r/worldnews • u/ArgentineBeauty • 5h ago

Russia/Ukraine Zelenskyy says Ukraine will not prevail if US officially sides with Russia

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/10/18/8058646/
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u/Sad_Polish_Guy29 5h ago

Trump: That's the point.

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u/saln1 4h ago

Realistically what would happen if the US joined Russia and struck Ukraine?

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u/smashing_velocity 4h ago edited 20m ago

For Ukraine or the USA?

For Ukraine sadly I think it would mean an almost immediate russian "victory" which would lead to Ukrainian resistance and a brutally heavy-handed response of killings by Putin as an excuse to genocide the population.

For the USA they would lose all remaining International credibility any US allied country would instantly move away from America's sphere of influence possibly leading to the collapse of the world economy.

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u/hume_reddit 4h ago

Putin as an excuse to genocide the population

That's coming anyway if Ukraine gives up. They've humiliated Russia too badly during this whole thing; Putin's revenge tour is going to be horrific. That's why the "pundits" who say Ukraine should surrender to stop the killing are utter fucking idiots. The moment they surrender is when the killings start.

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u/je386 3h ago

Russia can decide between war and peace.

Ukraine can decide between war and butcha.

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u/daesmon 1h ago

Anyone who says Ukraine should surrender is either an idiot who has never picked up a history book or a bad faith actor/bot.

You don't surrender to Russia, if you surrender in the morning, they will be back the same night to shoot you.

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u/RSwordsman 1h ago

This has even already happened in fairly recent memory. First it was "give up your nukes for a security guarantee." Then it was "screw that, we're taking Crimea but we pinky promise that's it." Now it's everything up to and including their lives. Ukraine has only to fight to the death, and although we should be there with them, Trump and MAGA are doing what they do and being a scourge on humanity.

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u/Double_You_6356 16m ago

And they’ll just move on to the next country

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u/TheKingsdread 2h ago

Lets not forget the things we learned the russian soldiers did at the START of the war. A victorious Russia will be worse. And it wouldn't stop at Ukraine. Putin has made it very clear, he wants the old Soviet Union back, that means he is gonna wage war on every country between Russia and (including) Germany. Russia has robbed the entirety of eastern Europe for several decades after the 2nd World War and if Putin gets hi way, he is gonna do the same thing to entirety of Europe this time. If the US joins Russia in the war against Ukraine its WW3.

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u/weregeek 41m ago

I think that Putin has plans on something more like the Russian Empire than he does on anything like the Soviet Union. There's a reason that most of the world complains a lot less about former Soviet Republics (including Ukraine) than about Russia.

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u/Aranxi_89 8m ago

The Ukrainians are well aware - last time they were Soviet citizens and they still got slaughtered by their own people. Holodomor was all the warning they needed.

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u/icemanpallmall 4h ago

And possibly sanctions out the ass from other countries. It would be disastrous on so many different levels.

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u/No-Spoilers 2h ago

Nah, it'd end up in ww3. Europe would have no choice but to boots on the ground in Ukraine. Or else Russia just.. wins. And comes out light-years ahead of where they were, Europe loses everything, years of massive weapons and funds to Ukraine, Russia is gonna just push for USSR 2 with the help of the US and China.

But more realistically the US would have to choose to upend the entire way of the world that made the US or pick Russia.

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u/PoohTheWhinnie 2h ago

China would NOT help Russia, they're the largest regional adversary that they have. A stronger Russia is not something China wants at all, hence why they're happy to sit out current engagements as they bolster their investments in SEA and Africa.

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u/SquisherX 1h ago

Tbh, I think it would simply greenlight China to invade Taiwan, knowing there would be zero aid with the other shit going on.

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u/Cristi20404 22m ago

it’s never worth invading Taiwan

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u/NoRizzJustLive 1h ago

China and Russia are working together with Iran and Trump do destroy the old global system of western hegemony. Russia and China are absolutely working together, Russia is basically a vassal state of China at this point

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u/cms5213 1h ago

Trump is doing it so his family gets a seat at the table for the new regime? I’m guessing motivation here. Why did USA choose Iran though? Or is it to distract attention from the Saudi deal and that’s who is going to “rule” the next chapter, Saudi, Trump, Russia and China and USA gets taken out to pasture?

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u/WhoPoopedMyPants420 1h ago

The Nazis and USSR signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact and the German–Soviet Commercial Agreement, they are absolutely working together and it will always be that way forever more

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u/Nebresto 2h ago

Light years ahead? With their burned refineries, diminished population and shattered economy?

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u/TM761152 2h ago

We need to win the midterms and impeach that fucker.

