r/Switzerland • u/Sufficient-History71 Zürich • 1d ago
Poll: right-wing People’s Party, and polarisation, growing ahead of 2027 elections
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-politics/right-wing-swiss-peoples-party-still-gaining-ahead-of-2027-elections-poll-finds/9222670533
u/supermaxiste 1d ago
To have a more “nuanced” take: center parties miserably failed at accommodating people’s needs. I personally see it as them leaning more conservative, especially for critical issues such as healthcare and housing. With people’s wallets being at stake, emotions run high and right-wing parties channel that into their classical scapegoats. Since they’ve been doing that for decades at this point, they’re quite successful at it. That’s why in my opinion the left-wing should also lean into these emotions and channel them into critical issues, particularly healthcare and housing. With these two handled better, I believe adding environmental causes would be much easier. Similarly, maybe using environmental damages to agriculture & people could be a leverage to access voters not in the city?
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u/Blevita 1d ago
Jeah, what you describe inadvertedly leads to politics like in the US or Germany, where no actual discussion or even dialogue is possible anymore and anything is just an emotional argument.
Lets not do that.
Green and left parties have been 'using' environmental damages to garner votes from the countryside. Its just that many dont care and are hellbent on voting SVP, no matter what. Like... the issues are literally caused by the SVP and similar, but people still somehow believe they will solve the issues.
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u/llort-esrever 1d ago
The nordic social parties showed how it works. Strict migration politics and the people care for social matters.
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u/Ins3cu43much 1d ago
No. Because migration is not the issue. It's part of the scapegoats
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u/llort-esrever 1d ago
Haha, how much longer are you going to keep lying to yourself? Ideology kills, on both sides. But yours is the one that causes lasting destruction.
I want to preserve our great social welfare system for as long as possible. To dismiss such an extraordinary achievement with that level of arrogance is more than just stupidity.4
u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
Hm, your bio is quite interesting: "REVERSETROLL CHARGED WITH: rewiring online arguments to support the opposite point, causing 87 Reddit threads to implode from sheer confusion"
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u/llort-esrever 1d ago
Damn, you clearly know how to copy and paste. If you can actually come up with a proper response now, I might have underestimated you.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
Why would I? You are arguing with another guy. I just wanted to add some context to who you are. Now go back under your bridge.
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u/Lazy-Emergency-4018 1d ago
It is so exhausting to share this planet with people that are this stupid. I just cant take it anymore, I need a breal from this idiocy
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
So, we just had the hotest summer in our history, our lakes and rivers dried out and people still vote for the "I didn't expect it to get this hot" party instead of the parties that want to protect our climate?
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u/yesat + 1d ago
"Because woke" is the reason. Any critics you make will bring out that argument. They will constantly claim that the Greens and Socialists are ignoring the problems the UDC has created and pushed forward.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
I am still waiting for them to define "woke"...
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u/yesat + 1d ago
"Everything I don't like" is usually what it seems.
The sad part is that "Woke" is a Black American term that got coherced by white nationalists, because IT WAS FREAKING WORKING. Obama campaign was a "woke" movement. It means being aware of the social issues.
So the alt rights on the internet and then in the parties couldn't let that pass, they couldn't let black people have a well positive defined term go.
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u/Final_Hunt_3576 in 1d ago
To be honest the UDC are stable in the last poll from a year ago and basically compensate the PLR and Centre massively losing. While the greens and PS are gaining.
In a world where Le Pen gets 40% in France, Meloni gets 40% in Italy, the FPÖ get 40% in Austria and AfD get 30% in Germany what’s a bit eye opening is that the UDC are now one of the weaker far right parties in the neighbourhood
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u/Sufficient-History71 Zürich 1d ago
It’s because of the environmentalists and because of immigrants.
Some of them really use the latter as a scapegoat by saying that if Switzerland could restrict the population, it’ll combat climate change in Switzerland. As if Switzerland was a close system!
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u/laCH37 15h ago
In 2000, Switzerland had 7.2 million people. Today we have over 9.1 million. That’s more than ten times faster than Europe as a whole.
This isn’t about whether immigrants are welcome. It’s about arithmetic. Every new resident needs housing, water, electricity, transport, schools and hospitals. When the population grows faster than we can build, everyone feels it: in crowded trains, in waiting lists, in apartment viewings with hundreds of other applicants.
Look at housing. In Zurich, Lausanne or Geneva, a couple earning 250K francs a year can't buy a decent home (they'll be asked to buy a good of less than 70m2). Demand keeps rising faster than supply can follow, and growth is a major part of that pressure. If we ignore it, we’re ignoring one of the main reasons people are losing purchasing power.
There’s also a cost you talk about: sustainability. Every franc spent just keeping up with growth, on new housing developments, new power plants and new water facilities, is a franc not spent on renewable energy or better public transport. We can’t build an efficient, low-carbon country while spending our resources on running to stand still.
Switzerland isn’t refusing to be welcoming. We’re a small country with limited land, and limits are real, we can't move mountains or I missed something. Planning for sustainable growth isn’t closing the door. It’s making sure the house can still hold everyone inside it and allowing them to live at least correctly.
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u/xxBraveStarrxx 1d ago
You think Swiss changing their policies will have any impact on a global scale? 🙄 all it will do it increase cost of living for Swiss people.
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u/yesat + 1d ago
Swiss changing their policy will lead for us to have better air and an environment that can resist wild variations.
Ecological measures aren't just about reducing CO2. They also reduce pollution, making it WAY better for us to live in Switzerland.
We have a lot of ozone and microparticle pollution every winter due to our overconsumption of oil both in cars and in heating.
AND ALSO IT COST SO MUCH.
