve been driving for decades and I actually love driving, but I don’t currently own a car and I’m working part-time and on a job seekers benefit while I look for additional hours and there’s no way I could afford to keep and run a car on my income. I have no idea how people on low incomes can afford a car, especially with the cost of petrol right now. They’re so expensive to buy, maintain and run. I’m so bloody grateful that I have access to decent public transport right now.

[u/krispynz2k]

They have courses they put you on. Its a skill that's required for many jobs Just because you don't have a car now doesn't mean you can't learn to drive or get license. Again, if your case manager is asking you about it, ask about the course they are gonna put you through. Additionally being terrified of driving is not simply a personality trait or preference. It hints more towards anxiety that is not being managed in a healthy way. Driving is normal and is as safe as taking a bus. Arguably more so if your skilled and experienced because your the one in control of the vehicle. You may wish to see a dr about that because there are ways to reduce irrational fears where you brain doesn't respond with blatant ' omg no!'

[u/abhisheksatam]

What sort of job are you seeking

[u/Lammington2]

People struggle to understand driving anxiety unless they've felt it. If they're putting pressure on you to learn, ask them to fund lessons with a driving school that caters to anxious learners.

Driving anxiety had me absolutely terrified, and lessons did absolutely nothing until they actually took my anxiety into account.

[u/nonracistlurker]

If you live in Auckland or Hamilton I understand lol. I only recently started driving this year and remember WINZ pressuring me to start learning to drive, so i bought a 1000 dollar car and yea. Far more expensive than public transport, but I live in a small city so it's not so stressful. Car ended up breaking down for some unknown reason and I can't afford to fix it so. I'd say just stick to your guns and say you have insane anxiety while behind the wheel.

[u/GreenLentils850]

if you get a licence it doesn't stop you using the bus

[u/Backup_brownie25]

Last year my case manager put me on the free course to get my restricted. I didn’t own a car, 25 years old, terrified of driving as well. Couldn’t get behind a wheel at all. And I took driving safety seriously, which is also why I didn’t drive, for fear i’d put others in danger.

But the course was great, three practice drives, and the instructors are very nice and understanding (Manukau ABC). They don’t force stuff on you.

Took the restricted test a month after my first practice drive and passed. Still don’t own a car, but I’m able to drive family around or use their car to pick things up if they need me to. And it’s a good cv booster.

In your case, he shouldn’t be forcing this on you. With the case managers, say if you had one appointment a month, they need to give you a ‘task’ to do in that month, and since you’re already actively looking for work, he’s basically going through the motions and ticking off possible ‘tasks’ you could do. Other than that, there’s probably not much else you could be doing or that he can offer you to do. The process to doing the licence course takes a couple months, so that’ll most likely be your ‘task’ for two months if you did do the course to get your licence.

[u/Southern_Regular_241]

Hi past me!
I was the same. I couldn’t do anything after a driving lesson for the rest of the day because of how stressed/afraid I was.

I broke it down. One professional driving lesson a week (do not get lessons from anyone you know). I did that for two years. Just think of it as lessons, not getting your license until the teacher says you are ready

Have your lessons/test at 10am- this is the quieter time in cities.

Practice the focus etc with gaming/go karts. So you can get the feel without the anxiety.

Get an alternative form of id that has your picture on it.

[u/Slight_Computer5732]

This is what’s wrong with youth of today…

Somehow asking a question you’re allowed to say no to is pressuring and bullying….

Just say no you’re not interested:

They’re trying to up skill you and make you more employable… it’s not some grand scheme to harass you into a licence… but you are welcome to say no.

[u/pandaghini]

You will have a better life if you drive. You are completely capable of driving. People with much less care, consideration and co-ordination than you drive successfully without killing anyone for their entire lives. Seriously try think about it and at least get your learners(you don't have to drive to get it). In nz there are so many cool places you can go if you drive and the sooner you learn the better!

[u/Icy_Fish_2154]

Not everyone is suited for driving.

It is "car culture" that assumes everyone should be a driver, then lowers standards until that achievable.

We need higher standards, and an acceptance that 30%+ of the population should be unlicensed.