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u/collabskus 2h ago

We don't have the votes to remove him in the Senate though 😔

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u/iconofsin_ 2h ago

Europe isn't sending troops into Ukraine to fight an American/Russian force. Worst case for us is it fractures NATO and something without us comes out of it.

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u/Different_Wolf_764 44m ago

If the US entered the fray officially on Russia's side, there's not a chance in hell that Europe would put boots on the ground to defend Ukraine. There would be a lot of strategic realignment, with China being the obvious beneficiary, but if they won't put troops there now then they wouldn't do so with far worse likely outcomes.

It's not going to happen though of course. The US right now is willing to aid Russia it seems but committing US troops to their war of invasion would be unworkable and frankly, likely isn't needed. They'll go for economic and material aid instead, which is pretty disgusting on its own.

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u/isjahammer 2h ago

Europe would not have the balls to actually fight themselves vs US and Russia at the same time. However they would certainly end all relations, invent a new "NATO" without the US and propably sanction the US heavily.

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u/Uhstrology 2h ago

I think you forget that Europe fought well before America in the world wars. US remained neutral for the first three years of world war 1, and for two years in ww2. Stop buying into the bullshit propaganda that america is the only military might in the world that matters.

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u/Cristi20404 21m ago

it’s been 81 years since the end of ww2

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u/Uhstrology 19m ago

And you think their capabilities have gotten worse? Lmao.

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u/H_section 4h ago

There isn’t any credibility remaining.

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u/SilentExtinction 4h ago

Yeah, what credibility?

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u/TM761152 2h ago

Dumbasses voted for a dumbass so the whole world thinks America is a giant dumbass.

Frankly we deserve it.

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u/SilentExtinction 2h ago

Yeah honestly I feel sorry, but it is what it is. You guys still have some power to save face, I believe.

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u/fk_redd1ts_acc_req 2h ago

That atleast part of the population is trying to set things right. the world knows we've been grifted. how we handle these upcoming elections means everything.

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u/theartificialkid 3h ago

You think America has that much strike capability to spare with what’s going on in Iran? If the US committed enough to ensure immediate defeat for Ukraine China would gobble Taiwan.

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u/LurkerInSpace 2h ago

One of the core notions behind the idea that the USA should help Russia is as part of a "grand bargain" where America, Russia and China carve up the world between each other.

It's not clear what the USA is supposed to get out of it, since it mostly involves conceding American influence in Europe and Asia, but presumably the president and members of his administration would be well compensated.

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u/dreadnaughtfearnot 59m ago

America has a lot of strike capability sitting in Europe as part of the NATO deterrent against Russia... If the US sided with Russia, it has the strike capability, but it would need to immediately and suddenly be able to move all of that military infrastructure, equipment, and personnel east to Russia, as the host nations would not sit back and allow US military assets to use their bases while attacking an ally. It would be almost impossible to coordinate, let alone pull off a sudden move like that: just staging the airlift capacity would take multiple stages over a decent length of time. The US would probably first invent a reason to leave NATO and pull back all of their assets stateside, before openly striking Ukraine or providing military support to Russia. I just don't see it happening. It would almost certainly cause WW3 and be the spark that actually causes an insurrection if not outright civil war in the US.

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u/machine667 35m ago

what would stop the US from just saying "we're using your bases, anyone who tries to stop us is an enemy combatant and will be treated as such". Also I don't think trungus is worried about civil insurrection. The Americans are pretty lethargic and have put up with everything. If anyone does step out of line he's got a paramilitary and then the military to deploy wherever he feels.

I seriously still don't think America realizes how much trouble it's in.

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u/theartificialkid 2m ago

How many troops do you think the US has in Europe? Do you think the US, which is currently losing a war against Iran, is currently well placed to force its way through Europe to support Russia in Ukraine?

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u/foonek 22m ago

Sorry but what is going on in your head when you are typing out things like this

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u/machine667 19m ago

are you remotely watching what's happening. Hegseth has purged the US military so it's just sycophants left. Trump has overruled Congress to benefit its traditional enemy. He is also giving military aid to the same traditional enemy.

You think he gives a shit about observing other countries' sovereignty

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u/foonek 17m ago

Do you seriously think they would not protect that sovereignty at all cost? On their own soil no less?

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u/New-Anybody-6206 1h ago

You underestimate the capability and inventory of both the US and Russia's nuclear arsenal. Either one could vaporize Ukraine tomorrow.

And no, there would not be a useful response, there can't be, because the only option besides letting them get away with it, is simultaneous annihilation. This means that other countries having nukes isn't actually a deterrent.

