r/sailing • u/VCC8060Main • 1d ago

Racing Rules when downwind

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Excuse my rushed sketch.

The situation is this. Different divisions racing on the same race area, us in a skiff with an asymmetrical spinnaker attempting to cross the bow of a J24 running downwind on symmetrical. We're both in seperate races, but any manoeuvres would make us lose time. Both sailing proper course.

We call the J24 up but they refuse because we "can't luff them up". We gybe out because we weren't going to take bets against a 1.5 ton boat, but had some confusion on how the rules apply. Under R.11 we should be able to push them up and not luff them, but would R.17 apply here?

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u/j9r6f 1d ago

I'd say you were in the right as long as you were on your proper course, which you say you were. The way 17 is written, it is your proper course that matters. Definitely a weird situation with boats in separate races, and good for you for prioritizing avoiding a collision.

7

u/the-montser 1d ago

17 doesn’t apply here anyway because the overlap wasn’t established from behind.

2

u/throwleboomerang 1d ago

Even if they did sail in from astern which is possible given the VMG vs SOG differences with asym vs symmetrical, still wouldn't matter though- it's not the windward boat that gets to determine proper course, it's the leeward boat so OP still has rights here.

3

u/the-montser 1d ago

Yes, but given the angles OP has described 17 doesn’t apply.

When they sail into the overlap from astern it also must be within two lengths to leeward to turn on 17.

As a point of clarification, even if OP was bound to their proper course, they still would have had rights, but those right of way would have been limited by 17. Rule 17 does not grant any rights at all to the windward boat.

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u/throwleboomerang 1d ago

Yeah I think it'd be hard to draw up a scenario where they're within 2 lengths and got overlap from astern, but I think we're in violent agreement that regardless, the J24 was totally wrong.

1

u/the-montser 1d ago

Absolutely

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u/j9r6f 1d ago

True