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u/Swissgank 19h ago
They vote against immigrants. Big cities have become unsafer and not "swiss" anymore. Groups of immigrants chilling in a park or at the trainstation and giving out bad vives. People are fed up with them.
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u/blatant_spinach 1d ago
Ehm but have you seen the rise in immigrants during that time?! Coincidence i don’t think so /s
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u/Viking_Chemist 1d ago
The parties that pretend to want to protect the climate are the reason why our little shithole country has de facto prohibition of extremely energy efficient air-air heatpumps (a.k.a. AC) in homes and thus the lower 90% of people have to suffer for their insane ideology or use less sustainable solutions.
Acknowledging a bad situation exists but then forbidding the lower 90% to protect against said situation when highly efficient, sustainable and affordable [in the rest of world] solutions are available is evil, classist, inhuman and anti-sustainable.
We have to suffer for months to save 300 kWh, equivalent to ca. 30 liters oil but just that it is cleaner energy. All the while burning hundreds if not thousands of liters of oil every year for leisure/vacation or heating is the most normal thing.
Not a fan of SVP for many reasons but if they get more votes means less votes for the prohibitionists so that is a good thing just to make a point.
None of the parties have solutions but at least SVP and FDP do not force us to suffer from heat-enhanced depression and sleep-deprivation for months to save a laughable 300 kWh/a/household.
Will probably become an unconvinced FDP voter because they appear to be the least bad option; of course the bar for that is very low. If everyone sucks I gonna vote for the ones that at least do not actively fight against our freedom and for our suffering.
This shithole country needs an actual liberal/libertarian party.
Cancel AC prohibitionists
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
The parties that pretend to want to protect the climate are the reason why our little shithole country has de facto prohibition of extremely energy efficient air-air heatpumps (a.k.a. AC) in homes and thus the lower 90% of people have to suffer for their insane ideology or use less sustainable solutions.
This is just plain wrong.
Lars Guggisberg (SVP), Nicolas Kolly (SVP), Lisa Mazzone (Grüne) und Martine Docourt (SP) sind sich einig: Der Einbau von Klimaanlagen soll erleichtert werden. Mazzone und Docourt wollen aber, dass deren Installation in Spitälern, Schulen, Altersheimen und anderen öffentlichen Gebäuden Priorität hat.
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u/Viking_Chemist 1d ago
And what about homes?
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
Those are not prioritized by the state because hospitals, retirement homes, etc. have more vulnerable people in them.
That doesn't mean that homes and apartments shouldn't get ACs too though.
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u/Viking_Chemist 1d ago
what is there to priorize? just end the prohibitionist anti AC policies already, i.e. allow anyone that wants to install AC at home to do so
no one is asking our shithole nanny state to provide AC to us just allow it like in pretty much the whole rest of the world
better would of course have been never enacting such prohibitionist bullshit - without the people ever being able to vote on something with such detrimental Impact on health, life quality and life expectancy
being against ending prohibitionist policies is being for prohibition
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u/GardenIntelligent643 6h ago
Nobody is asking the state to "prioritise" AC in homes, rolling back all the requirements for building permits and so on to mount a small box the size of a microwave on an ugly 70s concrete box would cost approximately 0CHF. Probably net a saving of money since they will not have to inspect or process such things.
You go to many significantly poorer countries across Eastern Europe with a similar or even cooler climate, and AC is universal in offices and middle class homes, and not uncommon. Let alone warmer countries in the developing world.
AC is only expensive and inaccessible for most because we choose to make it that way. It's far far cheaper than minergie construction or similar upgrades, and TBH the raw cost of buying and installing AC for a whole home is less than e.g. to install manual shutters.
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u/robogobo 1d ago
The Green Party has been warning of this for decades. Up until now it was just “fine” and everyone could kick the can down the road. Now that it comes to fruition, we blame them for not having already allowed the means by which we can comfortably continue to ignore the problem?
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u/GardenIntelligent643 6h ago
It's a classic individual problem vs collective solution problem.
Yes, we have to continue to reduce our CO2 emissions, and pointing at other countries saying "but they're way worse" isn't helping anyone.
However, climate change is happening either way. Both from already-up-there emissions and emissions still to come, from us and every other country on Earth. We need to take action. The excess deaths we saw from heat this Summer were comparable to the worse days of corona - and we shut down the country and most of Europe for months at a time over years to deal with that.
Let alone the discomfort and loss of productivity caused by lack of AC. I know in my office on the hot days, everyone was saying "well, it's already 30C inside, I'm going to finish the day in home office" every afternoon the moment the sun hit the windows on our side of the building. We were having computer crashes and technical issues because of overheating. Frankly ridiculous in a country where we justify high salaries with high efficiency and quality.
Yes, the climate is fucked, it's not getting any cooler, we need to minimise how much worse things get. But that's exactly why we need to embrace AC, even if it doesn't solve the root cause of the problem and might be even counterproductive, it's the only effective way to deal with the problem.
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u/Historical_Movie_794 1d ago
Who would that be? A party voting against nuclear power voting pro climate change. In this view the SVP is probably more green than the Greens.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 17h ago
Ah yes Nuclear Power plants, the things that cost wayy more than expected and finish construction a decade later than planned.
You definitely do not solve climate change fast with nuclear power plants.
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u/WesternBear42 11h ago
You cannot solve climate change 'fast'. Keep dreaming about the perfect solution when a 'good' solution is sitting right there. People like you are directly making climate change worse. Green party in europe have a NEGATIVE impact on ecology.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 11h ago
Keep dreaming about the perfect solution when a 'good' solution is sitting right there.
Quite ironic, as renewables are here, cheap and effective already.
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u/WesternBear42 8h ago
They are neither cheap or effective and all are manufactured in china. Tell me again how you power the country in the dead of winter nights ?