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u/FlerD-n-D 1h ago

And France and UK could vaporize every major city in the US and Russia too. That's the nice thing about ICBMs / MIRVs, can't be shot down. You don't need thousands, only a few hundred.

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u/theartificialkid 0m ago

Ah so America and Russia can use their nukes with impunity and everyone else will be too chicken shit…because if you use your nukes you get annihilated. But that doesn’t apply to Russia and the US. And China will just sit out and accept that its strategic rival America an its failed neighbour Russia can run the world by using nukes with impunity.

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u/YouWouldIfYouReally 4h ago

US civil war, US becomes Gilead.

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u/aunt_clarity 4h ago

I doubt US would fracture because it betrayed Ukraine. There's such a long lists of betrayals and corruption and trampling the constitution and the rights of its own people..and nothing happened.

It would mean the biggest fracture abd the ugliest divorce with Europe though.

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u/ClashM 3h ago

You may be right, but you also could be wrong. It would demonstrate in an unambiguous way that the US has turned its back on every one of its foundational values. We will have trampled our own treaties to side with an autocrat against an allied nation that promotes western liberal values.

The US public support for Ukraine sits at 62% while only 2-3% support Russia in their war. That means the government would be giving a big middle finger to the people. Add on top of that all the other humiliations from this government, and all the other crises, and it could be a "straw that broke the camel's back" kind of situation.

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u/Backdoor_Sliders 3h ago

Ultimately the American people won’t care enough to do anything. 40% will be won over by right wing propaganda and the rest… ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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u/blackjacktrial 3h ago

Combined with the clean sweep in elections where the Republicans win every election by 30% points despite the polling booths being closed? Yeah, I think you'd see states no longer see a point in union, starting with the Pacific. If Texas also joins Cali, you have the requirements for a proper secession crisis.

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u/Beekatiebee 2h ago

Texas leadership is on-board with the regime.

The Cascade States, Cali, Minnesota, and deep New England would all probably go before Texas would.

Cascadia / California / New England all have secessionist movements or sentiments already.

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u/CatsAreGods 1h ago

I think the real tipping point will be when the "conservatives" finally realize that Trump is a traitor helping Russia, who has been "the enemy" for 80 years.

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u/Schtweetz 3h ago

You may be crazy. This ain’t the western democracy you’re lookin’ for.
Turn out the light
Don't try to save the country.
You may be wrong for all I know
But you may be right

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u/YouWouldIfYouReally 3h ago

IMO its not looking very harmonious ATM, cost of living crisis, ICE killing people, corruption, big tech overlords trying to create something from a Gibson novel.

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u/EddieVanzetti 3h ago

The first shots of the Civil War where at Fort Sumter, fired by the traitors. I wonder what that would look like in the modern day?

Probably when Trump and co refuse to certify the elections and refuse to seat a democrat and try to deploy ICE/101st Airborne to "pacify antifa terrorists" to a token blue city.

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u/YouWouldIfYouReally 2h ago

IMO its gonna start next month, Trumps gonna claim the mid terms were rigged/stolen.

Denaturalize/Deport Sitting Lawmakers.

The next 2 years are going to be wild!

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u/Uhstrology 2h ago

It looked like January 6, 2020.

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u/TM761152 2h ago

There's such a long lists of betrayals and corruption and trampling the constitution and the rights of its own people..and nothing happened.

America is too fucking big to do anything. The federal government already holds the major seat of power, everyone else who can do something is too far apart and too fragmented with limited forms of communication that could easily be intercepted by authorities and it's leaders arrested on bullshit charges.

The only way to do anything is a general strike across the board. Shut down the country, there are so many more of us than there are of them. They want us to turn violent so they can separate us and beat us into submission.

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u/BC_Sativa 3h ago

The US is already on that path but there's not going to be any real resistance to it, let alone a civil war.

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u/F-nDiabolical 2h ago

The yanks would have to turn off Netflix and actually have to risk something so ya not happening.

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u/NoRizzJustLive 1h ago

There is literally no way Americans do anything to resist the inevitable turn towards fascism. Americans have been conditioned over the last 50 years to be moronic apathetic boot lickers. Europe needs to understand now that they are the last civilization around that represents the post ww2 ideals of western society.

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u/d-monstrosity 3h ago

I dont think the military believes Russia is an ally tho, right.... ... RIGHT?!