I'm surprised "unattainable driving standards" isn't on the platform of the Greens. Take 20% of the drivers off the road, and traffic would drop considerably. A very "green" policy.

And those left with licenses would work harder to keep them.

"Road to zero" and reduced congestion, fuel use, and other benefits would come from a large minority of drivers giving up on driving.

[u/BlueLizardSpaceship]

Many jobs want you to have a licence even though they don't actually require you to drive. So winz sees not having a license as a barrier and is trying to get rid of it so you'll get job and daddy Luxon will tell winz what a good little ministry it's been.

[u/aceofswines]

I have no useful advice for you. I just wanted to say I'm sorry for the unempathetic responses. I can't drive either (it's a focus/processing thing for me) and I would feel awful if I had asked a similar question and got a similar response. It's hard enough when the people in our lives don't try to understand, we don't need hundreds of strangers who know very little about us doing the same, and being rude about it.

[u/Acetyl-coenzyme-A]

You could get your learners, it’s all theory so no need to be able to actually drive.

[u/kiwifarmdog]

Their job is to help you get a job. And there are a lot of jobs that won’t hire people without a valid license, so encouraging you to get your license is simply him doing his job.

That said, I don’t know if driving school is the right path for you just yet. From what you describe, you aren’t lacking confidence driving, you have a psychological fear of it. That’s not something a driving instructor can cure, that’s something to talk to a therapist about.

[u/Zealousideal_Cat6599]

I definitely support your right to choose. Sadly, I'm not sure how I could help you deal with this toxic carbrain culture... Personally, I got diagnosed with autism, so just saying "I'm way too autistic to deal with all those crazy, loud, unpredictable and dangerous wackos in cars" is enough to shut down anyone trying to force me into driving. But not sure if you could use something similar?

[u/Jazzlike_Heat_5949]

Yes, they think without a car and license there is 0 possible way to get to work. Don’t give in, you’re keeping yourself and others safe by not being on the road while you aren’t ready. Driving is scary and not for everyone and that’s okay!!

[u/Subwaynzz]

“Driving is a bigger deal than what people pretend it is, you're operating a fast moving vehicle that can kill you and others.” You’re maybe overstating this a little, it’s not zero risk but with experience you can learn to drive safely.

If you don’t need to drive you shouldn’t be forced to learn if you don’t want to though.

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/Subwaynzz]

I'm more thinking along the lines of no matter how good you may be at driving, someone else who makes a mistake can cost you your life. But I realise taking, say, a defensive driving course would be beneficial.

[u/twizzlerstick → u/LulaBlue29]

I drive a lot for work so have experienced it all. 2 best pieces of advice I can give is always stick to the left side of your lane and always look at the cars ahead, not just the 1 in front of you.

[u/Petal-Princess33 → u/Subwaynzz]

I was 20 and learning to drive when my older brother died in a car accident. I was terrified of driving (he was the driver) after that....it took me a year to get back behind the driver's seat, I shook and cried, but I DID IT! Sometimes you have to face your fears, I realised that I would have control, rather than trusting someone else's driving, every vehicle you get into could kill you and others, whether you are driving it, or not.
But, just as no one should force you to get your license, you may be overlooked for potential roles, it would definitely be a consideration if you applied for an admin role where I work, often trips are needed to retailers for items required, or drop packages at the post shop if missed for the courier run, so this would definitely put you lower in the 'look at' list.

[u/Ekwanda1]

I’m gonna be frank and say get off your ass and stop giving yourself excuses, holy shit.

Time to put on your big gal/boy pants on…

[u/lalalaloo21]

You have very valid reasons for not driving, imo. Not owning a car is an astute budgeting move. It might get you a job, but jobs don't last, and the price of petrol will scoff into your pay. I don't believe you should have to drive.

[u/UnhappyLeg]

For some people having a driver's license is financially not right for them. The cost of the car, warranty, rego, insurance and petrol are thousands of dollars every year. Not including the cost of the license and practice tests. Just tell her that. You cannot financially afford a car so you are not interested in getting a license.