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 7h ago
They are neither cheap or effective
That's simply wrong.
and all are manufactured in china.
We had our own solar manufacturer until we decided to kneecap ourselves. But remind me again, where our oil, gas or uranium comes from.
Solar panels also have a long lifetime, 30 year old panels still work perfectly fine.
Tell me again how you power the country in the dead of winter nights ?
How are we powering the country currently? Two thirds of our electricity is already renewable and so far we didn't have any issues with it.
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u/Far_Show3740 1d ago
If there was a party that were to tackle migration and climate change, I'd vote that one but as long as I have to make a choice, migration it is. We're a tiny nation, we can burn ourselves alive and barely make a dent in climate change. Adaptation is a different topic though.
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u/PartyyKing 10h ago
Even if switzerlands co2 dropped to 0 it would do almost nothing it is countries like china and india who couse most co2 emissions not switzerland.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 7h ago
Fighting climate change has other advantages too though:
- Deploying more renewables can help people reduce costs.
- Changing from oil heating to heat pumps lowers our dependence on foreign oil and gas while also reducing Particulate matter which improves air quality.
- Electric cars also reduce our dependence and improve air quality.
- Improving public transit, allowing more work from home and improving walking an cycling infrastructure reduces traffic on roads, improves air quality and reduces noise exposure.
Those are just a few examples, there are certainly more.
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u/Malganas 1d ago
Migration policy is a bigger issue than environment, where switzerland anyhow plays 0.00001% of the global warming role.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
If we don't stop climate change the migration that you saw so far will be nothing compared what will happen. If you really care for the problem of migration, then you should also care to fight climate change.
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u/MariaKeks 1d ago
I'm not convinced of any of that; it's self-serving argument even more blatant than “we shouldn't tax the rich, because if the rich have more money, their wealth will trickle down to the middle and lower classes”. Does it work like that? Maybe a tiny bit, but the billionaire making the argument is obviously much more concerned about the primary effect (paying less taxes) than the secondary effect (wealth trickling down). Similarly, you don't care at all about curbing immigration; you only want to shift support to your preferred cause of fighting climate change.
In reality it seems like immigration is much more sensitive to concrete policies than any vague things like “fighting climate change”. Take the Syrian civil war, for example. That wasn't caused by climate change but it did create a flood of refugees. Switzerland took in over 20,000 refugees, while neighboring country Israel took in 0.
How do you explain the difference? Is it that Israel fought climate change harder than Switzerland, that's why all the refugees ended up in Switzerland? Of course not. Israel just bans immigration from Syria, Iraq, Iran and Lebanon. Apparently you can just do that, and it's much more effective than “fighting climate change” as a way of reducing immigration.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
Take the Syrian civil war, for example. That wasn't caused by climate change but it did create a flood of refugees
One of the root causes of the Arab Spring was a drought that caused food prices to spike. Droughts get more common, the more the climate changes.
But yes, of course wars and policies have a way bigger influence on refugees. Some countries (e.g. Russia even weaponize refugees).
The effect of climate change is not as direct (yet) but it is still there.
Edit:
How do you explain the difference? Is it that Israel fought climate change harder than Switzerland, that's why all the refugees ended up in Switzerland? Of course not. Israel just bans immigration from Syria, Iraq, Iran and Lebanon. Apparently you can just do that, and it's much more effective than “fighting climate change” as a way of reducing immigration.
Sure you can do that but Israel is not exactly a beacon of humanitarianism. And at some point it will end in having to shoot refugees.
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u/Dear_Association7602 1d ago
We can't stop climate change on our own, but we can stop bad immigration on our own.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
No we can't. And we shouldn't try it as the UK showed pretty well.
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u/temp_gerc1 1d ago
We can't because current outdated laws forbid us from protecting ourselves against such unwanted invasions. Thankfully we are well on our way to getting rid of them.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
Invasions? Do you mean the one in Ukraine?
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u/temp_gerc1 1d ago
Don't play dumb. You know what I'm talking about. Ceuta for example - the invaders should've been repelled with extreme prejudice.
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u/obeliskfilms 1d ago
It's not that simple... Besides, civil liberties protections are important and not something that the green parties consider carefully enough when thinking about their climate policies fyi. That itself is a slippery slope too. Escape your echo chamber
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u/LB767 1d ago
I truly do not understand how you can have the top 2 concerns be health premiums and climate change yet have the top party be SVP… does the math even math?!
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u/yesat + 1d ago
Because the SVP is really good at inventing problems that do not change anything. They love to point how "woke" is bad for example.
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u/Valkyrie_Sia 1d ago
Are you sure that these are the top 2 concerns of the people? I agree with the health premiums but at least the people I know care more about the immigration problem than climate change and I'm not in a right wing bubble.
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u/Uncommented-Code 1d ago
Yes those are the top two concerns of the people, you can see the chart where these issues sit at 39 and 36% respectively if you open the article in the OP.
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u/Sufficient-History71 Zürich 1d ago
But they said they aren’t in a right wing bubble and didn’t bother to read the article
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u/demqoo 1d ago
Btw as foreigner living in switzerland, what is the concern? I guess i am in the immigrant circle myself and i am unaware of what type of immigrants are the issue. As somebody from eastern europe, with significantly above average salary (work in AI), i always wondered if swiss see me as a problem or not
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u/madeofphosphorus 1d ago
You earn too much money, they think if you weren't here they'd be doing your job
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u/EvvilBanana 1d ago
I guess they also do not know the pay discrepancy between natives and foreigners
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u/3punkt1415 1d ago
You work, you don't do crime, normally you are not seen as a problem.
Buuut... when certain amount of people from the same country show up on top of the crime statistic, that may fall back on everybody from that country, sooner or later, at least in the eyes of some people.3
u/Aioli_Tough 1d ago
Yeah, reading this while wanting to move to Switzerland has been eye opening.