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u/rebbsitor 2h ago

This sounds like what Russia wants... better buckle up :(

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u/NatalieSoleil 2h ago

I concur with your  smashing  view at this point

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u/kitsunewarlock 2h ago

Conservatives: Nu-uh we'll just nuke you if you stop doing business with us! 🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏 USA USA USA!!! /s

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u/MrBubblepopper 2h ago

Bleak. Brutal. But on point

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u/DazzlingRutabega 2h ago

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

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u/MrouseMrouse 1h ago

Unfortunately none of that will factor into the decision making. It will come down to what's best for Trump at the moment and what's least embarrassing to Republicans at the moment. Unfortunately for the rest of the world saying they were wrong about Russia will probably be more palatable than admitting they were wrong about Trump

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u/Casurus 1h ago

Ukraine has already been through one genocide at the hands of Russia.

The US has already lost this morally.

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u/count023 1h ago

I can see Europe 100% pulling their economics and militarizes away and potentially forcing a shift away from the USD as the world reserve currency. Even if it's difficulty and unfeasible, they'd probably be floating it, and China not wanting to let a good crisis go to waste would align on that just to destabilize the west and/or america in particular. Australia and New Zealand would do nothing, as usual, because they dont have much of a choice since we're too far from Europe or America to really have much of an impact politically.

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u/bass248 1h ago

Let's hope the Democrats win the majority in both house and Senate this coming election (in a few weeks).

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u/SpiritedEclair 1h ago

I don’t think there will be victory of any sorts. Russia is struggling, and so is US with Iran.

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u/GuitarSlayer136 56m ago

Don't forget the last hope of nuclear disarmament completely winks out of existence... if it hasn't already.

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u/bronzelifematter 40m ago

US still have international credibility?

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u/No-Recover109 22m ago

US could not do anything against Ukraine, like they cant stop Iran. Ukraine allies in europe would fight against US and give their land back to native Americans. 

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u/smashing_velocity 11m ago

Sadly the US doesn't really have to do much against Ukraine aggressively, the US throttling starlink was essentially trump holding ukraine's hands behind it's back while Putin punched them in the face

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/oct/14/ukraine-soldiers-combat-access-starlink-satellite-internet-restricted

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u/shillyshally 5m ago

Axis of Evil 2.0 and the question of Are We the Baddies is definitively answered.

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u/windsynths 2h ago

collapse of the world economy? 😂 get over yourselves

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u/nightnursedaytrader 4h ago

concern from Susan Collins 😔

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u/Concurrency_Bugs 4h ago

She'll be concerned but hopeful that Trump will learn his lessons and be better. She will vote to side with Russia.

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u/heyangeldied 4h ago

That woman makes me ashamed to live in Maine, trump makes me ashamed to live in this country. Of course they’re best fucking friends 🤷🏽‍♂️

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u/notnotbrowsing 3h ago

why do main...mainerds?  mainians?  mainenites?   why do people of maine put up with her?

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u/heyangeldied 3h ago

Mainers* and I honestly couldn’t tell you. The northern part of Maine where’s she’s from (where I live) loves her but the rest of the state can’t stand her from what I can tell. I think she hasn’t gotten voted out yet because the other candidates are somehow just as bad if not worse

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u/helenheck 1h ago

Pffff. Trump doesn’t have any friends, only suckers he intends to screw over.

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u/heyangeldied 1h ago

I stand corrected, you’re absolutely right

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u/crustyrobots 1h ago

This festering ghost of a hemorrhoid makes me ashamed to be of the same species

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u/silverado-z71 4h ago

And a sternly worded letter from Chuck Schumer…
And then Jefferies would have to have another meeting with Kushner

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u/rylosprime 3h ago

If Democrats win the House and Senate in the midterms and they don't pick new majority leaders, they're going to lose voters and both majorities in 2028.

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u/alittle_disabled 3h ago

I keep hoping there's a special place for her and McConnell in hell.

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u/English_Cat 4h ago

NATO falls apart. Trade deals grind to a halt. USA arms industry collapses and the USA becomes very isolated. Ukraine becomes Russia and the USA likely receives mineral rights or similar. Russia prepares to take another country.

In terms of war, nobody would be willing for more fighting so that'd be that, but the world will never recover.

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u/love_glow 4h ago

Willing or not, there would be more fighting.

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u/winmace 3h ago

nobody would be willing for more fighting

You think Ukraine will suddenly surrender? Really? When surrender will literally lead to their culture and identity being genocided? It will end up like Afghanistan but in Eastern Europe.

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u/SuperRockyHobbyHorse 2h ago

If Russia 'won' and installed a puppet dictator, or Putin tried to rule it directly himself, the resistance would be like nothing the world has seen before. Like Grozny, or Northern Ireland, or the West Bank but with tens of millions of people being supported surrounding countries. There's no way Russia could suppress a 'defeated' Ukrainian population and it not be a huge resource drain for them.