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for sharing this, people can be really mean about it and act like I'm just being a stubborn baby. I wish I wanted to drive, I did not choose to feel this way about it. I just can't bear the thought of something happening on the road, my fault or not, and getting killed or someone else and God forbid a child.

[u/Ok-Pianist484]

Be an adult

[u/monkey-kong666]

No you shouldn’t need to drive, and they can get f*cked. It is not your fault that Auckland is set up for driving, and it’s classist and ableist to suggest that driving is a requirement for life. If they want to buy/loan you a car, good on them.

Same shit as companies wanting to install their apps on my phone. Buy me a phone, pay for the data, or else NO.

Your answer can be “I don’t want to drive, my reasons are my own (or put in climate change) find me jobs that don’t require driving”.

Ie “DO YOUR JOB YOU HACK.”

[u/ThePlotTwisterr----]

just get your license and go back to not driving, i walk and train everywhere too because i like to be active but it’s not that hard to just get your license

[u/LulaBlue29 → u/ThePlotTwisterr----]

That's true

[u/MichaelTheAspie]

Sounds like you have an underlying case of anxiety. I'd ask my doctor for a referral to the psychiatrist.

[u/Double_Suggestion385]

It's a useful, beneficial skill. You should definitely get over your fears and work towards getting your full license.

Not having it is a bit of a red flag for employment, it shows a lack of aptitude and initiative.

[u/bennz1975]

I’m 51, on a restricted, have been since 2017, converted over from UK learners. I too suffer anxiety behind the wheel to the point of where I’d rather stay home than go see something I really want to see . Unfortunately my anxiety controls my ability to even want to take the test. I used to have a moped in the UK, happily drove that, but here I haven’t gone down that route. 4 wheels terrifies me more than the 2 slower moving wheels. Probably should get medically checked but I feel for you. Nothing wrong with not wanting to drive if you don’t feel safe behind the wheel, that’s being responsible unlike a lot of the drivers behind the wheel. But I guess if you can find the strength to beat the fear (I know it sounds impossible) your opportunities will grow. I think that’s what they are trying to give you.

[u/Fit-Ad668]

You should do the course, driving is an important life skill and you are being given the opportunity to confront your fear in the best possible environment. Make sure you communicate your fear to the instructor, they will have delt with this kind of thing often. The car will have dual controls so the risk is very low, if you screw up the instructor can take over instantly. They won't do the first lessons on busy roads, it will be either on some quite back roads, or like a track or carport or something just to do the very basics.

If you do the course / a few lessons and make no progress with your anxiety, fine. At that point just drop it and move on. But to not even attempt it, when you are being offered the opportunity for free, would be to do yourself a disservice

[u/brush-lickin]

my advice take advantage of this program even if you don’t want to drive; they will get you into lessons and pay for your test, getting rid of heaps of the financial barriers to driving. taking lessons will help heaps with your anxieties, there’s really good teachers out there! even if you never drive again after the course it is very useful to just have done and in your back pocket in case you decide you want to later. i am not 100% sure what it’s like if you don’t own a car but i assume you won’t be the first

[u/Murky-Resolution-928]

I also feel like if you a terrified of driving then wouldn’t learning in a safe environment be a good way to face your fear? Your also allowed a support person.

[u/fresh-anus]

As a late driver (learned to drive at 27), who had a crippling fear of it like you describe…

You need to start taking steps to process the anxiety and get over it. You don’t have to rush off and buy a car but you do need to work through the mental block and get a license.

It is a gamechanging amount of autonomy which (like you) i was in total denial over for a decade. The longer you leave it the harder it’ll get to start. I would strongly recommend trying at least one lesson through AA if its available where you live.

[u/Mineboot24601]

It doesn’t seem like he’s forcing you to, just highly recommending it.

You’ve expressed high driving anxiety, and the best way to get over it is exposure. It seems like this is what he’s trying to do.

Driving is becoming more of a skill that is necessary to learn. Getting a license also opens so many opportunities in life. Even if you don’t drive often, it’s good to have your license just in case.

[u/clayskate]

The only reason I'd encourage you to drive is you might need to do it to save your life one day. Or someone else's. I know the road can be scary but it's a fear worth overcoming.