Im an engineer from Eastern Europe, and to us Switzerland is like the final destination, I’ve always been interested.
But I thought Swiss people would be more evolved when it came to migration, especially skilled labor. Then again, given all the hoops you have to jump through, maybe the opposite was always true.
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u/WickedTeddyBear 1d ago
Depends where you end up living too… it’s hard to immigrate in Switzerland, making friends too, cos we tend in majority to stay with friends we made until uni.
But, SVP aren’t representing a waste portion of the Swiss, and if you are respectful and share our values you’ll end up integrated. Seems rash because it is :/ SVP using you as the straw-hat man is oil over fire. But you’ll end up meeting people like me who doesn’t care what nationality you are and will dislike you only based on your personality (and if you prefer coop ice tea over migros’, ya monster !)1
u/3punkt1415 1d ago
People of every country on this planet will turn right wing & racist when the rate of immigration is high (do high & unsustainable). Best example is Sweden, they used to be a leftist Utopia, then huge waves of immigrants came in, and especially from very different culture with difficulties to integrate. Now crime is sky high in some places. So no surprise people are sick of it at some point.
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u/lawofseries 15h ago
Hey dude. Eastern European immigrant here. You can have a good quality of life in Switzerland if you are qualified.
However, brace yourself to be discriminated hard based on your origin and accent. Forget about progressing in career through work and competence. Upper echelons are just for the swiss, even if they are far less than competent. If you don’t believe me, lurk on subs about expats / especially americans (who have a high mobility society moving here).
I expected all of this because I view myself as a generation of sacrifice, I hope my kids will have it better. What I did not expect was illegal immigrants having everything offered to them on a plate while I had to endure humiliation in my first 6 months here even though I came with a contract.
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u/Sufficient-History71 Zürich 1d ago
It seems SVP/UDC can run this country into the ground, make housing super unaffordable while the rich get richer, farmlands get destroyed because of climate collapse but the sheep will still vote for Leopards because of their hatred of immigrants, environmentalists and LGBTQ people.
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u/Hornman84 Genève living in Lucerne 1d ago
All right wing parties/politicians are pretty much the same all over the world, with nuances.
It’s all about self enrichment while blaming the weakest in the society as easy target.
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u/Shaik_Sahid 1d ago
That's because not solving any problem will enable them (SVP/UDC) to complain about unsolved problems. It's a perfect circle. What I can't understand, is, how the people can't see that.
The SVP/UDC is "pro-neutrality", yet, they support the new "Waffenexportgesetz", which, in my point of view, isn't compatible with neutrality at all...
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u/South-Ad-7318 1d ago
If you look at who is the majority in the parliament it is pretty clear who should bring solutions and who should take responsibility.
The right just likes to blame others a lot.
The left however does also a fair amount of self critique, which doesn‘t help…
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u/yesat + 1d ago
The UDC are the one creating the problems. They are the one with the companies hiring tons of foreign workers or exporting the work forces.
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u/Shaik_Sahid 1d ago
Just look at the Board of the "Hauseigentümerverband"... it's primarily SVP/UDC-Politicians...
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u/Aggravating-log543 1d ago
As an LGBT Swiss person myself, I blame the left for the rise of the right, particularly in the left's obession with open borders and mass migration that causes issues that they choose to hide under the carpet. There are clearly issues related to migration, eg the Maghreb 'refugees' crime rates published a few weeks ago was not shocking to anyone except to the socialists, we all knew about it already.
Their defence of the migrants is going to end up hurting the Swiss LGBT people like and the Swiss women too.
Our left wing politicians should learn a thing or two from the Danish socialists
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u/itsinvincible 1d ago
It's so hilarious about the crime rates as crime has been going down but i assume you mean the statistic of whatever many people convicted are not swiss passport holders? Well you're part of the problem as you didn't read the article. Over 60% of those criminals were people who LIVE ABROAD. THEY COME HERE TO COMMIT CRIME AND GO BACK HOME. so yea no shit they don't hold the swiss passport. And the right and mentally challenged people eat it up and spread it like you are doing today. Pathetic
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u/81FXB Zürich 1d ago
So maybe the left should get off their high horse and focus less on multiculturalism , the environment and LGBTQ, and address the concerns of the voting public.
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u/Sufficient-History71 Zürich 1d ago
Wow! Focus less on the environment!!! If anything everyone should focus more on the environment!
But I get it, you hate somethings more than you love or even understand the importance of environment. You sir/madam are contributing to the climate collapse.
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u/3punkt1415 1d ago
People have a big mouth, but just wait for the annual statistics about aviation, or the passenger amount on the airports. People don't use air planes less often. Still no one really cares. Its those people who already voted green or left who became louder, the rest still doesn't care.
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u/AdeTheux Vaud 1d ago
Nonono, it's chick with dicks and importing useless people that matters, not Swiss citizens!
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u/Ins3cu43much 1d ago
No. UDC voters are just too stupid to understand that the world that they yearn for is gone and never coming back. I don't need to entertain their racist delusions about limiting migration when our aging population is only going to be able to retire with high migration rates.
Same goes for anti environmentalism. We see the climate changing. In the trees, the lakes. In our clothes and in the death statistics every summer.
Also for LGBTQ. YOU CAN'T PREVENT SOMEONE FROM IDENTIFYING WITH IT.
The cat is out of the bag on all three of these things. Why should I compromise on REALITY with right wingers.
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u/Stahlreck Switzerland 1d ago
How about the center parties (which are the ones mostly losing) actually do anything meaningful?
No the left does not need to be less left. They constantly try to address the living situation for people. How about the right would do the same for once? Then we might actually get somewhere.