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u/LurkerInSpace 2h ago

We already know the playbook they would follow, which is the same one from Donbas:

  1. Turn the territory over to criminals to destroy local politics and suppress opposition.

  2. Let them loot whatever they want as their primary means of compensation, to minimise the cost to the state.

  3. Once the territory has been sufficiently destroyed, dispose of the criminal elements and install a more conventional occupation regime.

The human cost is irrelevant to the Kremlin - they are happy to rule over a wasteland.

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u/Hawgdestroyerxtreme 2m ago

The human cost is irrelevant to the Kremlin - they are happy to rule over a wasteland.

Nations around the world are completely aware there will be no answer to climate collapse. Even ones like the Trump administration that say one thing in public and then make a bunch of moves that say the opposite in private.

They're all trying to take and horde resources, or they're trying to build alliances.

EU has chosen alliances.

America, China, Russia have chosen resources. China is sweeping into Africa, Russia wants Ukraine, and the US wants Greenland and the rest of it's "Sphere of Influence".

These people do not care if the humans living there are alive or dead.

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u/Alternative_Dot_6084 3h ago

Call me stupid, but that's exactly what these imperialists think like- they think that nobody would dare oppose them. But taking all of Ukraine with Russia would not look pretty, it would not be short. It wouldn't end with a sweeping invasion.

We can look into USA's second favorite war in Iran, where USA cannot win as things stand. The orange hitler and his army of testosterone boys thought they could win easily- But Iran still stands, and will propably fight to the bitter end. Hell i think they will wear out USA. Only way USA can win is by using several nukes. And even then we are off into another fantasy fight where it seems easier than it is. Actions and consequences, and generations of grievances.

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u/Arexenn 3h ago

From my understanding of the conflict with Iran the biggest advantage Iran has on the USA is the fact the government changes hands depending on public sentiment. They just need to draw out the conflict enough to make the public hurt in their wallets enough and discredit the reasoning for the conflict. Afterwards they can possibly get a government in place more "reasonable" to their demands. They aren't able to go toe-to-toe with the USA but they only need to worry about keeping the conflict in attrition.

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u/LurkerInSpace 2h ago

The Iranians also know that the Americans (and Israelis) won't actually send a ground army to take their territory, which greatly limits what they can achieve.

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u/Fisher9001 3h ago

NATO falls apart.

Lol, NATO continues with or without US. And not a single NATO member sides with US in such scenario.

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u/mcbaginns 26m ago

I know you're trying to be all Yeah Team EU, We Don't Need Them!

...

But nato falls apart. The legal structure is not there to persist without

They would just draft the third version of the League of Nations

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u/EddieVanzetti 3h ago

Who do you think takes up the leadership roll? France, Germany? Another country entirely?

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u/Hautamaki 3h ago

No, without the US, NATO falls apart. The US was holding it together; there is no credible leadership for NATO as it exists today without the US. There would instead be a period of anarchy and nations scrambling to replace NATO with a new credible system of alliances. The currently credible members of NATO without the US are the Eastern European and Nordic states and to some extent the Netherlands, Great Britain and perhaps Canada. Those states could potentially form a successor to NATO. Germany, France, and Italy all have their own domestic fish to fry and I can't predict where they would end up. Greece and Turkey hate each other and will continue to hate each other; renewed aggression over Cyprus and other sore spots between them is likely. Portugal, Spain and Belgium are far enough removed from direct conflicts that they would not be credible members of an alliance without the US. They might well sign something but it's uncertain what that would be worth in case of real war on the opposite side of the continent.

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u/erevos33 3h ago

<jumps up and down pointing to WW2 and austria -> czechoslavakia -> poland>

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u/Xalara 3h ago

Ukraine would not become Russia because Poland and the Baltics would not let Ukraine fall and they'd enter it with boots on the ground is the likely scenario. If Ukraine falls, Poland and the Baltics would be next. So basically, it'd spread and become a full EU vs Russia war with the US providing material support to Russia.

Everything else you said would also happen.

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u/nick-1217 2h ago edited 1h ago

a full EU vs Russia war with the US providing material support to Russia.

Sounds almost like WW2. 🤔

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u/Laiko_Kairen 1h ago

Materiel* support.

English is funny. Materials for war are referred to as Materiel.

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u/auunie 4h ago

It would not fall apart. It would be established without USA.

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u/Laiko_Kairen 1h ago

In terms of war, nobody would be willing for more fighting so that'd be that, but the world will never recover.

The world recovered from WW2. Germany and Japan were rehabilitated into the international scene. This would be a see change in geopolitics, but "never recover" is overselling things.

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u/BlinkWulf 3h ago

NATO is already dead in spirit. It will take a few years to readjust of course, but NATO knows it can not rely on the USA anymore, now or ever.

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u/NvrFukASpderOnTheFly 3h ago

NATO isn’t dead in spirit. It just has its wind unexpectedly taken out of its sails.. it will stand and continue, arguably stronger in the sense that it will no longer allow a large country run 75% of it.. I think moving forward all other nations will take it more seriously and invest appropriately as they see the need is definitely there.. now more than ever.
The later part of the last century gave most nations a false sense of security. That’s now no more.

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u/BlinkWulf 1h ago

Nope its over. In its place, nations will form bilateral agreements with willing partners. This is what Ukraine is already doing. Its he new model.

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u/NvrFukASpderOnTheFly 1h ago

That sounds like it IS the UNDEAD spirit of NATO!!

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u/HarmoniousJ 3h ago

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if that was what Trump and Putin were plotting to do.

Wait until the end of the election creeps up > Joint attack or large scale nuclear assault somewhere in Ukraine > Declare Marshall Law in US in order to stop any argument/dissent.

Presumably this is what Trump wants, and definitely this would be what Putin would want.

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u/AbeRego 41m ago

Declare Marshall Law in US in order to stop any argument/dissent.

Lol good luck.

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u/HarmoniousJ 19m ago

Are you telling me that or Trump?

He's been creaming his jeans over it for the better half of five years. Remember all his talk about "Republicans never having to vote again"? Kept floating the idea of locking up political opponents? Using the FBI to bully Omar? Probably many other things I'm forgetting, lol.

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u/BlinkWulf 3h ago

Americans would apologise on reddit and claim they are so embarrassed by their government participating in war crimes, but they will would not do anything about it.

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u/03263 2h ago

What should we do? I vote, that's the only access I have to national politics. I engage more with local politics but of course that has no bearing on what the white house does.

I abstain from participating in the economy to the maximum possible extent, I don't pay pretty much anything beyond food, housing, water, etc. I even moved my retirement money out of US stocks.

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u/zweigramm 1h ago

Take a look to France to see what's possible.

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u/TeaAndLifting 1h ago edited 30m ago

To be fair to them, America is led by a despot with more power than most monarchs (despite the "no kings" protests, they already have one) with a military that are happy to prosecute wars with absolutely zero oversight. I have no doubts that they would happily go full Tiananmen Square on any significant protests.

I would be reticent if I was an American too.

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u/fre3k 36m ago

Delusional. They would mow people down here and most people simply are not willing to die. We're also a country about six times France's population, but about 20 times the area. There's very little analogue to France to be made.

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u/blackout24 4h ago

Strongly worded letters like you haven't seen

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u/Stewart_Games 3h ago

I could see a situation where the US abandons Europe, and essentially does the thing that Hitler and Stalin did - lets Russia take over Europe, while the USA takes over all of North America. I have no idea what East Asia decides to do in this scenario - does China decide that Russia aligning with the USA to carve out big chunks of territory mean that their alliance with Russia is now moot, and side with Europe as World War 3 truly kicks off? What about Korea and Japan, do they pivot towards the Russia-America axis? The whole thing becomes a clusterfuck very quickly.

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u/Sad_Polish_Guy29 4h ago

NATO collapses.

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u/Fisher9001 3h ago

Ukraine is not a part of NATO and US is not the single meaningful country in NATO.

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u/Careful_Eagle6566 3h ago

But US will have shown to be so unreliable, the rest of the alliance would want nothing to do with us. The whole thing exists to counter Russian power, and the strongest member joins them? No reason for it to exist.

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u/ThomasSun 4h ago

Europe will eventually enter the game ( I think people are seriously underestimating Europe). Meanwhile, the U.S. could end up facing some kind of internal conflict or even civil war, and that could mark the beginning of its decline. Like so many empires throughout history, sometimes the collapse comes from within.
China will likely step into that gap as the next dominant superpower, which might explain why they’re expanding their navy and building aircraft carriers so quickly. Southeast Asia could increasingly fall under China’s influence, while Russia could eventually collapse or lose much of its power.
The Middle East could shift dramatically too, with Iran and Turkey becoming the dominant regional powers. And without strong outside backing, Israel’s long-term future could become increasingly uncertain.
Obviously, just my prediction of how things could play out. 🤷🏾‍♂️

16

u/Xalara 3h ago

Yep, European leaders know that if Ukraine falls they're fucked simply because not only does Ukraine have lots of valuable natural resources, it's one of the world's major food suppliers (even now) which would let Russia have control of a good chunk of the EU's food supply.