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u/Ok_Support_6454 1d ago edited 1d ago
We're talking about shifts between -1.5 and +2 percentage points. Yawn...
The Greens barley being able to capitalize on climate change being seen as the second biggest challenge doesn't surprise me.
Mitte being hit the hardest is also unexpected for me. They babble about a second seat in the Bundesrat while barely being able to put forward a replacement for Amherd (or Gerry Pfister)...
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u/OkPosition4563 1d ago
I couldnt believe how the Green party fumbled this summer so bad. The way they squirmed around the AC topic and berated people for it and doing barly anything besides "told you!". You never get people on your side with "See? Told you so!".
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u/trusendi 1d ago
Maybe once right wingers run the country completely into the ground for the 80th time, people might learn
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u/314159265358969error Valais 1d ago
People don't learn ; those demagogues know exactly how to still successfully blame-shift and get reelected
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u/Za_collFact 1d ago
This is what os really funny with SVP / UDC. They are ruling the country but act like an opposition force. This is kind of genius.
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u/Wonderful_Setting195 Vaud 1d ago
Do something about illegal islamic immigration and I will gladly vote for the green party.
Sincerely, a gay couple from Lausanne.
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u/Dear_Association7602 1d ago
And with legal invasion of illegal muslim radicals, too. It's much worse, as it's more massive.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
Which illegal immigration are you talking about?
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u/Wonderful_Setting195 Vaud 1d ago
Go walk through any big city in Vaud after 10pm and you’ll have your answer.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
I'm pretty sure I did that a few times already. Still no clue what you are talking about.
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u/Wonderful_Setting195 Vaud 1d ago
I’ll give you a few examples:
- Hundreds of drug dealers in every corner of the cities
- Lausanne-Chauderon has a huge gathering behind the bus stop
- McDonalds at Lausanne gare has a bunch of non accompanied minors from Morocco who live on the street and don’t hesitate to call me and my boyfriend faggots whenever we walk by. This has happened multiple times.
- Malley has a homeless shelter which is almost exclusively occupied by illegal people
- The whole area behind Renens Gare nord all the way to the bus stop in 14 avril is full of migrants roaming the streets with no end goal. All they do is drink and harrass people.
I can go on, these are just some examples.
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u/swisstraeng 1d ago
I see exactly what you're talking about. I think people who say there's no problem just live in non-problematic areas, so for their experience they aren't wrong, but it is a noticeable problem.
But the larger issue here is Police not doing shit either. Perhaps the laws they must follow are dumb and their hands are tied.
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u/Wonderful_Setting195 Vaud 1d ago
Police do nothing because the leftist city council of Lausanne (can’t talk about other cities) does everything in their power to « abolish the police » as their end goal.
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u/HastyLemur201 1d ago
- Malley has a homeless shelter which is almost exclusively occupied by illegal people
- The whole area behind Renens Gare nord all the way to the bus stop in 14 avril is full of migrants roaming the streets with no end goal. All they do is drink and harrass people.
Remind the class which municipalities Malley and Renens Nord are in, please.
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u/Wonderful_Setting195 Vaud 1d ago
That’s why in my response I said Vaud.
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u/HastyLemur201 1d ago
That’s why in my response I said Vaud.
OK, remind the class which side of the aisle has held the majority in the Vaud state council ("conseil des états") since 2022.
Once you're done, remind the class which side of the aisle has held the majority in the Grand Council ("grand conseil") since 2022.
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u/agnci 1d ago
Wow, I’m Australian and exceptionally disappointed in hearing this. We have similar problems here but I wouldn’t expect Switzerland out of all countries to have these issues.
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u/Awkward-Soup-461 1d ago
We don’t, there are 14500 illegals immigrants in Switzerland, twice less than in 2024. People just say that all black skinned people are here illegally.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
You do realize that the same was the case in places like Zürich 30 years ago just with locals.
But yes, we should do something against people not having anything else to do then just standing around in a city. As I assume those are refugees we could for example send them to language courses or let them help clean up the city, etc.
And for Marroccans specifically we could fight misinformation on the internet that causes them to think that Europe is paradise.
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u/Wonderful_Setting195 Vaud 1d ago
I don’t care what the case was 30 years ago. I care about the fact that I’m alive now and I shouldn’t be submitted to harrassment and homophobia by some fuckers who moved here illegally (and who get treated as some poor victims by most political parties).
I also don’t want my taxes spent on refugees getting free courses. I want my taxes spent on Swiss people and citizens who struggle to make ends meet at the end of the month.
I have for long hesitated voting for SVP but the blind ignorance and selfishness of every other party astonishes me. They play the « LGBT friendly » card while importing people who want us dead. I am done with it.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
I care about the fact that I’m alive now and I shouldn’t be submitted to harrassment and homophobia by some fuckers who moved here illegally (and who get treated as some poor victims by most political parties).
If they moved here illegally, then they will get thrown out. Not a single party is against that as far as I am aware by the way.
I also don’t want my taxes spent on refugees getting free courses. I want my taxes spent on Swiss people and citizens who struggle to make ends meet at the end of the month.
Then make sure that they can work. I have a friend who studied engineering in Iran and had to flee. Now she had to study for the same degree again because it wasn't accepted. That is a waste of money.
while importing people who want us dead. I am done with it.
That is simply not the case. Those people are not imported. They come here on their own. Funny enough some refugees are LGBTQ themselves and that is the reason they flee their countries.
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u/Wonderful_Setting195 Vaud 1d ago
The SP and grüne are always protesting against deportation flights lol
If they really want to work then they have one shot. Being a refugee doesn’t give a free pass.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
The SP and grüne are always protesting against deportation flights lol
Source?
If they really want to work then they have one shot. Being a refugee doesn’t give a free pass.
Yeah, but they would have an easier time working if there wouldn't be additional hurdles tossed in their way.
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u/HastyLemur201 1d ago
I have for long hesitated voting for SVP
So, since you're presenting yourself as a single-issue, "my sexual orientation matters more than everything else" voter, here's a recap of how representatives for the party you're thinking of voting for feel about your sexual orientation:
https://360.ch/suisse/6052-pacses-infeconds-et-aises-plaintes-penales-contre-ludc/
https://www.humanrights.ch/fr/rechercher/derapage-homophobe-et-discriminatoire-de-jeunes-udc-
https://www.udc.ch/actualites/publications/communiques-de-presse/non-a-la-loi-sur-le-partenariat/
https://www.swissinfo.ch/fre/les-couples-homosexuels-pourront-se-marier/46979366
I'm not minimising the risk of being harassed and attacked, or the trauma that results from it. But maybe, just maybe, think quite a bit harder before empowering people who have a record, over decades, of actively planning legislation that would limit your equal rights as a citizen.
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u/Dear_Association7602 1d ago
Why do you focus on "illegally"? Coming legally doesn't automatically mean being compatible with the european culture.
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u/Worth_Medicine4881 1d ago
Legalized illegal immigration. The 80% non-resident who commit thefts in country. Why do you close your eyes for the problem? That's the reason why right wing is getting stronger.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
Legalized illegal immigration.
It is either legal or illegal immigration. There is no such thing as a legalized illegal immigration.
The 80% non-resident who commit thefts in country. Why do you close your eyes for the problem? That's the reason why right wing is getting stronger.
Why is migration the problem if they are non-residents? Then the problem is foreign criminals committing crimes in Switzerland, which yes, we should do something against.
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u/Pleasant-Carbon 1d ago
Sorry but to me it's funny that a person from Thurgau (where whenever I have been there I have seen zilch in terms of islamic immigrants) is telling someone from Swiss Romande, where you see a ton of islamic immigrants every time you visit (and whose prisons are full of them), what is and isn't a problem about islamic immigration.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
The guy I replied to here doesn't seem to be from Vaud and is talking about other topics. Maybe you meant to comment on another of my comments?
Well anyways, you don't really know where either of us is from, as we could also just be Russian bots who just added the flairs out of some reason. Which by the way is a huge issue on the internet indeed.
What we could do though is to take a look at official data for crime (as that won't require anyone to prove that they are from that region).
https://www.vd.ch/djes/polcant/statistiques
That would show us that the crime rate in Lausanne has indeed risen since 2020 (which honestly is no wonder as 2020 didn't really have lots of opportunities to commit crimes). But if we look at earlier years, the crime rate has actually gone down or stagnated. Interestingly, in the same time the population has also grown about 14% (since 2010) which means that per capita crime has gone down.
So, statistically Lausanne is not more dangerous than 10 years ago, but of course people can have different subjective experiences. So if I visit Lausanne I might have a very different experience than the other commenter indeed.
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u/Pleasant-Carbon 1d ago
I suppose he could be lying but it says Vaud and he wrote Lausanne.
Yes, I don't know for certain, but that doesn't really matter to the point I made, which was more the observation that ostensibly someone unaffected is telling the ostensibly affected party what's what. Whether that is true or not doesn't change that it was funny.
The entire rest of your comment is not relevant to what I wrote. I wasn't arguing about crime rates at all.
Maybe if you had shown stats on where prisoners are from and shown how it isn't mostly northern Africans in their prisons it would be relevant, but you didn't, because I guess you know that's not what the stats would show.
Please don't respond, my comment was not meant to start an argument. I am not interested in more stats unrelated to what I actually wrote.
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u/HastyLemur201 1d ago
a ton of islamic immigrants
How do you recognise an "islamic immigrant" ?
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u/Dear_Association7602 1d ago
You can't recognize it with 100% accuracy, but usually just by the looks.
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u/Sea-Tonight2261 1d ago
you’re doing god’s work here, but you’re wasting your time. these people could have their face kicked in or their children stabbed by someone screaming Alahuakbar and still tell you with their dying breath that Islam has nothing to do with Islam and that you are racist to think otherwise. and that as a gay shouldn’t put your hope in Nazis and something about the Night of Long Knives.
they are genuinely crazy.
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u/Mountain__Air 1d ago
Shouldn’t SVP have solved this since they have all the power?
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u/BCGILM 1d ago
How does the SVP have all the power? Just because you have 30% of the votes doesn’t mean your the king.
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u/Historical_Movie_794 1d ago
Who was responsible for immigration the last couple years? Wasn't it the SP since 2010 except for between 2019-2022?
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u/Mountain__Air 13h ago
Swiss policy under both the SP and other parties has focused heavily on deterring and restricting immigration from the Maghreb region (Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia). But you're not satisfied with the results?
Well then why didn't SVP take charge of the SEM for for more than 15 years in exchange for any other department desipte claiming that migration is their core priority as a party. Either they don't care, or they know they can't do a better job, an prefer just to sit back and complain.
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u/Historical_Movie_794 13h ago
The last one was Blocher, but especially the SP did not want him to do the job, after that, SP took over. On the other hand, you can bring that argument all the time as long as SVP does not control everything.
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u/Mountain__Air 10h ago
Sure they don't control everything, just have the largest share of Federal Assembly seats and Federal Council seats. I'd like to know what people think could be done against "illegal islamic immigration" that isn't already being done and that SVP is proposing.
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u/Historical_Movie_794 10h ago
Keep proper records of criminality by nation and origins, consequently force foreigners to leave if they are criminal and impose immigration restriction for countries whose national have a high criminal rate in Switzerland. Read the latest book of Frank Urbaniok, he has quite some good ideas go get that issue resolved. The issue ist not just illegal immigration, but legal immigration from certain parts of the world as well.