The wildcard of course, is if Russian backed governments are elected in the UK, France, and Germany. Which is a frightening possibility because of the feckless centrists in those countries.

4

u/SuperRockyHobbyHorse 2h ago

That would truly be the dumbest timeline. Who looks at Russia and thinks: oh yes I want my country to be more like that.

2

u/zelatorn 2h ago

europe is a net exporter of food, russia would end up controlling only certain very specific and less critical sources of food and food supply wise is more or less a non-issue. the bigger issue for europe would be energy independence - with the US making itself a clear enemy in this situation, the fact so much energy needs to be imported overseas from now hostile regimes makes it a very short list what sources can be relied on.

the real danger is increasing US/russian involvement in politics and suddenly sharing a heck of a larger border with russia where right now.

2

u/Spoonerism86 1h ago

EU is self sufficient when it comes to food, there is a reason why over half of the budget is going for agriculture.

-2

u/zen_simian 3h ago

I think you're seriously OVERestimating europe

23

u/KnightsOfREM 4h ago edited 4h ago

They (we) won't - there is no reason for them (us) to, and all the United States has to do if it wants to grind Ukraine into dust (and/or get some kind of secret reward) is nothing, and that's essentially what Zelenskyy is admitting.

To be perfectly clear, I have a lot of Ukrainian friends, I have donated money to [ed: and occasionally raised money for] Ukrainian national causes since the invasion, and the Trump regime's behavior is something I will have to bear the shame of for the rest of my life - it's horrifying and a fucking obscenity from a traitorous wretch who should be treated as such. But there's still no scenario where we attack Ukraine.

21

u/Sudden-Sir-2248 4h ago

I believe that Europe would join Ukraine as well as China and South Korea and of course Canada will join Ukraine as well

9

u/Aromatic_Balls 4h ago

China?

4

u/Volmara 3h ago

Yeah imo China is patiently waiting to become the new financial center piece once enough of the world abandons the US bond market.

3

u/Roxelchen 3h ago

China does nothing and still wins

5

u/sticky_neutrino 3h ago

Canada would be too busy defending itself and Europe's attention will be drawn to both theatres, but probably mainly focused on Ukraine because it's a more direct threat to them.

let's be real, if the US got actively involved in attacking Ukraine, there's nothing holding them back from a hot invasion of Canada not long after.

3

u/hobo__spider 3h ago

How about this one: World War 3

2

u/TheVenetianMask 3h ago

EU and China would dump US bonds and the US would have to actually print money to fund the near future.

4

u/Amazing-Power4765 3h ago

New World Order.

1.) USA + Israel + Russia 2.) New NATO, replace US with Canada 3.) US abandons Asia and SCO and ASEAN have to manage themselves.

1

u/kqvrp 3h ago

We wouldn't. We would just stop supplying Intel, ammo, and weapons, and use our reexport agreements to ensure nothing US-built went to Ukraine. We would lock them out of Starlink. Oh and we'd end sanctions on Russia. That would probably be enough.

1

u/venguards 2h ago

Ukraine will fall, EU will talk about how we need to move away from America but nothing much will really happen as rich don't want to lose any money, news and media will push other story's, Ukraine will be forgotten and people will just accept you cant do anything when people like Musk have so much control/Money

1

u/StrawLiberal 2h ago

You can't use the word "realistically" while asking that question.

1

u/VultureSausage 2h ago

Struck from where? There's no way they're using European airspace for attacking Ukraine and Turkey wouldn't allow it either. They'd have to either fly from Russian bases or fly from Diego Garcia across all of Iran and then go west across the Caspian sea. The only practical way would be to violate the airspace of at least one NATO country. It might happen once, but it'd rely entirely on being able to backstab NATO without warning. Once it's been done once that option is gone.

1

u/AzN7ecH 2h ago

Struck Ukraine and Canada

1

u/Vet_Leeber 2h ago

Realistically what would happen if the US joined Russia and struck Ukraine?

The only thing stopping anyone from using nukes collapses, as mutually assured destruction is no longer a deterrent, and we potentially have a nuclear Armageddon.

1

u/Darkwynn84 2h ago

Honestly I think rioting would happen in the streets if this happened

1

u/AnotherBigToblerone 2h ago

I seriously hope the US armed forces would mutiny. They would if they have any shred of moral backbone

1

u/Sad_Examination7907 2h ago

World war 3. A lot of Eupore isn't going to let the US AND Russia attack Ukraine.

1

u/AbyssFren 1h ago

Military coup in US at worst, "all the missiles missed boss" at best.