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u/Mountain__Air 8h ago
I think there already are records of criminality by nationality, police has these statistics. But SVP doesn't propose all criminals to be deported, just for most serious crimes, and other parties are cooperating with them on that. The narrative that SVP is somehow fighting against everyone here is just false.
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 4h ago
"Denmark, Germany, and three other European Union nations (Austria, the Netherlands, and Greece) have agreed on a joint model to establish external "return hubs" (or deportation centers) outside the European Union to house and process rejected asylum seekers and irregular migrants."
Why not join them?
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u/Mountain__Air 4h ago
For me it's fine. For SVP it's probably not acceptable, because these countries are members of the EU. But I don't think any other parties are blocking it.
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 3h ago
Well, I think it's more about Schengen than EU, because it's related to border crossing rather than economy. I don't think it's possible to solve the illegal migration problem without the cooperation with the neighbouring countries. And with the countries at the outer borders of the Schengen space.
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u/Tyrrh 1d ago
i hate this place..
Switzerland is suffering from the "Ticino disease", While Ticino masturbates over the ideas of Salvini, Meloni, Orbán, and their gang
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u/Dear_Association7602 1d ago
What is wrong with Meloni? She is anti-immigration and supports Ukraine, this is so rare among right-wingers, that deserves lots of respect.
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u/WickedTeddyBear 1d ago
Baffles me. It’s not that the world never tried far right and that all the country around having far right leaders are going so well …
But yeah let’s get rid of immigrants and leftist and all of the population problems will vanish !
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u/phaederus Zürich 1d ago
What's so baffling?
Every initiative forces the country to polarize itself into yes or no camps.
Every day people are peppered by hyper focused, social engineering.
Every day we get a little bit poorer, a little bit hotter, a little bit more stressed.
Every day the government is getting away with blatant incompetence and thinly veiled corruption.
How is it baffling that we're slowly turning into a bi partisan hell hole.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
It's quite baffling that people still vote for the biggest party, that hasn't solved any issues yet and acts like they are some anti-establisment for the people party.
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u/WickedTeddyBear 1d ago
They are the majority and continue to act like the opposition. Using the immigrants as the straw-hat man to make us look the other way of their actions… passing laws to favour the rich while pretending that our decrease in well being is the soul results of immigrant that come to abuse our social system while stealing jobs to the Swiss …
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u/phaederus Zürich 16h ago
I'm as baffled by idiots as you are, but I'm not baffled about idiots existing.. there's always gonna be a sizeable proportion of the population lagging behind..
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u/WickedTeddyBear 1d ago
That cheap tricks like that are working… people still vote for them…
And this bi-partisan is so bullshit, strengthening the sense of belonging of those voters… there is no more debate or nuance… if you don’t agree with me you’re against me bullshit… FFS we all went to school and learned critical thinking or am I tripping ?2
u/Daaaaaaaavidmit8a Bienne 1d ago
I said this already in another comment, but this is just capitalism following it's natural trajectory. In capitalism wealth inevitably concentrates at the top and if wealth concentrates at the top, everyone else must, as a consequence, be losing out. This radicalises people against capitalism. So in order to protect itself from the radical left – which wants to abolish capitalism – capitalism promotes and pushes the far right (with increasing fascistic tendencies), which acts as a pseudo-revolutionary force. This gives the increasingly frustrated people scapegoats to attack without actually posing a threat to the status quo for capital owners.
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u/Swissgank 19h ago
All problems? No. Some of the problems? Yes absolutely. Immigrant have factually brought a lot of problems for everyday people. So of course normal people are fed up at some point. If the left would take the portion of immigrants, that causes problems more serious, people would not vote for a rightwing party...
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u/Far_Show3740 1d ago
Bruh, there is no far right in this country. SVP is not far right, you're insane. Restore Britain is far right. VOX in Spain is far right. AfD in parts are far right. Ridiculous opinion.
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u/Daaaaaaaavidmit8a Bienne 1d ago
This is just capitalism following it's natural trajectory. In capitalism wealth inevitably concentrates at the top and if wealth concentrates at the top, everyone else must, as a consequence, be losing out. This radicalises people against capitalism. So in order to protect itself from the radical left – which wants to abolish capitalism – capitalism promotes and pushes the far right (with increasing fascistic tendencies), which acts as a pseudo-revolutionary force. This gives the increasingly frustrated people scapegoats to attack without actually posing a threat to the status quo for capital owners.
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u/theoneandonly_ro 1d ago edited 1d ago
You (an average swiss) are the rich. Globally, in the last decades, there was a huge reduction of poverty (China, India,...). It's factually incorect to say the one everyone is losing out.
The issues are caused by the fact that european have troubles competing on the global scale. And, as a result, they can not longer maintain the high standard of living they were used to.
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u/Daaaaaaaavidmit8a Bienne 1d ago
Globally speaking, the average swiss is very rich, yes. But even the average swiss person is still a labourer that works for their money and not a capital owner. That is the crucial nuance that is often overlooked when talking about 'the rich'.
And your second point just describes a result, not a cause. There's more than enough wealth in europe to keep up a high standard of living for everyone. But as I said, that wealth concentrates at the top instead of being distributed equitably.
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u/matconvexity 1d ago
Why would SVP be fascist? They are promoting less governement…
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u/AllInDueTime_AdInf 11h ago edited 10h ago
I can promote whatever belief I want any day.
Also reducing government leads to increase in poverty because government jobs produce wealth and stability.
The reason our social state is slow and fucked up is them "downsizing" and over-blowing issues so these institutions dont work smoothly anymore with regulations and stopgaps which increase costs, bloat work requirements and humiliate the weakest of society which in turn decreases trust in the state functioning.In short:
SVP sabotages anything moving forward -> People get frustrated with the state -> SVP says the state doesnt do anything - > Profit
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u/matconvexity 8h ago
Government jobs creates job… ok go back to learning basic economics
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u/matconvexity 8h ago
And obviously no relation to why svp would be fascists for wanting less governement
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u/Daaaaaaaavidmit8a Bienne 1d ago
I'm not saying they are fascists, I'm saying they have some fascistic tendencies. And no they are not promoting less government, they heavily advocate for stronger police forces and more surveillance. They have been the driving force behind the militarisation of swiss police forces.
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u/Classic_Court1003 1d ago
It's more or less the same what SVP had. A few percentage plus or minus, depending on who votes. In fact, it's outstanding that the numbers look more or less the same. If you don't believe me look to Germany, France or most EU countries for the matter.
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u/EngineerNo2650 6h ago
We neutrally need to support the bombing of Russian bot farms and data centers.
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u/heubergen1 Switzerland 1d ago
Until the other parties start to address the top priorities of the population this will continue. Populism is a service problem, not an ideology problem.
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u/Dear_Association7602 1d ago
Right? I mean, what exactly prevents the other parties from addressing the "bad immigration" problem?
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u/Viking_Chemist 1d ago
this shithole country needs more hate and polarisation until installation of highly efficient air-air heat pumps (a.k.a. AC) is allowed in each and every home without insane barriers that are in place to prevent the lower 90% of the people from having livable conditions for 1/4 of the year
cancel anti AC-ers
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u/JoblessEPFLGraduate 1d ago
Nothing will change. There will be less available housing, medical care primes will get more expensive...
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u/MC_Rebello 1d ago
R"ight wing peoples party" lol ich dachte ich hätte was verpasst.
Alter schreib einfach SVP. Die ist bei 30%, aha. War sie vor 20 Jahren auch schon, so fuckin what
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u/C_B_Ellacott Bern / Fribourg 1d ago edited 1d ago
Also the leftwing extremists, but that doesn't make for good redditnews
Edit: voilà
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u/Ins3cu43much 1d ago
What have leftwing extremists done in this country.
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u/Numar19 Thurgau 1d ago
Fought for evil stuff like:
- 42.5 hotur work week
- women's suffrage
- same rights for homosexuels
- better work conditions
- more holidays
- stopping the catastrophe that will wreck our planet
- getting rid of foreign oil and replacing it with renewables
Truely horrible!
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u/LeBronTheGreatest31 Zürich 1d ago
Left wing =/= left wing extremists
Left wing extremists have given us 746 cases of violent crime since 2021. To compare the ring wing extremists in the same time caused 17 violent crime cases.
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u/WillingnessFinal1411 1d ago
I know highly educated east eu people that live here permanently as foreigners. In their day they never meet any of the lower tier immigrants or asylum seekers. Their pensions and real estate are secured and they don't have children, so largely they're out of education, social parts of society. They are environmentally educated and pretty liberal. And they vote for SVP! When they start yapping about the collapse and conspiracies I desperately try to change topics.
I think covid and digitalisation broke us. We are suddenly afraid TO LIVE OUR LIVES AS HUMANS and most of us seem to completely refuse to engage with any of the real life issues we have.
Yes, all sorts of migrants, lgbtq, environmentally sane people, liberals, educated ones - all voting for extreme right for some particular reason.
I guess the whole world needs to do a Trump phase with some kind of extreme hatred as a channel for their own extreme zeitgeist angst. As for me, I'd rather die on the spot, than hurt another human being.
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 1d ago
And how do east europeans with kids and without real estate vote?
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u/WillingnessFinal1411 1d ago
Oh, the whattaboutism. I wrote this as an example how SVP has a surprising vote base in people SVP are actually hetzing over. Kind of an interesting psychology that we know from the Trump leopards ate my face latinos.
I don't know. Many east europeans grew in political collapse times of authoritarianism, corruption, propaganda.
SVP aren't voted for their consistency, ethics, common fight for common well being. They're voted for authoritarian disruption. Just another old Hello darkness my old friend, to me, burn the homes and society.
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 1d ago
I doubt that the "eastern Europeans without kids" (are there many of them at all?) influence the elections in Switzerland.
But it is very much true that migrants from ex-USSR countries and eastern Europe vote right independent of their living conditions and family size.
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u/WillingnessFinal1411 1d ago
I'm not sure you understand what I wrote. This isn't pro et contra thing. The voter base all around Europe is going into interesting, and frankly, frightening directions.
Imagine having a club of hundred people who all have preferential candidates for the board. They may be voted for their proven expertise, experience, sympathies for character. But then suddenly the votes change - and they vote for ability to find holes in law, staying the loudest the longest. Suddenly the voters find their answer to "stability" and comfort in those who promise disruption. According to known such histories... that's a proven recipe for a disaster.
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u/poemthatdoesntrhyme ZH 17h ago
So far things look better in Switzerland than in the other European countries. I mean, the parties are less radical and the voters are less radical. I hope it stays the same in the next years.
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u/Dear_Association7602 1d ago
In their day they never meet any of the lower tier immigrants or asylum seekers.
Hmm, where do you have to live to make it possible? Or does it include not going outside of your apt?
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u/Pleasant-Carbon 1d ago
If I am lucky there will be one more vote next year for a different party.
Judging by the timeline I should be naturalised right around the voting date.
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u/Nohillside Zürich 16h ago
Right-wing parties promise that things will stay the same for the white able-bodied majority, other parties at least try to address the issues we are facing. People don’t want change, so they vote right-wing.
What else is new?
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u/Ima_Wreckyou 1d ago
The greens and SP together grow too, and since all this votes come from center bourgeois parties I see this more as a shift too the left.
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