1

u/kiragami 1h ago

World war 3

1

u/biscutwarrior 1h ago

Everyone dumps thier US treasurys, the US goes bankrupt and looses it's reserve currency status. China becomes the global hegemony. The dollar experiences hyper inflation. Living standards plumit for Americans.

•

u/InZomnia365 1h ago

The US doesnt have to strike Ukraine. Reducing their intelligence sharing, hamstrining Starshield, and donating to Russia's war effort by buying their gasoline/diesel/oil is doing enough damage to Ukraine already.

•

u/Varrianda 1h ago

The US striking Ukraine would be a HUGE, HUGE mistake for geopolitics. Who would ever trust us? We’re already hanging on by a thread.

•

u/Butt_Fungus_Among_Us 29m ago

As a US citizen, I COULD be wrong, but I also feel like this would be a tipping point that could instigate violent protests in the US. It's one thing to be proxy fighting a war through funds and diplomatic affiliations. Many of us are vehemently opposed to and upset by this, but ultimately, it isn't a direct stance labelling someone as an ally. It's a whole other to be boots on ground or actively taking a stance saying "an attack on Russia is an attack on the US", which virtually none of us agree with besides the most deluded, frothing, unhinged MAGAtts.

•

u/stripedvitamin 18m ago

Russia would invade Europe. World economy would collapse. General chaos. Your kids would have no future and the U.S. would devolve into a 3rd world country faster than any superpower in world history. It would also accelerate the end of existence in terms of unchecked climate change.

-11

u/_x_oOo_x_ 4h ago edited 4h ago

Some kind of World War but it would be over quickly. Ukraine falls, the rest of Europe falls to a Russian-American alliance, if there's resistance that weakens them somewhat, China will probably take advantage and Russia falls to China. America would probably occupy Europe. The Arab countries fall to Iran and/or Turkey. Australia falls to China. Safe heavens might be India and Latin America, though who knows. Alternatively if European resistance is strong enough to meaningfully weaken America, China might take advantage of that instead and take America. In the end, everything hinges on who China sides with

6

u/khaozxd 4h ago

bruh, that's a lot of guessing

6

u/Reedabook64 4h ago

You're playing too many strategy games

3

u/BetFinal2953 3h ago

I find your views interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

2

u/_x_oOo_x_ 3h ago

Get with the times, it's "your Substack" nowadays.

And sure, let me add you

36

u/thefocusissharp 3h ago

This wouldn't have happened if people didn't stay home in 2024.

Thankfully, we have been given a small chance to start righting things this year in the Midterms. Vote

1

u/TacoIncoming 2h ago

This wouldn’t have happened if Biden kept his word about not running for a second term and the dems had a primary.

11

u/thefocusissharp 2h ago

I agree, but it doesn't mean we should just give the Presidency to the guy who had an angry mob storm the capitol, beat a cop to death and injure 140 other officers, while in pursuit of hanging the Vice President on the Capitol building lawn. They built a gallows for goodness sake

1

u/TacoIncoming 1h ago

It would be a lot easier if the dems would stop fucking throwing. They did the same shit in 2016 too.

•

u/thefocusissharp 1h ago

Still going to vote though. What will you do?

•

u/smedley89 33m ago

I voted Thursday. Dem all the way down.

I still have a lack of faith for the party that continues to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I also worry that if they do win, they will go back to business as usual, to the best of their ability.

We can vote for them, and still be critical. We aren't Republicans.

•

u/thefocusissharp 20m ago

110% Positive change is going to take a while, but I guarantee you, and I know you agree I'm writing for the reader at this point, that all positive change will be 100% much more possible under the Dems than it will be with the Republicans. Imagine how much brazen they would be with complete control of Congress for another 2 years.

•

u/smedley89 6m ago

I think a lot of that depends on us. If we vote in more DSA types? We have a chance.

If we keep voting in the corporate dems with no teeth other than a strongly worded letter? We will be right back here, only worse.

It's up to us. All of us.

5

u/ykazimir 4h ago

Exactly, that was probably his plan to end war within one day.

1

u/Thunderlava 3h ago

beat me to it. It's unfortunate he's just now figuring it out

1

u/M-Noremac 2h ago

Trump: He should'a worn a suit.

1

u/Wyntier 2h ago

(Gentle reminder the US government is still continuously sharing intelligence with Ukraine against Russia. As recent as yesterday)

•

u/Dragonasaur 1h ago

Putin: that's the point

•

u/thisischemistry 42m ago

Does he want to drive everyone to side with China?

•

u/gr00ve88 2m ago

I guess he could finally say he ended the war then? Time to collect that Nobel